sakiqc Posted February 12, 2010 Share Posted February 12, 2010 My LMFAO are rare so I dont waste them on undeserving targets! Really, the whole panic and raising of the Rejean Houle scarecrows because of this? Dominic Moore for a 2nd rounder, which Buffalo also did a year ago? Gimme a break. Darcy Regier is a great GM. So if Gauthier pulls the same move, it should be a good sign!!! There. Feel better now? I'll compare him to Mr. Houle if he trades Carey Price. Wasn't it Houle's first move trading away Patrick Roy? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sir_Boagalott Posted February 12, 2010 Share Posted February 12, 2010 I don't think Moore is good enough for even a bad GM to add him on in the attempt to cover the loss of Andrei and Cammalleri. It looks to me like he was acquired to fill the center position because one of our centers is going to be traded. As I doubt we'd trade a 2nd for a C that will likely be no better than Metro or Laps, I think it's one of our top 2 Cs that's going, more likely Plekanec than Gomez. The problem with this theory is that Gauthier just said that he was trying to sign Plekanec. Yeah. No matter what's about to happen, I'd prefer to use Maxwell, Trotter, White or switch someone to C before giving up a 2nd for Moore. Well thats what I always said and what bummed me out with Bob. Talks need to happen now, initial talks at least and Guathier has offered the olive branch. If the olive branch is way to small for Plex now is the time to trade him. i.e. if Gauthier talked to his agent and learned Plex wants 5.5+/yr, an amount the Habs cant afford then he has to moved. The Habs cant loose him for nothing. You cant trade all of your good impending UFAs away all the time, but trading Plex if he wants an insane contract has to happen. Any Bulldog staticians out there? What are their FO%? Moore has won 55.8% of his draws (462 taken), which is fairly decent for a 1.1 mil guy. Another good thing is that I highly doubt there will be any bigging wars for his service so the fact that he is a UFA is kind of a non issue. If Guathier trades Metro for a 2nd the Habs are probably better off. Other teams will most likely be interested in Metro in the off season. I'm pretty sure Bob screwed Philly up when he snagged Metro and I bet they still want him back. I can undstand replacing Metro with a younger Moore but still the trade is kinda perplexing. If they really wanted Moore they could have easily just waited and signed him in the off season and kept the pick. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KoZed Posted February 12, 2010 Share Posted February 12, 2010 I can undstand replacing Metro with a younger Moore but still the trade is kinda perplexing. If they really wanted Moore they could have easily just waited and signed him in the off season and kept the pick. We're in a chase for the playoffs. It is a rental. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sir_Boagalott Posted February 12, 2010 Share Posted February 12, 2010 (edited) I dont consider Moore a rental though. Do you honestly think Guathier will get into a bidding war trying to resign Moore? Theres a lot of 3rd-4th line guys like Moore that are highly under rated and under appreciated that can be signed reasonably to dirt cheap. It looks to me like Guathier just picked up the one he wanted who he thinks will fit the Habs the best. I'm sure there will be at least 1 other team after Metro (Philly) so Guathier picked up somebody he wants and avoided getting into a bidding war. I highly doubt Moore was picked up as a rental for some silly playoff push with 0 plans to resign him. If that is actually the case, somebody shoot Gauthier. I'm pretty sure if Guathier is willing to give up a 2nd then Moore is definitley in his long term plans or he's a useless GM. Also consider Bobs contract talks with Lats before he was traded. Has Laps been talked to aswell? If Laps like Lats wants way more than anybody other than themselves think they are worth then maybe Moore could be a cheap replacement for Laps. Laps is still young and could still pan out to be a 20-25 50-55 pys guy wanting 2+ mil/year, but Moore could probably be resigned for 1 mil. Apparently I need to get this on auto complete: The Habs desperately need great deals on players. Moore could be one of these deals, and Laps probably wont want to sign to cheap so he could be replaced by Moore next year and 1 of the current AHLers gets a spot. Laps got a 400K raise last time, and if he wants another one, at 1.2 mil they way he has played this year he wouldnt be worth it. However both players crappy years should help Guathier sign them for less. Edited February 12, 2010 by Sir_Boagalott Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PMAC Posted February 12, 2010 Share Posted February 12, 2010 Altogether now, take a deep breath, exhale. Good feel better now? This was Moore for a 2ND--NOT Plexs or Halak for a bag of pucks. Relax, this is a reasonable move for veteran depth on an injury plagued team. It should add some grit and make us a little more difficult to play against. :hlogo: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prime Minister Koivu Posted February 12, 2010 Share Posted February 12, 2010 Regardless of subsequent moves this deal is garbage. A second round pick for a third line rental player with poor stats is a bad deal! Why call up PK? Do we really need to rush and hurt more of our prospects? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin Posted February 12, 2010 Share Posted February 12, 2010 My LMFAO are rare so I dont waste them on undeserving targets! Really, the whole panic and raising of the Rejean Houle scarecrows because of this? Dominic Moore for a 2nd rounder, which Buffalo also did a year ago? Gimme a break. Darcy Regier is a great GM. So if Gauthier pulls the same move, it should be a good sign!!! There. Feel better now? We'll never know for sure, but my gut feeling is that, had Bob pulled this trade, you would have been villifying him incessantly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saskhab Posted February 12, 2010 Share Posted February 12, 2010 BTW, the Habs had two 2nd round picks in 2011. David Fischer, Bob's 2006 first rounder, is not going to be signed (he's been brutal). We'll get a compensation 2nd rounder (50th overall) in 2011 as a result. Basically, the Panthers are gambling that this pick might be better than 50th. It might be worse if the Habs can finish 11th or better in the NHL next year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Posted February 12, 2010 Share Posted February 12, 2010 Moore has been brought in to do the job that Metro and lapierre are not doing. Playing defense, killing penalties and winning faceoffs. Whether you want to beleive it not it is an upgrade over those 2. Metro has been solid on the PP, but neither of guys do the job. There are other moves coming, I'm guessing Subban is up to actually play for someone otherwise maybe a dman is being moved today as well. Maxwell going down is fine, he didn't do anything, there are others in the same boat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bar Posted February 12, 2010 Share Posted February 12, 2010 The sky is falling, the sky is falling hahaha... I dunno if Moore was worth a 2nd in an off year, but I agree to the thoughts that Metro is breaking down. Moen + Moore + Laps (if he remembers his role), would be a decent third line, one I'm kind of excited about. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brobin Posted February 12, 2010 Share Posted February 12, 2010 Metro has better plus minus then Moore. I don't see why I should expect him to give us a solid defensive line. Moore has been brought in to do the job that Metro and lapierre are not doing. Playing defense, killing penalties and winning faceoffs. Whether you want to beleive it not it is an upgrade over those 2. Metro has been solid on the PP, but neither of guys do the job. There are other moves coming, I'm guessing Subban is up to actually play for someone otherwise maybe a dman is being moved today as well. Maxwell going down is fine, he didn't do anything, there are others in the same boat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toronthab Posted February 12, 2010 Share Posted February 12, 2010 If we trade a 2nd rounder (not this draft, next draft) for Moore, Gauthier is crucified. What if he would have traded Metropolit or Lapierre for an equivalent pick? He'd still be crucified. What if he did nothing? He'd be crucified. Firstly, while there are some gems to be found in the 2nd round, I think we shouldn't blow this out of proportion. A 2nd rounder which is a year and a half away from being used, means we'll have plenty of time to trade for a similar pick to replace it. Second, from the limited times I've seen Moore play, and the bits of information I have about him during his time with the leafs, I do believe he isn't a player who is paid to score points, as much as he is to be a hard working, experienced vet. Depth is very important, expecially come the playoffs, and we can certainly use a guy of his caliber as a centerman in our bottom 6 forwards. Don't get me wrong, I don't think it's the best trade, but I don't think it's as bad as everyone is making it out to be. If there is indeed another trade coming, it likely means we're giving up more roster players than we're receiving, and Gauthier was not alright with giving the AHLers a bigger role than they currently have. Let's see what happens. Maybe the sky isn't falling? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Chicoutimi Cucumber Posted February 12, 2010 Share Posted February 12, 2010 Funny how people differ...a few days ago this board was full of discussion about acquiring Kovalchuk, a top-10 player in the entire league, and a fair number of posters were holding forth on what a horrible idea it would be to give up a Gorges + picks for this 'rental player.' We've also seen Brian Burke ridiculed for trading high picks for a 22-year-old elite forward who will form part of his core for years to come. Now we go and acquire a bottom-6, dime-a-dozen rental player for a 2nd round pick (which is what the much-reviled Bob Gainey paid for ROBERT LANG, by the way ) and we have people saying it's 'only' a 2nd rounder, and therefore this is a good move. Either picks are valuable or they're not. If they are, then this move is dumb. The end!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Posted February 12, 2010 Share Posted February 12, 2010 He played on a team that doesn't score. I am not syaing he is a shutdown guy, but they need another center to kill penalties. You play Pleks and Gomez in every situation every night, they get burned out. He does win faceoffs, close to the top of the league last year if i remember correctly, He also hustles alot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saskhab Posted February 12, 2010 Share Posted February 12, 2010 Funny how people differ...a few days ago this board was full of discussion about acquiring Kovalchuk, a top-10 player in the entire league, and a fair number of posters were holding forth on what a horrible idea it would be to give up a Gorges + picks for this 'rental player.' We've also seen Brian Burke ridiculed for trading high picks for a 22-year-old elite forward who will form part of his core for years to come. Now we go and acquire a bottom-6, dime-a-dozen rental player for a 2nd round pick (which is what the much-reviled Bob Gainey paid for ROBERT LANG, by the way ) and we have people saying it's 'only' a 2nd rounder, and therefore this is a good move. Either picks are valuable or they're not. If they are, then this move is dumb. The end!! Picks have value, I just don't think people realize we have a few of them. Moore got a 2nd rounder last year. So by past precedent, guys that are worth 2nd rounders include: Christobal Huet as a rental, Robert Lang for one season (and he was desperately moved by Chicago as they had cap issues), and Dominic Moore as a rental. There is no real equivelancy here, just that 2nd rounders are generally regarded as something of moderate/acceptable value. Josh Gorges is a top 4 d-man signed for $1.1m, that's a very strong asset. Chris Campoli last year fetched a late 1st rounder, Gorges should be seen as having similar value on his own. Believe it or not, in the cap age, players usually acquire more value the closer they are to having their contract expire. It seems like it should be the opposite, but it almost always is the case. I didn't think Burke was dumb for the Kessel trade, BTW. And like I said, we have an extra 2nd rounder on the way when David Fischer isn't signed out of college. I'm not sure if that's a 2010 or 2011 2nd rounder, I don't know when that kicks in for us. We don't have a lot of cap space, and Moore is about as good as we could get as a result. We needed a 3rd line centre, this was pretty obvious. Our first two lines consistently compete, but we have a HUGE drop off on the 3rd and 4th. Metropolit has provided value on the PP, but not at even strength or on the PK. Moore will provide just that. Plus, he instantly becomes our top faceoff man, and moves Lapierre to the wing. Our centre depth (still our weakest position, despite good performances from our top 2 guys) has improved. Cullen just went for a 2nd and a defenseman in Picard. That makes sense considering Moore was for a 2nd. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Posted February 12, 2010 Share Posted February 12, 2010 Yea, i still think something is up to clear some salary, my guess is a defenseman. They have like 9 or something. Unless Gorges is game time decision it makes no sense to call up Subban. That was a good move by Ottawa, Cullen is a solid player Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saskhab Posted February 12, 2010 Share Posted February 12, 2010 Yea, i still think something is up to clear some salary, my guess is a defenseman. They have like 9 or something. Unless Gorges is game time decision it makes no sense to call up Subban. That was a good move by Ottawa, Cullen is a solid player Mara could be moved for cap room. He's making $1.6m and the team should have faith in O'Byrne now to play full time. Problem is that having depth D isn't a bad thing for the playoffs, but that's why Mara would have some value on the market (much like Moore did). Bergeron is out until mid to late March, so the Habs would have only 6 healthy D for that period, with Carle out for the year as well (the #8). Weber and Subban I guess would be the first call ups. Maybe Subban is up to see if they can have faith in him just in case. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Posted February 12, 2010 Share Posted February 12, 2010 Yea, i know it just seems strange to make 1 move that puts them more over the cap without having another plan. I'll assume they know there is a cap. Moore isn't a bad pickup if other things are happeming, but i didn't see him as a must have guy right now unless something else is brewing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KoZed Posted February 12, 2010 Share Posted February 12, 2010 We'll never know for sure, but my gut feeling is that, had Bob pulled this trade, you would have been villifying him incessantly. We'll never know for sure, but my gut feeling is that, had Bob pulled this trade, you would have been praised him incessantly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin Posted February 12, 2010 Share Posted February 12, 2010 We'll never know for sure, but my gut feeling is that, had Bob pulled this trade, you would have been praised him incessantly. A second rounder for Moore? If that trade is in a vacuum and not part of something bigger, ANY GM has just been raked. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saskhab Posted February 12, 2010 Share Posted February 12, 2010 A second rounder for Moore? If that trade is in a vacuum and not part of something bigger, ANY GM has just been raked. Yeah, I remember everyone raking Darcy Regeir for trading a 2nd rounder for Moore last year. Wait, they didn't? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin Posted February 12, 2010 Share Posted February 12, 2010 Yeah, I remember everyone raking Darcy Regeir for trading a 2nd rounder for Moore last year. Wait, they didn't? Perhaps quibbling, but this is, shockingly enough, not last year! Seriously, though, Moore's output has been lower AND he's going to be UFA. (I know he was UFA last year, but that was one year younger.) I don't understand why there are attempts to equate the Moore of last season and this one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saskhab Posted February 12, 2010 Share Posted February 12, 2010 Perhaps quibbling, but this is, shockingly enough, not last year! Seriously, though, Moore's output has been lower AND he's going to be UFA. (I know he was UFA last year, but that was one year younger.) I don't understand why there are attempts to equate the Moore of last season and this one. Even though fans are quick to turn on players, league GM's aren't as easily swayed by slumps and hot streaks when it comes to acquiring players. One year later, some people don't think Moore is really all that different of a player. He has relatively the same market value.... the one thing that can change that most in a year to year case is injury, and Moore has been healthy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dalhabs Posted February 12, 2010 Share Posted February 12, 2010 How can a thread about a minor trade like this reach 7-8 pages? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lazy26 Posted February 12, 2010 Share Posted February 12, 2010 How can a thread about a minor trade like this reach 7-8 pages? Because it shows that Gauthier is an inept GM and will bring about the destruction of the Habs and possibly the world as we know it. Honestly, I don't see how this is such a big deal to people. 1) We don't know what else PG has going on, 2) We don't know what impact Moore will have, 3) We don't know if that pick will end up being a bust, and 4) We will likely have an additional 2nd round pick anyway (from the Fischer no-sign, right?). Granted there's no obvious "win" here, but I don't think this moves merits the mass hysteria and criticism I've seen. Just my opinion. I'm going to wait and see what else transpires before I get all up in arms. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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