Signing Marc Bergevin, new Habs GM

[sbhatt]

CBC just reported that Dudley's out clause allows him to leave 30 days after the Leafs' last regular season game, so he can join the Habs tomorrow and Burke can't do a thing to stop it.

[Machine of Loving Grace]

CBC just reported that Dudley's out clause allows him to leave 30 days after the Leafs' last regular season game, so he can join the Habs tomorrow and Burke can't do a thing to stop it.

This is gentleman's agreement really. Plus Dudley likely won't burn bridges in the league unless Burke was a prick to him.

[Peter Puck]

Dudley "is said" to be pro-scout/player development guy and very good at that and not amateurs scouting per say.

http://www.thespec.c...ft-implications

Quote:

Primarily, Dudley has been deeply enmeshed in Toronto’s draft plans and has extensively scouted all the top prospects, including Nail Yakupov, Mikhail Grigorenko, Alex Galchenyuk and Filip Forsberg.

[Bostonhabs]

http://www.thespec.c...ft-implications

Quote:

Primarily, Dudley has been deeply enmeshed in Toronto’s draft plans and has extensively scouted all the top prospects, including Nail Yakupov, Mikhail Grigorenko, Alex Galchenyuk and Filip Forsberg.

And what scout on the planet has not checked these guy's out? lol to funny

[The Chicoutimi Cucumber]

I wonder what Burke would do in this instance? Would he politely wait until after the draft, or grab his man and let the other GM lump it?

[DON]

http://www.thespec.c...ft-implications

Quote:

Primarily, Dudley has been deeply enmeshed in Toronto’s draft plans and has extensively scouted all the top prospects, including Nail Yakupov, Mikhail Grigorenko, Alex Galchenyuk and Filip Forsberg.

Timmins seems one of best on draft day and Dudley may have a valued opinion, but "likely" more to do with possible trades and not draft prospects specifically; but if he is hired at all, it wont be as Amaueur scout, but i really know dick-all about him.

Just dont see a quick hire of this guy as that important for draft.

[sakiqc]

What about giving us Dudley right now in exchange for swapping the #3 and #5 picks?

We don't need the #3 pick anyway to pick the #1 U.S. Dman and captain of the U-18 National Team Jacob Trouba

[bbp]

What about giving us Dudley right now in exchange for swapping the #3 and #5 picks?

We don't need the #3 pick anyway to pick the #1 U.S. Dman and captain of the U-18 National Team Jacob Trouba

To go along with Tinordi, Beaulieu, Ellis... exc... I'll pass. I want a forward. Who are our best forward prospects? Do we have anyone who will be top line material? I don't really think so. Not without a surprise.

Please don't trade down. We need young forwards way more then defencemen (and yes people say draft BPA, but Gally is the guy we should be looking for! He will be the BPA by the time its our turn.)

[thib46]

I thought someone wrote that the CBA does not allow for any compensation for management type people on a team. If that is correct, Leafs get nothing and if Dudley wants to come to Montreal and his contract allows for it, then nothing for Mr. Burke to do except be upset.

[Peter Puck]

Timmins seems one of best on draft day and Dudley may have a valued opinion, but "likely" more to do with possible trades and not draft prospects specifically; but if he is hired at all, it wont be as Amaueur scout, but i really know dick-all about him.

Just dont see a quick hire of this guy as that important for draft.

My point is that Dudley is viewed as an elite judge of talent. No we are not hiring him as an amateur scout. But there is a reason Toronto is so worried about him jumping to the Habs before the draft. He has been directly involved with their amateur scouting and has been extensively scouting top amateur prospects. This is why his opinions will be a valuable addition to those of Timmins'. These two guys go back a long way and have a lot of respect for each others' opinions.

[dlbalr]

I thought someone wrote that the CBA does not allow for any compensation for management type people on a team. If that is correct, Leafs get nothing and if Dudley wants to come to Montreal and his contract allows for it, then nothing for Mr. Burke to do except be upset.

That is correct. However, a team (MTL) could in theory make a trade with the team they're getting the guy from (TOR) that is slightly in their (TOR) favour as a way around it.

[DON]

My point is that Dudley is viewed as an elite judge of talent. No we are not hiring him as an amateur scout. But there is a reason Toronto is so worried about him jumping to the Habs before the draft. He has been directly involved with their amateur scouting and has been extensively scouting top amateur prospects. This is why his opinions will be a valuable addition to those of Timmins'. These two guys go back a long way and have a lot of respect for each others' opinions.

Sure i get ya.

Burke will whine about anything, like a spoiled kid. Toronto is perfect place for him.

I still disagree about Dudley and draft and see the rush as an attempt to get mgmt all in place ASAP, so coach hiring, UFA-RFA contract and July 1st are all sorted out and make sure all are on same page.

What does that Larry Carriere guy do? Is he a AGM?

[dlbalr]

What does that Larry Carriere guy do? Is he a AGM?

Right now, he is the Asst. GM (he was unofficially interim GM before last week).

[Commandant]

I thought someone wrote that the CBA does not allow for any compensation for management type people on a team. If that is correct, Leafs get nothing and if Dudley wants to come to Montreal and his contract allows for it, then nothing for Mr. Burke to do except be upset.

Yup.

Not to mention we lost 3 coaches and an assistant GM to Tampa, and we never whined about not getting any compensation for them.

Also remember the word is Dudley has been working the Leafs draft board for 2 months now... that means his knowledge is a lot more extensive than just the first round pick, he'll know most of the Leafs entire list and who they are looking for in every round.

[DON]

Yup.

Not to mention we lost 3 coaches and an assistant GM to Tampa, and we never whined about not getting any compensation for them.

Also remember the word is Dudley has been working the Leafs draft board for 2 months now... that means his knowledge is a lot more extensive than just the first round pick, he'll know most of the Leafs entire list and who they are looking for in every round.

Burke didnt sign a smart contract with Dudley, not the first time he fooled up, i say screw him it is a business isnt it? Next time he will not include consultants not under contract or "free agent" management personnal, be a good but tough lesson for Braniac to learn, i have no sympathy.

Why would Timmins care who Leafs want (very minor advantage)? After first several players or 1st round, no one knows who will be left nor what the other 28 teams want or will pick? And the Leafs are no draft gurus are they?

I know it is a big ol boys club with lots of under the table agreements, but Bergevin might as well start by pissing off Burke, i am good with that.

[Commandant]

The advantage it might give is knowing we can trade down and get more assets and still get the player we want if we are picking after the leafs.

[DON]

The advantage it might give is knowing we can trade down and get more assets and still get the player we want if we are picking after the leafs.

But is that really enough to get worked up over? Leafs screwed up, live and learn.

As i said, you still aint got a clue what the other 90% of teams are doing/gonna do/pick in the crap-shoot, so really, odds are it will amount to dick-all risk and more that Burke wants camera or air time to rant, when he really should be out of a job by now and just another err on his part. As bad as Gauthier was portrayed, he does not even come close to Burke's record of ineptness.

[Commandant]

Well thats just it, Burke wants to rant and rave in front of some cameras. Never found a Camera he didn't like.

[BCHabnut]

After watching Mcdonagh in the playoffs, I am so glad Gainey and Ghost are long gone!

[illWill]

After watching Mcdonagh in the playoffs, I am so glad Gainey and Ghost are long gone!

I'm afraid that we are doomed to be reminded of that trade for the next 15 years.

[Kiwihab]

Burke didnt sign a smart contract with Dudley, not the first time he fooled up, i say screw him it is a business isnt it? Next time he will not include consultants not under contract or "free agent" management personnal, be a good but tough lesson for Braniac to learn, i have no sympathy.

Why would Timmins care who Leafs want (very minor advantage)? After first several players or 1st round, no one knows who will be left nor what the other 28 teams want or will pick? And the Leafs are no draft gurus are they?

I know it is a big ol boys club with lots of under the table agreements, but Bergevin might as well start by pissing off Burke, i am good with that.

But is that really enough to get worked up over? Leafs screwed up, live and learn.

As i said, you still aint got a clue what the other 90% of teams are doing/gonna do/pick in the crap-shoot, so really, odds are it will amount to dick-all risk and more that Burke wants camera or air time to rant, when he really should be out of a job by now and just another err on his part. As bad as Gauthier was portrayed, he does not even come close to Burke's record of ineptness.

I don't agree with you at all on this. A month ago, most people on these boards were saying one of the big problems with Gauthier was his lack of class (firing Coaches and Assistants just before games, trading players during games etc)

You are suggesting that the first thing Bergevin should do as a new GM is take Dudley from the Leafs when they have asked us not to until after the draft (a reasonable request if he has been heavily involved in their draft planning) I know you can argue its just a business and the Leafs should suck it, but I'm sure you could argue the same way for the Cammalleri trade which most of us hated the way it was done. I dislike the Leafs as much as anyone, but I would like the HAB's to be classy and respect their wishes in this case.

[BlueKross]

Burke didn't make a mistake by not locking up Dudley. Dudley would never have signed on unless he had an out. Frankly, it would be classless to take Dudley before the draft. Be thankful, you are getting him for next year.

[DON]

I don't agree with you at all on this. A month ago, most people on these boards were saying one of the big problems with Gauthier was his lack of class (firing Coaches and Assistants just before games, trading players during games etc)

You are suggesting that the first thing Bergevin should do as a new GM is take Dudley from the Leafs when they have asked us not to until after the draft (a reasonable request if he has been heavily involved in their draft planning) I know you can argue its just a business and the Leafs should suck it, but I'm sure you could argue the same way for the Cammalleri trade which most of us hated the way it was done. I dislike the Leafs as much as anyone, but I would like the HAB's to be classy and respect their wishes in this case.

Screw that, stick it too them, just business and class aint got nothing to do with it; but like i say Dudley aint real important for draft anyways and likely more important for July 1st dealing.

Again, it was numbnuts Burke who should of read over contract prior to signing Dudley and price to pay for having a lame duck director of player development.

I loved the way Cammalleri was shown the door, that was just too funny and one of highlights of year for me; just a super trade and cant wait to see how Holland does in Hamilton this fall and Calgary should suck next year and that 2nd round pick will likely be fairly high (if not used in trade by then).

[hankhab]

In my mind, taking Dudley before or after the draft, its not a big concern. Trevor Timmons has shown himself to be an excellent judge of young talent, I don't think Bergevin will need Dudelys opinion on draft eligible players. Where this organization really needs help is in the scouting and judgement of its own and other teams prospects, so we are better prepared when it comes to trades involving such players, so we don't get consistantly burned in giving away young talent (McDonough, Latendresse, Grabovsky, Ribero, etc) and getting very little in return. This is what has hurt this team more than anything else in recent years. I'm hoping a guy like Dudley will help out a lot in that department. Burke hasn't publicly whined about this yet (at least I don't think he has), so if we have to wait for after the draft, then so be it, I guess. If not, too bad Burkie. Anyhow, I'm sure Toronto will be able to keep unearthing those excellent prospects either way (not), they still have about 100 assistant gms, don't they?

[DON]

In my mind, taking Dudley before or after the draft, its not a big concern. Trevor Timmons has shown himself to be an excellent judge of young talent, I don't think Bergevin will need Dudelys opinion on draft eligible players. Where this organization really needs help is in the scouting and judgement of its own and other teams prospects, so we are better prepared when it comes to trades involving such players, so we don't get consistantly burned in giving away young talent (McDonough, Latendresse, Grabovsky, Ribero, etc) and getting very little in return. This is what has hurt this team more than anything else in recent years. I'm hoping a guy like Dudley will help out a lot in that department. Burke hasn't publicly whined about this yet (at least I don't think he has), so if we have to wait for after the draft, then so be it, I guess. If not, too bad Burkie. Anyhow, I'm sure Toronto will be able to keep unearthing those excellent prospects either way (not), they still have about 100 assistant gms, don't they?

I think the refusal to deal away any UFAs at any deadline year after year, only to watch Souray/Kovalev/Strait/Koivu/Pouliot/ etc all walk for nothing on July 1st, along with nickle and diming the draft picks to add role players, like Sopel/Mara/Moore, has been killer.