DON Posted June 21, 2014 Share Posted June 21, 2014 Shitty, but Skillsy wasn't a "realistic' option; but, who knows, your favourite Coach will likely be gone within 2-3 years and Big Hal would need to pay his dues eh? (but Doug Weight didn't did he?) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheDriveFor25 Posted June 21, 2014 Share Posted June 21, 2014 Sorry, not to harp on this Markov thing, but our D wasn't strong last year. We weren't one of the top D teams in the league and we have arguably the best goalie in the world. A top 4 of Subban Gorges Markov and Emelin gets you to the playoffs, but to the cup? Probably not. So why waste money on Markov when you can replace him and bring in a Moulson or Vanek or Stastny ... you give yourself a better chance to win. Markov at 6 mil isn't a step backwards, but it certainly isn't a step forward either.. There's a better chance that Tinordi progresses to be a reliable defender than there is of last years same defence bringing you to the cup finals next year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KoRP Posted June 21, 2014 Share Posted June 21, 2014 If Bergevin wants to move up in the draft, what is his general idea of this team moving up? Is it that we have too many of one thing, say small winger prospects, so we trade one or two to get a better player, or better fit for what we need in the system? Or does he have a specific player in mind? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DON Posted June 21, 2014 Share Posted June 21, 2014 Specific player or two they are really high one I would guess. A forward or d-man? who knows? If is a d-man, only couple likely options in mid-1st, Roland McKeown & Haydon Fleury; if a forward could be any of 5 or 10 likely candidates. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dlbalr Posted June 21, 2014 Share Posted June 21, 2014 If Bergevin wants to move up in the draft, what is his general idea of this team moving up? Is it that we have too many of one thing, say small winger prospects, so we trade one or two to get a better player, or better fit for what we need in the system? Or does he have a specific player in mind? The report last year was that he had a deal ready to go from 25 to 11. If true, then the general idea may be that he might try again to get near the top-10. Of course, the Habs don't have three second rounders like they did last year (they have none) which likely would complicate things. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlueKross Posted June 21, 2014 Share Posted June 21, 2014 If any this is actually true--- Since we don't have a second round choice, we can go the prospect route .Say one that we like and probably will not get through waivers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dlbalr Posted June 21, 2014 Share Posted June 21, 2014 If any this is actually true--- Since we don't have a second round choice, we can go the prospect route .Say one that we like and probably will not get through waivers. That list of prospects that would need to get through waivers is pretty short though, Dumont and Tokarski and neither of those would be enough to justify another team swapping 1st's with the Habs. Everyone else is on ELC's and waiver-exempt. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlueKross Posted June 21, 2014 Share Posted June 21, 2014 That list of prospects that would need to get through waivers is pretty short though, Dumont and Tokarski and neither of those would be enough to justify another team swapping 1st's with the Habs. Everyone else is on ELC's and waiver-exempt. How far do you got to move up? Tokarski doesn't get you a few slots? Looked pretty good in the playoffs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dlbalr Posted June 21, 2014 Share Posted June 21, 2014 How far do you got to move up? Tokarski doesn't get you a few slots? Looked pretty good in the playoffs. What's Tokarski worth? A mid-round pick at best probably given his inexperience and size. 26 + a mid-round pick (in the 120-150 range) doesn't move a team up even a single spot in most drafts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Chicoutimi Cucumber Posted June 21, 2014 Share Posted June 21, 2014 Sorry, not to harp on this Markov thing, but our D wasn't strong last year. We weren't one of the top D teams in the league and we have arguably the best goalie in the world. A top 4 of Subban Gorges Markov and Emelin gets you to the playoffs, but to the cup? Probably not. So why waste money on Markov when you can replace him and bring in a Moulson or Vanek or Stastny ... you give yourself a better chance to win. Markov at 6 mil isn't a step backwards, but it certainly isn't a step forward either.. There's a better chance that Tinordi progresses to be a reliable defender than there is of last years same defence bringing you to the cup finals next year. I too hate to keep the discussion off-thread, but I can't resist replying. Your argument is that our D was middling last season, so we might as well allow Markov to walk and make it one of the worst in hockey. This makes no sense at all. We need to improve the D. That can be done from within - albeit not overnight - as Beaulieu and Tinordi come along. But we won't improve it by letting our #2 man walk away; quite the reverse. Beyond that, I am a longstanding advocate of building from the red line out, which takes the view that defencemen are always more valuable than forwards. You've got 12 forwards and only 6 defencemen, and defencemen drive the all-important transition game. If we have to have weaknesses somewhere, I'd rather have 'em up front. You just cannot win hockey games with a cruddy defence corps - look at Edmonton. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KoRP Posted June 21, 2014 Share Posted June 21, 2014 Sportsnet claims that Gionta won't be back with the Habs next season, was on last night's Hockeycentral, or whatever they call it.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlueKross Posted June 21, 2014 Share Posted June 21, 2014 What's Tokarski worth? A mid-round pick at best probably given his inexperience and size. 26 + a mid-round pick (in the 120-150 range) doesn't move a team up even a single spot in most drafts. Wasn't he promoted as won at every level, won the Calder Cup? I thought that is what was said. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Machine of Loving Grace Posted June 21, 2014 Share Posted June 21, 2014 Montreal has a top 10 defence in the league, top three in the east. The defence struggled at times due to Emelin needing time to get back into playing shape and Gorges being hurt. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Chicoutimi Cucumber Posted June 21, 2014 Share Posted June 21, 2014 Montreal has a top 10 defence in the league, top three in the east. The defence struggled at times due to Emelin needing time to get back into playing shape and Gorges being hurt. It's not bad...just not Cup-worthy. Every single team we played in the playoffs built their game plan on the vulnerability of our D to an aggressive forecheck, and it finally caught up to us in the semi-finals. Were we to add another top-4 defenceman, and add a quality W to replace Vanek, we'd like vault into bona-fide "contender" status. Sadly, many posters here are determined to weaken rather than strengthen our blueline, which puzzles me Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dlbalr Posted June 21, 2014 Share Posted June 21, 2014 Sportsnet claims that Gionta won't be back with the Habs next season, was on last night's Hockeycentral, or whatever they call it.... Earlier today, his agent was quoted as saying that Gionta has no inclination to leave and that talks continue. Wasn't he promoted as won at every level, won the Calder Cup? I thought that is what was said. Those things are all true. But, he's a 5'11 goalie in a league that's predispositioned towards taller netminders. He also has little NHL experience and will be a backup goaltender wherever he goes. Is a team going to take a hit on their first rounder to bring in a different backup goalie, particularly one with those elements as negatives? I don't see that happening. Here are the teams that are a few spots ahead of the Habs: 19. Tampa Bay (Bishop signed, Lindback RFA, Gudlevskis/Vasilevskii to push for the #2 job) 20. San Jose (Niemi/Stalock signed for next year, Stalock as the backup for two years) 21. Buffalo (Neuvirth/Enroth signed, Hackett RFA) 22. Pittsburgh (Fleury/Zatkoff signed) 23. Colorado (Varlamov/Berra signed long-term) 24. Anaheim (Andersen/Gibson will be the duo, they're letting Hiller walk and traded Fasth to make room) 25. Boston (Rask signed, Johnson UFA but could be back, Svedberg/Subban in the wings) Of those teams, who might want Tokarski? Pittsburgh maybe but that's it. If they want to upgrade their backup, they'd prefer to go to free agency over trading down four spots in the first round to get Tokarski. Yes, Tokarski played well in the playoffs, but his trade value is still low, as is the case with almost all backup goalies. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Machine of Loving Grace Posted June 21, 2014 Share Posted June 21, 2014 It's not bad...just not Cup-worthy. Every single team we played in the playoffs built their game plan on the vulnerability of our D to an aggressive forecheck, and it finally caught up to us in the semi-finals. Were we to add another top-4 defenceman, and add a quality W to replace Vanek, we'd like vault into bona-fide "contender" status. Sadly, many posters here are determined to weaken rather than strengthen our blueline, which puzzles me I'm of the opinion that Beaulieu will develop into that top four defenceman, with Tinordi staying as the third pair. The defensive market is extremely shallow which means the cost of a top four is more expensive than it has ever been. Best to just develop internally. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlueKross Posted June 21, 2014 Share Posted June 21, 2014 Earlier today, his agent was quoted as saying that Gionta has no inclination to leave and that talks continue. Those things are all true. But, he's a 5'11 goalie in a league that's predispositioned towards taller netminders. He also has little NHL experience and will be a backup goaltender wherever he goes. Is a team going to take a hit on their first rounder to bring in a different backup goalie, particularly one with those elements as negatives? I don't see that happening. Here are the teams that are a few spots ahead of the Habs: 19. Tampa Bay (Bishop signed, Lindback RFA, Gudlevskis/Vasilevskii to push for the #2 job) 20. San Jose (Niemi/Stalock signed for next year, Stalock as the backup for two years) 21. Buffalo (Neuvirth/Enroth signed, Hackett RFA) 22. Pittsburgh (Fleury/Zatkoff signed) 23. Colorado (Varlamov/Berra signed long-term) 24. Anaheim (Andersen/Gibson will be the duo, they're letting Hiller walk and traded Fasth to make room) 25. Boston (Rask signed, Johnson UFA but could be back, Svedberg/Subban in the wings) Of those teams, who might want Tokarski? Pittsburgh maybe but that's it. If they want to upgrade their backup, they'd prefer to go to free agency over trading down four spots in the first round to get Tokarski. Yes, Tokarski played well in the playoffs, but his trade value is still low, as is the case with almost all backup goalies. Point noted--- i just thought he had to have gained some MOJO with the run. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Chicoutimi Cucumber Posted June 21, 2014 Share Posted June 21, 2014 I'm of the opinion that Beaulieu will develop into that top four defenceman, with Tinordi staying as the third pair. The defensive market is extremely shallow which means the cost of a top four is more expensive than it has ever been. Best to just develop internally. Yup, I totally agree (and have said so in other threads). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neech Posted June 22, 2014 Share Posted June 22, 2014 Montreal has a top 10 defence in the league, top three in the east. The defence struggled at times due to Emelin needing time to get back into playing shape and Gorges being hurt. That's higher than I'd put them. The jury's still out on Emelin, but so far he doesn't look much like a #3 to me, and on many nights this year looked awful, or overmatched in key playoff games (except for the Bruins series). Gorges at #4 is generous. We need a genuine second-pairing defenseman, and I'd be willing to part with either of those players or valuable forwards to acquire one. If Beaulieu develops into the player we want him to be while Markov is still around, we'll have a heck of a skilled, exciting top-4. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DON Posted June 22, 2014 Share Posted June 22, 2014 Yemelin now has played 164games in NHL, or just 2 seasons under his belt and had no training camp, no off season training last summer (just rehab); so I wouldn't be writing him off yet. So I expect more from him this year and who knows how good Subban can be, Tinordi and Beaulieu both should be bit stronger, more prepared for NHL as well. Gorges will be same and big question is ol #79, but if he and Weaver are signed, I don't think defense will as bad as many are predicting, or calling non-cup worthy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeLassister Posted June 22, 2014 Share Posted June 22, 2014 20. San Jose (Niemi/Stalock signed for next year, Stalock as the backup for two years) I read somewhere this week that Stalock and Niemi would fight for #1 spot at camp, that Stalock is quickly becoming a contender for #1. Had Niemi as my goalie last season in Fantasy pool. Won't take a chance on him this year... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dlbalr Posted June 22, 2014 Share Posted June 22, 2014 I read somewhere this week that Stalock and Niemi would fight for #1 spot at camp, that Stalock is quickly becoming a contender for #1. Had Niemi as my goalie last season in Fantasy pool. Won't take a chance on him this year... Yep, he'll get a look as the starter. At either rate, he's signed for a couple of years and Niemi is signed for this season. They don't really have a goalie opening even though their next-in-line guy (Sateri) went to the KHL last month. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Habsfan Posted June 23, 2014 Share Posted June 23, 2014 Yemelin now has played 164games in NHL, or just 2 seasons under his belt and had no training camp, no off season training last summer (just rehab); so I wouldn't be writing him off yet. Agreed. I am expecting a little more from Emelin this year. Hopefully with a full summers rest and a proper training camp, he'll be able to start the season on the right foot! Don't get me wrong though. I'm not expecting him to put up 15 goals and 45 points, I just want him to continue playing solid defense and doling out bone crunching body checks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Habsfan Posted June 23, 2014 Share Posted June 23, 2014 RDS.ca just announced that apparently Markov has just signed a 3 year deal @ 5.75$million per year.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sim.on Posted June 24, 2014 Share Posted June 24, 2014 As it stands, Boston is hard up against the cap and will be facing a penalty for bonuses, giving them even less space. Unless they make a move, they don't have the room to sign Iginla. I know its wishful thinking but that would be an awesome upgrade at RW, better than Vanek imho, and given his age, the length of the contract wont be unbearable. If MB plays the cards right, we still have the dough to ink Subban, Eller, Iggy and Gio. I know alot of people around here don't want Gio back but at the right price I think he is a great fit on the 3rd line Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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