Jump to content

Who will be our defencemen next season?


REV-G
 Share

Recommended Posts

After seeing the first games played by Justin Barron and Jordan Harris last week and expecting that Jeff Petry will not be back I'm wondering if any of these young defensemen make our team next year or if that would be rushing their development and a year, or should they at least start the year in Laval and bring them up later, is what would be best for them?

 

I'm assuming that Joel Edmundston, David Savard and Alex Romanov will be the veterans next year. And I would expect that Cory Schueneman will also be one of our D men. But out of the following, I'm wondering who takes the final 3 spots.

 

Caden Guyle, Justin Barron, Jordan Harris, Chris Wideman, Kale Clague, William Lagesson.

 

Or do they sign a free agent this summer to get them through the next year? 

 

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • dlbalr changed the title to Who will be our defencemen next season?

There's also the very realistic possibility that they get a defenceman back for Petry.  That player, with Edmundson/Savard/Romanov would be my guess at the the veteran core while Schueneman, Guhle, and Harris would be my prediction for the others.  Barron will be in the minors for more development time but would probably be the first recall.  There's no way Lagesson will be back and Wideman is probably in that situation as well.  For me, Clague is the wild card.  He's young enough that he's worth keeping around but he'd be earmarked for Laval.  If that's the case, would they let him go to give him a chance at catching on somewhere else?

  • Upvote 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Edmundson/Savard/Romanov/Schueneman/Guhle/Harris/Barron should be bulk of d-core.

Norlinder has dropped off a cliff, offense wise, not sure if he has flamed out for good, or if injuries/role are bigger factors?

Xhekaj-Fairbrother-Brook-Niku are depth, if still around next season.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

13 minutes ago, DON said:

Norlinder has dropped off a cliff, offense wise, not sure if he has flamed out for good, or if injuries/role are bigger factors?

 

I suspect he'll be in Laval full-time next season as they try to build him back up.  It has been a brutal year but I wouldn't write him off just yet.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

41 minutes ago, dlbalr said:

There's also the very realistic possibility that they get a defenceman back for Petry.  That player, with Edmundson/Savard/Romanov would be my guess at the the veteran core while Schueneman, Guhle, and Harris would be my prediction for the others.  Barron will be in the minors for more development time but would probably be the first recall.  There's no way Lagesson will be back and Wideman is probably in that situation as well.  For me, Clague is the wild card.  He's young enough that he's worth keeping around but he'd be earmarked for Laval.  If that's the case, would they let him go to give him a chance at catching on somewhere else?

 

I agree with all of that, but think Schueneman and Clague will be competing for the 7th spot.  These are two guys who don't have a lot to learn in the AHL. Players like Guhle, Harris and Barron need the ice time though, so they need to be top 6 or AHL. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I would add a veteran RD in the off-season, to give time to the D prospects to mature at their pace.

Someone like Schultz (WSH) or Lyubushkin (TOR) or even PK Subban who (I honestly believe) would bring passion and may seize the opportunity to build a legacy by helping the Habs' D prospects develop.

 

That would turn the top-4 D-pairs into something like, with Stanley cup winners in bold:

Edmundson-Savard

Romanov-Schultz/Lyubushkin/Subban

 

with the following Ds sharing time on the 3rd pair:

Schueneman, Clague, Brook

 

With the prospects playing lots of minutes in the AHL and hopefully forcing a trade:

Baron, Harris, Guhle, Norlinder, Struble,

Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 minutes ago, alfredoh2009 said:

I would add a veteran RD in the off-season, to give time to the D prospects to mature at their pace.

Someone like Schultz (WSH) or Lyubushkin (TOR) or even PK Subban who (I honestly believe) would bring passion and may seize the opportunity to build a legacy by helping the Habs' D prospects develop.

 

That would turn the top-4 D-pairs into something like, with Stanley cup winners in bold:

Edmundson-Savard

Romanov-Schultz/Lyubushkin/Subban

 

with the following Ds sharing time on the 3rd pair:

Schueneman, Clague, Brook

 

With the prospects playing lots of minutes in the AHL and hopefully forcing a trade:

Baron, Harris, Guhle, Norlinder, Struble,

 

Brook needed AHL time before this season even started.  Its been a disaster with his knee.  Given that he is now coming off two knee injuries and has barely played, I don't see him as in the mix to be in the NHL next year.  He needs to play and hasnt been able to do that.

 

Harris and Guhle and Barron have all jumped him on the depth chart 

 

I also dont think you line up all your vets in the top 4 and put two kids together on the third pair.  I think you split up the two kids in the lineup and pair one each with a vet 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

6 minutes ago, Commandant said:

 

Brook needed AHL time before this season even started.  Its been a disaster with his knee.  Given that he is now coming off two knee injuries and has barely played, I don't see him as in the mix to be in the NHL next year.  He needs to play and hasnt been able to do that.

 

Harris and Guhle and Barron have all jumped him on the depth chart 

 

I also dont think you line up all your vets in the top 4 and put two kids together on the third pair.  I think you split up the two kids in the lineup and pair one each with a vet 

Schueneman and Clague are not kids.

 

And I believe that Brook would be lost to waivers if not kept in the NHL, despite what you write about his knee. I want him to stay until the Habs trade for a replacement for what his potential should be.

 

If the Habs trade, let's say Struble or Clague and a 3rd, for an RD prospect... then sure, waive Brook

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 minutes ago, alfredoh2009 said:

Schueneman and Clague are not kids.

 

And I believe that Brook would be lost to waivers if not kept in the NHL, despite what you write about his knee. I want him to stay until the Habs trade for a replacement for what his potential should be.

 

If the Habs trade, let's say Struble or Clague and a 3rd, for an RD prospect... then sure, waive Brook

 

Schuneman and clague will have less than 100 NHL games combined at the start of next season.  Not much experience between them.

 

I doubt brook would be lost to waivers.  Any team claiming him would need to keep him in the NHL.  He's not NHL ready.

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 minute ago, Commandant said:

 

Schuneman and clague will have less than 100 NHL games combined at the start of next season.  Not much experience between them.

 

I doubt brook would be lost to waivers.  Any team claiming him would need to keep him in the NHL.  He's not NHL ready.

 

 

 

Habs have lost too many players like that. I do not want to take that chance with a RD.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

What last year Stanley cup finals taught us is that we need more Playmakers on D. After Weber and Petry got hurt there was no one who could put the puck on the net or had a good shot from the point. 

 

After we trade Petry I would make a play for Chychrun. We have the picks and young talent on D to make that kind of trade. Then I would try and add a vet playmaker on D via UFA.

 

Chychrun  / Romanov

Edmonton / Barron 

UFA  / Savard 

 

Much better well rounded Dcore 

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

38 minutes ago, Habsfan89 said:

What last year Stanley cup finals taught us is that we need more Playmakers on D. After Weber and Petry got hurt there was no one who could put the puck on the net or had a good shot from the point. 

 

After we trade Petry I would make a play for Chychrun. We have the picks and young talent on D to make that kind of trade. Then I would try and add a vet playmaker on D via UFA.

 

Chychrun  / Romanov

Edmonton / Barron 

UFA  / Savard 

 

Much better well rounded Dcore 

 

 

 

If only Barron was already a legitimate top-4 RD, alas!

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

57 minutes ago, Habsfan89 said:

What last year Stanley cup finals taught us is that we need more Playmakers on D. After Weber and Petry got hurt there was no one who could put the puck on the net or had a good shot from the point. 

 

After we trade Petry I would make a play for Chychrun. We have the picks and young talent on D to make that kind of trade. Then I would try and add a vet playmaker on D via UFA.

 

Chychrun  / Romanov

Edmonton / Barron 

UFA  / Savard 

 

Much better well rounded Dcore 

 

 

I don’t want to make a high cost acquisition, I want to know where we are picking and who we are picking in the draft and about  Price’s future.

 

Are we going to have a shot at getting a high impact player that can develop into a top centre 2-3 years from draft, or a top Dman in 3-4 years? It’s important to know what hole do we think gets filled for the future during the draft.

 

We also need clarity onPrice and our cap room.  We need need to know if he is  going to be healthy. Will he be back this year? Next year? If he is not back this year, but is able to return next year, we won’t have the additional LTIR room next year. If he is tradeable, do we want to keep him? If we don’t want to keep him, do we have to retain salary, and if so, how much?

 

I don’t want to be making decisions on big contracts or plan on giving up picks and young assets until the other questions are answered.

 

we are using up a lot of cap space on mediocre players, and a guy like Chychrun is going to cost a lot of assets.  If we are three years away from being a playoff team, I don’t want to trade for a guy now that will be expensive to resign when we are ready.

 

We need to move Petry this summer, and I’d like to move others like Hoffman, Gallagher, Savard and Armia if we can by the next trade deadline.

 

I’d rather take a measured approach to the rebuild, rather than take short cuts now that burn is later. We aren’t making the playoffs next year - with or without Chychrun. Probably not even the following year, unless a lot of kids in the pipeline exceed expectations or develop really fast. That shouldn’t be an expectation, or the plan.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

14 minutes ago, hab29RETIRED said:

...  If we are three years away from being a sustainable, legit playoff team, I don’t want to trade for a guy now that will be expensive to resign when we are ready ...

just added a qualifier to what you said ... I fear with a couple of moves this summer the Habs could be scratching for a wild card spot next season ... don't think that would be in their long-term best interests.

 

BTW - by "legit" I mean not hoping/battling for a wild card but a top 3 in the Division team

  • Upvote 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

16 minutes ago, GHT120 said:

just added a qualifier to what you said ... I fear with a couple of moves this summer the Habs could be scratching for a wild card spot next season ... don't think that would be in their long-term best interests.

 

BTW - by "legit" I mean not hoping/battling for a wild card but a top 3 in the Division team

I agree with you, I think this year was a right off year do to lack of depth and a weak D. If we can address those issues I think we can make the playoffs next year.

 

We have a lot of picks the next 2 years which we can trade to fill holes or add to our youth. We have added a lot of younger guys also with the guys we picked up.

 

I truly think we don't need to rebuild. We should of rebuild this team and blow it up  3 years ago Instead of  the retool.  If we continue to trade our ufa's that we don't plan on resigning and using those assets to add depth to our organization we can become a playoff team on a regular bassist.  

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I think it's too early tolook for expensive veterans. We are not a contender now, nor will we be one next year.

 

1 minute ago, Habsfan89 said:

I truly think we don't need to rebuild.

And here is where we disagree.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

42 minutes ago, GHT120 said:

just added a qualifier to what you said ... I fear with a couple of moves this summer the Habs could be scratching for a wild card spot next season ... don't think that would be in their long-term best interests.

 

BTW - by "legit" I mean not hoping/battling for a wild card but a top 3 in the Division team

Agreed. I don’t want us trying to become a bubble team, that has a couple of runs in a blue moon anymore. We need to be a sustainable legit playoff team.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

13 minutes ago, tomh009 said:

I think it's too early tolook for expensive veterans. We are not a contender now, nor will we be one next year.

 

And here is where we disagree.

100% agree. We need more guys like Suzuki, Caufield and better Dman than our best right now  - Romanov. We also need less borderline 3rd/4th liners in the lineup to be a solid team.  We can’t just hope that guys have career years and our picks next year and prospects like Roy and Guhle are major pieces during the next two years.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, alfredoh2009 said:

 

Habs have lost too many players like that. I do not want to take that chance with a RD.

 

And where are those players now? Not guys lost 15 years ago, but today.

 

Juulsen isnt an NHLer. 

 

Who else have we lost on waivers that is a major hit.

 

Right now Brook needs to play hockey after the season he had.  Hes also not ready to play in the NHL.

 

Any plan that is just so we Avoid waivers with him is going to see him sit in the press box a lot.  And thats not good for him either.  That wont make him an NHLer.

 

To me the only plan is to send him to the AHL and hope he develops with ice time.  Cause keeping him to avoid waivers wont do him any good and wont do the team any good as he wont develop that way.

  • Like 1
  • Upvote 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

5 hours ago, hab29RETIRED said:

I don’t want to make a high cost acquisition, I want to know where we are picking and who we are picking in the draft and about  Price’s future.

 

Are we going to have a shot at getting a high impact player that can develop into a top centre 2-3 years from draft, or a top Dman in 3-4 years? It’s important to know what hole do we think gets filled for the future during the draft.

 

 

I agree, a lot of unknowns at this point. I am not a big fan of spending a lot of money on a free agent now, I would rather wait 2-3 years when that free agent might be the final piece to a puzzle that still has a lot of missing pieces. 

 

I think Jordan Harris has a great chance at a full time slot given his maturity, smarts and he is almost 22 with 4 years of college hockey.  Guhle will also be knocking at the door.  Barron I think will need a little more seasoning.  I think Edmundson and Savard are enough of a veteran presence to help the kids and Romanov is rapidly developing, not a rookie anymore. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Habs Fan in Edmonton said:

 

I agree, a lot of unknowns at this point. I am not a big fan of spending a lot of money on a free agent now, I would rather wait 2-3 years when that free agent might be the final piece to a puzzle that still has a lot of missing pieces. 

 

I think Jordan Harris has a great chance at a full time slot given his maturity, smarts and he is almost 22 with 4 years of college hockey.  Guhle will also be knocking at the door.  Barron I think will need a little more seasoning.  I think Edmundson and Savard are enough of a veteran presence to help the kids and Romanov is rapidly developing, not a rookie anymore. 

I agree about Romanov and that Harris should be a regular. The question is will Harris eventually be a good second pairing dman, or bottom pairing? Ditto with Barron.  Neither need to be in the lineup to start the season, it will depend on what they show for the rest of this season and next training camp.
 

With reaped to Guhle, is he eligible to start the year in the AHL next year, if he doesn’t look ready? I think we have potential to have a fairly mobile young D, just no stud like Makar or Hughes.

 

If we can get a similar return as we did for Chiarot, I’d see if we move Edmondson at next year’s deadline, after he mentors the young dmen during the year. I’d rather move Savard, but I doubt if we can as high if a return. I think if we do well at the next two drafts, than we can try and trade for, or sign a more experienced player who is capable of being a core piece. But that depends on where our holes are at after the 2023 draft. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I disagree with those who say we should wait to acquire players that would help our team in the now, and also agree that based on the defensive projections that have been posted on this page, we should look into acquiring an NHL ready player or two for our defensive pairings should Petry be leaving.

 

Comical isn’t the right word but I find it somewhat delusional when people state that we will not be good this year “but specifically in 3 years” we will be.
 

I understand that the mentality is actually trying to be even more rational than those who want to squeak into the playoffs in a given year, but there seems to be such little evidence to support those who always have this EXACT 3 year plan in mind. We’ve already been through many “three year” rebuilds that have led to nothing since 2000.

 

The way I view it, thinking this way actually sabotages our team from performing and guarantees nothing. “Let’s not play up to our potential and save it for a few years down the road”. Well, when “it’s our year in 2025” and our best player breaks his leg, it’ll be so much for that.  
 

I personally think turnarounds for both the better and the worse can happen much quicker in the modern NHL, and almost in any given season. 

Who’s going to win this year? Tampa? Florida? Colorado? Or will they? I mean it’s guaranteed that at least two of those teams will not win the cup and they fit the criteria that so many people are hoping for the Habs to fit in 3 years.
 

I think either way, whether you are trying to be a competitive team on a regular basis and even potentially squeak into the playoffs, or to construct a team that will be a dominant force a few years from now, it’s simply not easy to win a cup.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, xXx..CK..xXx said:

I disagree with those who say we should wait to acquire players that would help our team in the now, and also agree that based on the defensive projections that have been posted on this page, we should look into acquiring an NHL ready player or two for our defensive pairings should Petry be leaving.

 

Comical isn’t the right word but I find it somewhat delusional when people state that we will not be good this year “but specifically in 3 years” we will be.
 

I understand that the mentality is actually trying to be even more rational than those who want to squeak into the playoffs in a given year, but there seems to be such little evidence to support those who always have this EXACT 3 year plan in mind. We’ve already been through many “three year” rebuilds that have led to nothing since 2000.

 

The way I view it, thinking this way actually sabotages our team from performing and guarantees nothing. “Let’s not play up to our potential and save it for a few years down the road”. Well, when “it’s our year in 2025” and our best player breaks his leg, it’ll be so much for that.  
 

I personally think turnarounds for both the better and the worse can happen much quicker in the modern NHL, and almost in any given season. 

Who’s going to win this year? Tampa? Florida? Colorado? Or will they? I mean it’s guaranteed that at least two of those teams will not win the cup and they fit the criteria that so many people are hoping for the Habs to fit in 3 years.
 

I think either way, whether you are trying to be a competitive team on a regular basis and even potentially squeak into the playoffs, or to construct a team that will be a dominant force a few years from now, it’s simply not easy to win a cup.

 

 

This is an excellent post. You put your finger on one of the basic problems with tanking as a long-term team-building strategy. I love your point about the infinitely sliding three-year target…I’ve been hearing that one for decades.

 

Chychrun is 24. It is reasonable to expect 7-8 years out of him at his current level. So if there’s a deal to be made, we should certainly explore that. The problem I have is that Arizona not in “win now” mode any more than we are, so why would they trade a relatively young defenceman for anything other than a crippling cost, such as our highest 1st-rounder pick this year? I’d take Chychrun in a heartbeat but the cost has to make sense to a team that is rebuilding. The issue with him, then, is not a “crippling contract.” It’s the probable return.

 

However: unless Harris and Barron in particular are NHL-ready, the D configurations posted in this thread are basically garbage. If they are not ready to eat significant minutes over 82 games, then gifting them full-time NHL slots seems like it will just reproduce the same trap the Habs are always falling into, i.e., throwing kids into the fire too soon, with zero insulation, and with unknowable consequences for their development.

 

On the other hand, it would indeed be a big mistake to sign a veteran UFA to another bad contract that hurts us long term. Between these two evils - running with kids and taking on a long-term boat anchor - I’d prefer the former. 

 

There may be another possibility, though. Go and acquire a second-tier d-man on a moderate contract. Doesn’t have to be a stud, just a guy who can log substantial NHL minutes without being a disgrace. He should be a puck-moving type. 

 

This will never happen, but a guy like PK Subban, who can still move the puck but is a shadow of his former glory and who might perhaps be signed to reasonable term/amount, is the KIND of dude I mean. A placeholder who can offer some useful service and shelter allowing the young D to develop properly. A d-man of that profile is who I’d be looking for. And in case you’re curious, I wouldn’t rule Subban out, if I thought he’d be coming back here with the right mindset - helping a young team grow - and was willing to take a deal that makes sense. 

 

 

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

10 hours ago, hab29RETIRED said:

... If we can get a similar return as we did for Chiarot, I’d see if we move Edmondson at next year’s deadline ...

Some clickbait sites have been pushing to sign Letang ... they feel that as a former Hughes client he might accept a 2 year deal trusting Hughes will extend him if his play warrants ... ***IF*** that were true (given the sources I am dubious) I would even look to move Edmundson this summer.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, xXx..CK..xXx said:

I disagree with those who say we should wait to acquire players that would help our team in the now, and also agree that based on the defensive projections that have been posted on this page, we should look into acquiring an NHL ready player or two for our defensive pairings should Petry be leaving.

 

Comical isn’t the right word but I find it somewhat delusional when people state that we will not be good this year “but specifically in 3 years” we will be ...

 

An NHL ready players is one thing ... that fits in a rebuild ... but top 4 NHL established defencemen is another ... that could jump the Habs into the playoff race and impede/short-circuit the rebuild ... don't think people mean it is guaranteed that the team will be better in 3 years but that at least next season, and maybe 23/24, should be used to acquire/develop youngsters and plans add established NHLers with the purpose of making the playoffs a third year element, absent incredibly quick youth development. 

  • Upvote 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

 Share

×
×
  • Create New...