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Coaches: like players, some are NHL quality, some not.


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3 minutes ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said:

 

I agree that it’s the coach’s job to get players to play the system. DD has transparently failed to do that.

 

I also agree that it may not be entirely his fault. We saw a very similar movie in 2012 when the veterans quit on Jacques Martin and then almost immediately quit on Randy Cunneyworth. I doubt this was because they instantly came to a conclusion that Cunneyworth was a bad coach; more likely, it was an example of a dynamic that can occur whereby a critical mass of players simply give up on the season. They stop playing for each other and they stop putting in that extra effort and drive that is required to win at this level. That is what has happened in 2012 and it’s what happened in this case. Some players may be frustrated as individuals, but the team cohesion and mutual belief have completely broken down. (A lot of it may be that, right from the start, several players never believed that they had much chance to win in the first place with Price, Weber, and Danault gone; and that mindset metastasized). 

 

I worry a bit that bringing a new coach into that environment is setting him up to fail. My view is, this season as a complete wash. Play out the string and reboot hard next year.

 

If he was developping players like Caufield instead of leaving them on the 4th line playing 9 minutes a night with grinders, then maybe I'd listen to this, but in a lost season, this way of using the young players is ridiculous and I don't want the youth in that environment. 

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3 hours ago, revvvrob said:

Lose DD asap - give it to Interim Richardson and let’s prep to turn this s**tstorm around so it’s ready for next season. 

 

Promoting Richardson to the interim role would simply create another media gong show, remember what happened when they did that with Cunneyworth?  I thought Molson basically vowed he'd never let that happen again.

 

30 minutes ago, alfredoh2009 said:

Barring a trade, Caufield will return to Laval when the RWs get back to the lineup 

 

henis fine playing on the 3rd line until he earns more Ice time

 

That won't be until late February though with both Anderson/Toffoli out long-term.  I'm fine with him on the third line as long as he's seeing regular PP time.

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Ducharme is doing his job of getting us to keep our pick, and hopefully making it #1 overall baby!  As long as he's not actively damaging players' development or the overall culture then I'm fine with him riding out the season.  Besides, the team and the league as a whole have lost a lot of money since covid so we don't want to be paying three coaches at once.

 

As for next season, I hope Gorton is planning to implement more of a systematic approach to organizational development - more philosophical integration between the farm teams and the NHL.  I look at my other favourite team, the Raptors, and they have a program - players are happy to come there because they know they'll get better and the organization will work with them to maximize their skills and value, even if they end up with another team. The coaches and management are all on the same page and are open with the players about expectations and what to work on. I get that basketball is very different from hockey, but we seem like we're miles away from this modern approach.

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39 minutes ago, Neech said:

Ducharme is doing his job of getting us to keep our pick, and hopefully making it #1 overall baby!  As long as he's not actively damaging players' development or the overall culture then I'm fine with him riding out the season.  Besides, the team and the league as a whole have lost a lot of money since covid so we don't want to be paying three coaches at once.

 

As for next season, I hope Gorton is planning to implement more of a systematic approach to organizational development - more philosophical integration between the farm teams and the NHL.  I look at my other favourite team, the Raptors, and they have a program - players are happy to come there because they know they'll get better and the organization will work with them to maximize their skills and value, even if they end up with another team. The coaches and management are all on the same page and are open with the players about expectations and what to work on. I get that basketball is very different from hockey, but we seem like we're miles away from this modern approach.

 

No doubt the Raptors have gained an excellent reputation for player development, maybe the Habs can learn something from them.  You actually have American players wanting to play there.  I know this is maybe off topic a little but this was from an article about Justin Champagnie. 

 

“I told my agent right away I wanted to play in Toronto. Like right after the workout I told him that,” said Champagnie whose agent, Todd Ramasar, also represents Pascal Siakam. “It was like a no-brainer.”

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Wondering how much DD has to say in the decision to bring Primeau up to play vs Flyers, but then saying Montembeault goes sometime next road trip.

what is the point of having Mont. if you’re gonna not even dress him (Allen is backing up vs Flyers) so Allen doesn’t even really get the night off. Then obv the plan is to send Primeau back down and Mont gets a game on the road trip starting later in week.

Why not let Primeau continue to start in AHL where he has had some success and has not in NHL this year?  Allen can still backup Mont, since he is anyways.

Why have Montembeault at all if he can’t play this one game out of 20. What a waste of a contract, if the goal is to develop Primeau just bring him up and split starts with Allen, otherwise continue to let him season in AHL as he is not ready.   
This seems like such an unplanned , reactionary move. I see no sound logic to it and can’t help but blame DD as cannot see Gorton dictating this call this early on …

 

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1 hour ago, Habs Fan in Edmonton said:

... You actually have American players wanting to play there ...

For basketball purposes, isn't Toronto the 51st state ... or an unincorporated territory of the United States?

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1 hour ago, hockeyrealist said:

Wondering how much DD has to say in the decision to bring Primeau up to play vs Flyers, but then saying Montembeault goes sometime next road trip.

what is the point of having Mont. if you’re gonna not even dress him (Allen is backing up vs Flyers) so Allen doesn’t even really get the night off. Then obv the plan is to send Primeau back down and Mont gets a game on the road trip starting later in week.

Why not let Primeau continue to start in AHL where he has had some success and has not in NHL this year?  Allen can still backup Mont, since he is anyways.

Why have Montembeault at all if he can’t play this one game out of 20. What a waste of a contract, if the goal is to develop Primeau just bring him up and split starts with Allen, otherwise continue to let him season in AHL as he is not ready.   
This seems like such an unplanned , reactionary move. I see no sound logic to it and can’t help but blame DD as cannot see Gorton dictating this call this early on …

 

Montenbault is a cheap Allen replacement till Price is back, that is all he is, as soon as Price is back, bye bye.

Primeau needs to play lots and he wont in Montreal, so that is the basic logic.

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12 minutes ago, DON said:

Montenbault is a cheap Allen replacement till Price is back, that is all he is, as soon as Price is back, bye bye.

Primeau needs to play lots and he wont in Montreal, so that is the basic logic.

 

Agree.  I don't see Montembeault as having a long term future here. 

 

Primeau does need to play a lot, perhaps bringing him up for 1 game is a little reward for doing a good job in Laval. Not a big deal. 

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2 hours ago, Habs Fan in Edmonton said:

Primeau does need to play a lot, perhaps bringing him up for 1 game is a little reward for doing a good job in Laval. Not a big deal. 

I hope he stands on his head and shuts down the juggernaut Flyers!:nuts:

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Just now, alfredoh2009 said:

Yes, he tried his darnest to torpedo t he system but DD prevailed :halm:

I came out really hard against Petry.

 

But...then I went back and watched the quote again - the entire interview.

 

I can't defend his play, he has been terrible! - but go watch the clip again - I don't think he is blasting the coach for not having a game plan - he is blasting his teammates for not following one.....

 

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3 hours ago, titanfan said:

I came out really hard against Petry.

 

But...then I went back and watched the quote again - the entire interview.

 

I can't defend his play, he has been terrible! - but go watch the clip again - I don't think he is blasting the coach for not having a game plan - he is blasting his teammates for not following one.....

 

 

And not excusing himself IMO

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2 hours ago, DON said:

And then goes out and craps the bed once again.:rastapop:

Don't disagree ... but two different issues IMO

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1 hour ago, DON said:

Again, what difference will a head coach change make? Change for the sake of change seems it.

 

As the article says... the change is about player development, especially pieces who are young and need to be part of the future like Romanov, Poehling, Evans, Caufield, Primeau, etc...

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51 minutes ago, Commandant said:

 

As the article says... the change is about player development, especially pieces who are young and need to be part of the future like Romanov, Poehling, Evans, Caufield, Primeau, etc...

100% agree. If we aren’t seeing steps forward with young players, they either need to be sent to Laval, or we need a new coach. I actually think both of these moves are required for that good of our young players. 
 

if nothing else, it also gives older players like Petry who have been crap and have complained about a lack of system, a change and chance to prove they don’t just suck on their own and there was a coaching issue.  We need Petry to increase his trade value, and if a coaching change gives even a remote chance of that, you make a move.

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8 hours ago, DON said:

Again, what difference will a head coach change make? Change for the sake of change seems it.

 

I think Gorton and Hughes will take time to evaluate and make a decision after the season. I don't have strong feelings one way or another about Ducharme. There are those here who don't like him and give him zero credit for the run to the finals last year and put the full blame on him for this year and player development.  I think it's really hard to judge from a distance if you are not close to the team and seeing how the players interact and pay attention. The Habs have led the league in man games due to injuries and it's been a revolving door of players.  For me it's hard to judge the coach based on this year. 

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53 minutes ago, Habs Fan in Edmonton said:

 

I think Gorton and Hughes will take time to evaluate and make a decision after the season. I don't have strong feelings one way or another about Ducharme. There are those here who don't like him and give him zero credit for the run to the finals last year and put the full blame on him for this year and player development.  I think it's really hard to judge from a distance if you are not close to the team and seeing how the players interact and pay attention. The Habs have led the league in man games due to injuries and it's been a revolving door of players.  For me it's hard to judge the coach based on this year. 

 

I agree, the coaching group was put into an impossible situation at the beginning of the season when MB was waiting to be cut, and no significant trades towards a reconstruction were happening.

 

They were again hung out to dry during the search for the GM and now they are in the impossible situation: dammed if they win (tankers angry), dammed if they don't (coaching-from-the-couch fans and click-bait media angry)

 

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Given what they have said, IMO the only reason that Hughes and Gorton would make an in-season change is if they feel that DD's leadership is actually hurting the development of the youngsters (e.g., Suzuki and Romanov), and perhaps Petry and others rehabilitating their trade value ... ***IF*** that is the case, a change should be made PDQ ... if not, then DD suffers through the rest of the season.

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