Habs sign Sebastian Aho to offer sheet

[Habber31]

52 minutes ago, tomh009 said:

 

We don't know that yet what Plan B (or C, or D) is. Gardiner, Gostisbehere, Laine, something else altogether?

"UFA forwards" 

[DON]

1 hour ago, Habber31 said:

The biggest issue is not having a Plan B

Oho was Plan B, the 90+ point Point kid was Plan A

But agree, he should have some 'reasonable' plan...that doesnt include trying 40yr old d-men or washed up forwards.

42 minutes ago, ehjay said:

what about all the players that got no contract and med bills?

or players that have injuries that "come back" after playing days?

CTE?

Addiction?

All union items to deal with, go to court over and factor in agreement with NHL.

[tomh009]

35 minutes ago, Habber31 said:

"UFA forwards" 

 

Why do we specifically need a "UFA forward" -- who would likely be overpaid anyway relative to the value he brings?

[Commandant]

1 hour ago, Habber31 said:

As far as UFA forwards go, there was no plan B. 

 

Now, it's going to picks and roster players being moved. Addition by subtraction. Not just simply a money transaction. 

 

What UFA forward should they have gone after?  Name the player. 

 

Other than Duchene (who they went after and who turned them down for Nashville) and Panarin (who never seemed to consider Montreal), the rest of the UFA forward class was crap.  I don't know what UFA forward would have been worth signing (see overpaying) as a UFA. 

who did you want?  Johansson with the concussion issues? Anders Lee at 7 million per year (who wanted to stay in New York)? Wayne Simmonds who is a shell of the player he used to be? Brett Connolly or Brandon Tanev on their overpaid third liner deals? Richard Panik on that 4 year contract? Nyquist? Filpulla?  Pavelski at his age?  The Kevin Hayes contract?

Who was the guy?

[Habber31]

How is Anders Lee Crap?28 goals last season, 40 the year before, and 34 the year prior to that. 16 power play points last year(10 goals). Yea, the guy is a bum. 

 

 

 

 

[Commandant]

23 minutes ago, Habber31 said:

 

 

1

18 minutes ago, Habber31 said:

How is Anders Lee Crap?28 goals last season, 40 the year before, and 34 the year prior to that. 16 power play points last year(10 goals). Yea, the guy is a bum. 

A few things.  

I don't think Lee is crap. He's a good player

 

1) Did he even want to leave the Islanders?  As soon as the Rangers got Panarin (and thus the Isles could afford him) he signed with the Isles.

 

2) He's not crap... but 7 years x 7 million (and likely more for Montreal, as they would need to beat the Isles offer for him to move), for a guy with 52, 62, and 51 points in the last three years.  I like the player well enough, but I don't think he's worth that contract.  Seems a bit too rich for me, for a team that needs to re-sign Domi next year, and Gallagher, and have a bunch of young RFAs too, like Kotkaniemi.  At 5.5 or 6 million, sure.   Long term at over 7 million a season (again, you'd need to outbid the Isles), I don't know about that. 

He's 29 right now... I don't know about paying him 7 million a year at 33, 34, 35, 36

 

Look at the deals that Okposo, Ladd, Lucic, Eriksson, and all the other wingers signed 3 years ago, all at the same age.  They almost all look like shit now. 

[Habber31]

I just don't like the fact that Shaw was dealt(I liked the trade), but no one replaces his scoring below the goal line. 

 

[Commandant]

15 minutes ago, Habber31 said:

I just don't like the fact that Shaw was dealt(I liked the trade), but no one replaces his scoring below the goal line. 

 

 

There is more than 1 way to replace that scoring, it didn't have to be via UFA. The season is a long way away.  October 3rd isn't here. 

 

There are going to be opportunities over the next couple of months.  The habs have the cap space and a zillion draft picks, two things necessary to make a trade. 


 

[Habber31]

16 minutes ago, Commandant said:

 

There is more than 1 way to replace that scoring, it didn't have to be via UFA. The season is a long way away.  October 3rd isn't here. 

 

There are going to be opportunities over the next couple of months.  The habs have the cap space and a zillion draft picks, two things necessary to make a trade. 


 

I'm not saying that they can't make a trade, I'm saying they missed an opportunity to get a player for money; while not affecting the roster or prospect pool. 

[DON]

1 hour ago, Habber31 said:

I'm not saying that they can't make a trade, I'm saying they missed an opportunity to get a player for money; while not affecting the roster or prospect pool. 

Who did they miss, that would be an upgrade, would be a fit, at a reasonable cost and wanted to come to Montreal?

[Commandant]

6 hours ago, Habber31 said:

I'm not saying that they can't make a trade, I'm saying they missed an opportunity to get a player for money; while not affecting the roster or prospect pool. 

 

Duchene choose the preds

 

Panarin was never interested in montreal

 

Lee didnt want to leave the isles and got overpaid anyway 

 

Who is this great forward they missed out on?

 

[tomh009]

41 minutes ago, Commandant said:

Who is this great forward they missed out on?

 

The best UFA deals were the short contracts with the “P” team players: Perry, Pavelski, Panik. But I don’t really know how much of an impact they would have been able to make in the Habs’ lineup.

[Commandant]

26 minutes ago, tomh009 said:

 

The best UFA deals were the short contracts with the “P” team players: Perry, Pavelski, Panik. But I don’t really know how much of an impact they would have been able to make in the Habs’ lineup.

Panik got 4 years.  I wouldn't touch that for him

 

Pavelski got 3 years and is of an age that I'm not sure he fits with the Habs current re-tool. 

 

Perry could have been good at that 1 year contract. 

[hab29RETIRED]

1 hour ago, Commandant said:

 

Duchene choose the preds

 

Panarin was never interested in montreal

 

Lee didnt want to leave the isles and got overpaid anyway 

 

Who is this great forward they missed out on?

 

Aho, because they made a piss poor RFA offer.  He was worth giving up four 1st rounders.  At least he would have made them consider taking the return.  If the canes matched, than I don’t blame MB.  Given the joke of an offer which has been ridiculed every where I read - other than this site, no one thought it had any chance of success.

[Habber31]

6 hours ago, hab29RETIRED said:

Aho, because they made a piss poor RFA offer.  He was worth giving up four 1st rounders.  At least he would have made them consider taking the return.  If the canes matched, than I don’t blame MB.  Given the joke of an offer which has been ridiculed every where I read - other than this site, no one thought it had any chance of success.

I'm so confused how people support that offer on here. The Hurricane's owner is worth 1.1 billion dollars. He has the kind of funds to pay up for his 21 year old, franchise centre. He gained nothing by not resigning him. 

 

Beating a dead horse. I'll move on

Edited July 9, 2019 by Habber31

[hab29RETIRED]

1 hour ago, Habber31 said:

I'm so confused how people support that offer on here. The Hurricane's owner is worth 1.1 billion dollars. He has the kind of funds to pay up for his 21 year old, franchise centre. He gained nothing by not resigning him. 

 

Beating a dead horse. I'll move on

100% agree.  You had to overpay and ensure the Canes are getting a better return for them to consider not matching.  I’d rather overpay for a 21 year old RFA everytime, than overpay for a UFA, who it is generally guaranteed (although there are a few exceptions), that the last 2-4 years the player will be well past their due date and not worth their pay.

[JoeLassister]

I never voiced my opinion on the offer  but here it is :

 

I would have been 100% down with giving the next level   2x 1st,  1x2nd  an 1x3rd  for Aho.  However,  there is NO WAY that I'd have given the 4x1st picks for him.

I'm pretty sure that Aho could worth it in the end, but it's not garanteed either.  He's very good, but not a generational talent.

 

What I trully believe is that Bergevin was not offering ANYONE the 4x1st rounder  and was even relcutant to give away 2x1st.

He probably just decided to give a shot in the dark at Aho  given that the owner had to spend  A LOT  this year  and could potentially be in trouble with his liquidity.

He offered the minimum package that involved a first pick in compensation and that's it.

 

I don't expect him offersheeting anybody else. 

 

EDIT :  In other words,  I don't believe that Bergevin's plan  was to get Aho by overpaying.  It looks like it was to throw a line in the water totally knowing that it had a very low % of chance of success.

[ehjay]

19 hours ago, DON said:

Oho was Plan B, the 90+ point Point kid was Plan A

But agree, he should have some 'reasonable' plan...that doesnt include trying 40yr old d-men or washed up forwards.

All union items to deal with, go to court over and factor in agreement with NHL.

and a NHLPA is a must bcuz the kindness (see loyalty) of the owners/league was sooooo intense and great that the players (over the last 100+ years of the league) wanted to give back the cotton candy the players received. plz Don don't do that, plz.

I might speak awful and look stupid but that is just the swag bud.

[revvvrob]

Taking the chance cost us NOTHING. 

 

I don’t believe there will be vengeance - given that in the past when offer sheets have been tendered, GMs seemed to see it as business and not take it personal. If Domi or whoever get tendered an offer sheet, so be it - match or take the picks. 

 

I feel MB looks better today than before - because he took a swing. So what if he missed. For years we wished GMs would go for those RFAs. We have a GM that tried. 

 

That said - if he is done and this is our opening day team, then he failed. But it’s July 9. I’m ok with the Aho try. 

 

He hasn’t failed yet. Those thinking MB is terrible can continue to lay in excited anticipation of his looming evidence of ineptitude - but it’s too soon to pounce. 

 

Im encouraged by last summer and continue to be in excited anticipation of some move that justifies his clearing of salary. I hoped it was a UFA signing. It wasn’t. I hoped it was an RFA signing. It wasn’t.  But there are still trades that can be made. I still have hope. 

[huzer]

At this point, who cares? The Habs have no fewer assets than before the offer sheet. I think because offer sheets happen so infrequently, people expected it to work. The ONLY way it MAY have worked is if the Habs signed him to McDavid money. McDavid money for buying no years of UFA? Ridiculous. The same people complaining about the current lowball offer would be complaining about overpayment...or if even the offer made worked, would be complaining that the Habs didn't buy any UFA years. There honestly would have been no outcome from this that wouldn't have received criticism.

 

I get people are unhappy about the lack of improvement to the team so far this offseason. However, the offer sheet was a valid attempt, but an unlikely resolution.

[DON]

5 hours ago, hab29RETIRED said:

You had to overpay and ensure the Canes are getting a better return for them to consider not matching.  I’d rather overpay for a 21 year old RFA everytime

Total of 1 offer sheet not matched in the past 22 years, obviously GMs see offer sheets much different and more complex than you make them out to be.

[Habs Fan in Edmonton]

5 hours ago, JoeLassister said:

I never voiced my opinion on the offer  but here it is :

 

I would have been 100% down with giving the next level   2x 1st,  1x2nd  an 1x3rd  for Aho.  However,  there is NO WAY that I'd have given the 4x1st picks for him.

I'm pretty sure that Aho could worth it in the end, but it's not garanteed either.  He's very good, but not a generational talent.

 

What I trully believe is that Bergevin was not offering ANYONE the 4x1st rounder  and was even relcutant to give away 2x1st.

He probably just decided to give a shot in the dark at Aho  given that the owner had to spend  A LOT  this year  and could potentially be in trouble with his liquidity.

He offered the minimum package that involved a first pick in compensation and that's it.

 

I don't expect him offersheeting anybody else. 

 

EDIT :  In other words,  I don't believe that Bergevin's plan  was to get Aho by overpaying.  It looks like it was to throw a line in the water totally knowing that it had a very low % of chance of success.

 

I agree with your thoughts. Giving away 4  1st round picks is a lot even if they are later in the first round.  Pacioretty and Poehling were later first round picks so I don't think the arguement that you are not going to get anybody good later in the first round is valid. It would definitely discourage your scouting department. I would be surprised if MB tries it again although Brayden Point is tempting. The Leafs would undoubtedly match any offer sheet for Marner but it would be fun to watch.

[BCHabnut]

I believe what bergevin said is correct in my view.  10.5 and 4 1sts was too much cost. The difference in up front money  between 8.5 and 9.5 was not enough.  If the owner was willing to pay 22 up front, another 3 or 4 million and another first wasn't going to matter.  The leverage was the owner's liquidity and massive losses in sports investments last year.  It didn't happen.  It would not have happened with a 9.5 contract, and a top tier contract the price was too high. 

[Zowpeb]

10 hours ago, huzer said:

The ONLY way it MAY have worked is if the Habs signed him to McDavid money. McDavid money for buying no years of UFA? Ridiculous. The same people complaining about the current lowball offer would be complaining about overpayment...or if even the offer made worked, would be complaining that the Habs didn't buy any UFA years. There honestly would have been no outcome from this that wouldn't have received criticism.

 

I get people are unhappy about the lack of improvement to the team so far this offseason. However, the offer sheet was a valid attempt, but an unlikely resolution.

 

The comment on not buying UFA years is irrelevant.  Signing an RFA to an offer sheet is effectively offering a younger player a UFA level of contract...you just also have to pay out some picks as a “penalty”.  Frankly, if you expect to be drafting in the 20-30 range I don’t see why folks get their panties in a twist...how many 1st round picks of the Habs (or most teams) in that 20-30 range ever turn into the equivalent of an 80-90 point forward.  I think it’s shocking that more teams don’t use offer sheets more often.  Given the Habs inability to develop players effectively, and that they can afford it, they could use this quite well.  

[huzer]

But don’t you think you just answered your own question. If late first rounders rarely turn into 80-90 pt players, why would they gamble on 4 first rounders being better than the player they have and not matching? I still think the only way the Canes may not have matched is a max payer contract. I guess to some, Aho is worth that.