DON Posted March 1 Share Posted March 1 1 hour ago, Lanes World said: In his three seasons with the Habs, Kirby Dach has played 117 out of a possible 246 games. More than i thought he played. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lanes World Posted March 1 Share Posted March 1 11 hours ago, DON said: More than i thought he played. I wonder if he will go back to the same surgeon that did his knee before Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Chicoutimi Cucumber Posted March 1 Share Posted March 1 If it is indeed the same knee (has that been confirmed?) it would explain his general suckage this season. Probably it was never 100%. A classic case of a player whose potential is ruined by injury: damaged goods. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prime Minister Koivu Posted March 1 Share Posted March 1 25 minutes ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said: If it is indeed the same knee (has that been confirmed?) it would explain his general suckage this season. Probably it was never 100%. A classic case of a player whose potential is ruined by injury: damaged goods. It has indeed been confirmed that it is the same knee Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Chicoutimi Cucumber Posted March 1 Share Posted March 1 3 minutes ago, Prime Minister Koivu said: It has indeed been confirmed that it is the same knee I feel badly for the guy - and a bit badly for ripping on him now and then as this season ground on. He clearly wasn't right, and now his considerable potential is likely ruined. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commandant Posted March 1 Author Share Posted March 1 We said the same about Markov in 2011, when he was coming off of three ACL tears, two in the same knee and one in the other. And that's 13 years ago.... surgeries improve all the time. Markov came back and was still one of the best defencemen in the NHL. It will take time, but Dach can come back from this. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lanes World Posted March 1 Share Posted March 1 Dach is a lot more lanky than Markov. I’m not sure that plays into injuries but it does make sense. Markov was an impact player before being hurt too. On a cup team, Dach is a 3rd line winger Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commandant Posted March 1 Author Share Posted March 1 2 minutes ago, Lanes World said: Dach is a lot more lanky than Markov. I’m not sure that plays into injuries but it does make sense. Markov was an impact player before being hurt too. On a cup team, Dach is a 3rd line winger The point is that whatever potential Dach had before the injuries (and it was more than a 3rd line winger) is still there. It will take time. He was playing like a top 6 centre before he hurt his knee the first time. I don't think we should say what his max is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lanes World Posted March 1 Share Posted March 1 You’re right. He’s just not THAT young of player Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commandant Posted March 1 Author Share Posted March 1 On a totally different point from Dach.... this whole ideal of "on a cup team" is kinda b.s..... the Hawks second line centre, on all 3 cup teams, were three different players and were amongst the bottom 10 number 2cs in the league, they still won. There are many ways to build a cup winner, and in a cap world there are no perfect teams. One position can be weaker if all the other positions are filled in properly. There is no perfect cup team. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lanes World Posted March 1 Share Posted March 1 Chicago had a team of all stars/HOF. Voids could be covered with the talent of others Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commandant Posted March 1 Author Share Posted March 1 Just now, Lanes World said: Chicago had a team of all stars/HOF. Voids could be covered with the talent of others Yes, that was the point.... there is no one way to build, "on a cup team" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lanes World Posted March 1 Share Posted March 1 I’m just saying Chicago’s team was a power house. Suzuki is a #1 centre, but not the super elite number one centre that can make up for a number 2 centre, who is actually a number 3 centre/wing. lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Chicoutimi Cucumber Posted March 1 Share Posted March 1 I appreciate Commandant's point that Dach can recover. On the other hand, Markov was an elite-level player who arguably used his incredible hockey smarts to compensate for the loss of quickness caused by some combo of aging and blown knees. Dach's game was based on being hard on the puck - which requires lower-body strength and strong skating. We shall see, but I wouldn't bet the rent on ever seeing 2022-23 Dach again. 3 minutes ago, Lanes World said: I’m just saying Chicago’s team was a power house. Suzuki is a #1 centre, but not the super elite number one centre that can make up for a number 2 centre, who is actually a number 3 centre/wing. lol We absolutely require a legitimate #2 C behind Suzuki. Preferably a 1A. I don't have the stomach to endure another decade of "oh, maybe we can cobble together something serviceable at C" (remember the Pleks-Desharnais years down the middle?). Slick Nick is exactly what you say he is, and I thank the hockey gods every time he laces up his skates for us, but he's not that kind of dominant, powerhouse force. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lanes World Posted March 1 Share Posted March 1 Mcdavid is a free agent in 2026?….15 million👍 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commandant Posted March 1 Author Share Posted March 1 Go look at Jonathan Toews point totals throughout his career. Suzuki is almost at the same level and improving every year AND has the selke level two way game too. They arent that far apart. Toews was a very good #1 who got overrated as this super elite player he never was. Suzuki on the other hand still seems underrated league wide. And Chicago wasnt all all-stars at every position. Their goaltending was also not something people say "goalie on a cup team" about either. But again this wasnt about Dach, it was just saying that "cup teams" arent the same, nor are they perfect in every position in the cap era. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Habs Fan in Edmonton Posted March 1 Share Posted March 1 26 minutes ago, Commandant said: Go look at Jonathan Toews point totals throughout his career. Suzuki is almost at the same level and improving every year AND has the selke level two way game too. They arent that far apart. Toews was a very good #1 who got overrated as this super elite player he never was. Suzuki on the other hand still seems underrated league wide. And Chicago wasnt all all-stars at every position. Their goaltending was also not something people say "goalie on a cup team" about either. But again this wasnt about Dach, it was just saying that "cup teams" arent the same, nor are they perfect in every position in the cap era. Good points, Toews best year was 81 points when he was 30. Suzuki is on pace for that this year and also plays a 2 way game. Give me 2 Suzuki's at 1 and 2C any day of the week. Maybe Hage can be that player if Dach doesn't recover. Way too early to tell if he can be that player. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commandant Posted March 1 Author Share Posted March 1 2 minutes ago, Habs Fan in Edmonton said: Good points, Toews best year was 81 points when he was 30. Suzuki is on pace for that this year and also plays a 2 way game. Give me 2 Suzuki's at 1 and 2C any day of the week. Maybe Hage can be that player if Dach doesn't recover. Way too early to tell if he can be that player. Three cups were won with Toews and the following number 2 Cs 2010 Dave Bolland 28 points in 39 games (injury).... 16 points in 22 playoff games 2013 Dave Bolland 22 points in 35 games (shortened season), 6 points in 18 playoff games. 2015 Brad Richards 37 points in 76 games, 14 points in 23 playoff games. You don't need 2 Suzukis. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Habs Fan in Edmonton Posted March 1 Share Posted March 1 38 minutes ago, Commandant said: You don't need 2 Suzukis. Perhaps not but it would be awfully nice. I certainly agree there is more than 1 way to build a cup winner. It would be nice to give Suzuki a little more support up the middle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commandant Posted March 1 Author Share Posted March 1 12 minutes ago, Habs Fan in Edmonton said: Perhaps not but it would be awfully nice. I certainly agree there is more than 1 way to build a cup winner. It would be nice to give Suzuki a little more support up the middle. Of course you always want to make the team better. If thats up the middle, great. If thats another #1 defenceman, great. If thats a superstar goalie, great. Whatever you can do to make your team better, you have to do. I just dont agree with ______ cant be (insert position) on a cup winner. Cause i dont think thats true. I think its safer to say, ideally ____ isnt your #2c and you get someone better in that position. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hab29RETIRED Posted March 1 Share Posted March 1 8 hours ago, Commandant said: We said the same about Markov in 2011, when he was coming off of three ACL tears, two in the same knee and one in the other. And that's 13 years ago.... surgeries improve all the time. Markov came back and was still one of the best defencemen in the NHL. It will take time, but Dach can come back from this. There is a difference though. Markov was already an elite player and a seasoned pro when he got hurt. He had the confidence and proved that he was a high caliber highly intelligent NHL defenceman. Dach hasn’t prove. He is a legit top 6 player and he hasn’t had an opportunity to show that he is consistent night to be a legit top 6. It’s not just the injury issue with Dach. We still need to figure out what he is, and he still needs to prove he is a legit top sixer. I’m not saying legit top six centre, becuase I think he’s lost too much development time with injuries to develop into a second line centre. I tho k the best we can hope for is that he becomes a legit 2nd line winger. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commandant Posted March 2 Author Share Posted March 2 42 minutes ago, hab29RETIRED said: There is a difference though. Markov was already an elite player and a seasoned pro when he got hurt. He had the confidence and proved that he was a high caliber highly intelligent NHL defenceman. Dach hasn’t prove. He is a legit top 6 player and he hasn’t had an opportunity to show that he is consistent night to be a legit top 6. It’s not just the injury issue with Dach. We still need to figure out what he is, and he still needs to prove he is a legit top sixer. I’m not saying legit top six centre, becuase I think he’s lost too much development time with injuries to develop into a second line centre. I tho k the best we can hope for is that he becomes a legit 2nd line winger. The other side of that coin is that Dach is a lot younger and has room to improve. Markov was already in his prime. None of.that changes the fact that knee surgery isnt a death sentence for a career like the Bobby Orr days. The surgery today is even better than Markovs time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commandant Posted March 7 Author Share Posted March 7 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commandant Posted March 7 Author Share Posted March 7 If Guhle could be back in a couple weeks, I'd deal Savard for sure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hab29RETIRED Posted March 7 Share Posted March 7 1 hour ago, Commandant said: If Guhle could be back in a couple weeks, I'd deal Savard for sure. I’d deal Savard regardless if we can get at least a 3rd. I’d drive him to the airport if we could get a ride 2nd (I’m in Calgary - habs should be here today😁, and will be going to the game tomorrow)! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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