DON Posted October 24, 2022 Share Posted October 24, 2022 3 hours ago, alfredoh2009 said: Probably Are you serious? Monahan will get a 3-6yr deal worth $19-$38million offer from some GM next year? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomh009 Posted October 24, 2022 Share Posted October 24, 2022 1 hour ago, DON said: Are you serious? Monahan will get a 3-6yr deal worth $19-$38million offer from some GM next year? So, what do you expect him to get (not want, but actually get)? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DON Posted October 24, 2022 Share Posted October 24, 2022 39 minutes ago, tomh009 said: So, what do you expect him to get (not want, but actually get)? My guess or expectation will be less than what Dvorak ($4.45m/yr) is getting. Maybe more than Corey Perry but less than Dvorak. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dlbalr Posted October 24, 2022 Share Posted October 24, 2022 49 minutes ago, DON said: My guess or expectation will be less than what Dvorak ($4.45m/yr) is getting. Maybe more than Corey Perry but less than Dvorak. If he stays healthy all season and plays at this level, he'll be well above Dvorak's contract. Both are big if's but it only takes one good year to really boost a centre's value. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hab29RETIRED Posted October 24, 2022 Share Posted October 24, 2022 1 hour ago, DON said: My guess or expectation will be less than what Dvorak ($4.45m/yr) is getting. Maybe more than Corey Perry but less than Dvorak. He’ll get more if he has a good productive year and stays healthy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomh009 Posted October 25, 2022 Share Posted October 25, 2022 57 minutes ago, dlbalr said: If he stays healthy all season and plays at this level, he'll be well above Dvorak's contract. Both are big if's but it only takes one good year to really boost a centre's value. If he can show he is playing at his former level (60 pts/year). There might be some discount given the (at least perceived) injury risk but it should not be huge. Also, it's worth remembering that Dvorak signed his contract in 2018, five years before Monahan will sign his new one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hab29RETIRED Posted October 25, 2022 Share Posted October 25, 2022 25 minutes ago, tomh009 said: If he can show he is playing at his former level (60 pts/year). There might be some discount given the (at least perceived) injury risk but it should not be huge. Also, it's worth remembering that Dvorak signed his contract in 2018, five years before Monahan will sign his new one. You also have to keep in mind that Monohan was a first line productive impact centre at one point. He averaged close to 30 goals a year and haad over 80 points before he started getting injury issues. Dvorak on the other hand can’t even be considered a legit 2nd line centre on a good team. He’s really more of a third liner, who has never hit 40 points or 20 goals. The bear we can hope for him is for him to be Lars Eller and that sure the hell isn’t worth a 1st and 3rd. if Monohan gets 20 goals/60 points - which is below his career numbers, but an improvement on his post hip injury numbers, he could easily get $6m+ and that’s with an injury discount factored in. Dvorak is overpaid and was clearly another MB mistake. Should have just taken the picks from the Canes. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alfredoh2009 Posted October 25, 2022 Share Posted October 25, 2022 14 minutes ago, hab29RETIRED said: You also have to keep in mind that Monohan was a first line productive impact centre at one point. He averaged close to 30 goals a year and haad over 80 points before he started getting injury issues. Dvorak on the other hand can’t even be considered a legit 2nd line centre on a good team. He’s really more of a third liner, who has never hit 40 points or 20 goals. The bear we can hope for him is for him to be Lars Eller and that sure the hell isn’t worth a 1st and 3rd. if Monohan gets 20 goals/60 points - which is below his career numbers, but an improvement on his post hip injury numbers, he could easily get $6m+ and that’s with an injury discount factored in. Dvorak is overpaid and was clearly another MB mistake. Should have just taken the picks from the Canes. that is why I do not believe Hugh-Gort plans to resign him, but to trade him. So, replying to the earlier proposal to switch him with Dach: no thank you, let's make sure Monahan has the best possible season up to the trade deadline and let's bank another first rounder. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomh009 Posted October 25, 2022 Share Posted October 25, 2022 14 minutes ago, hab29RETIRED said: if Monohan gets 20 goals/60 points - which is below his career numbers, but an improvement on his post hip injury numbers, he could easily get $6m+ and that’s with an injury discount factored in. 60 points is more or less what he was averaging. Pre-injury he did 62, 63, 58, 64, 82, 48. The last one was the first COVID season. But arguably the 82 looks like an outlier at the moment. Of course if he were to repeat that this year ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alfredoh2009 Posted October 25, 2022 Share Posted October 25, 2022 4 hours ago, DON said: Are you serious? Monahan will get a 3-6yr deal worth $19-$38million offer from some GM next year? yes, 3 years at $6M or to 5 years at #5.5M ($18M to $27.5M) offer from some GM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prime Minister Koivu Posted October 25, 2022 Share Posted October 25, 2022 12 hours ago, alfredoh2009 said: yes, 3 years at $6M or to 5 years at #5.5M ($18M to $27.5M) offer from some GM I suspect that GM will experience significant regret at some point during that contract. Buyer beware of that injury history Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DON Posted October 25, 2022 Share Posted October 25, 2022 13 hours ago, hab29RETIRED said: You also have to keep in mind that Monohan was a first line productive impact centre at one point. He averaged close to 30 goals a year and haad over 80 points before he started getting injury issues. 2018-19- he had 34g, 40 the following 3 seasons. 2018-19- Gallagher had 33g, 41 the following 3 seasons. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hab29RETIRED Posted October 25, 2022 Share Posted October 25, 2022 4 hours ago, DON said: 2018-19- he had 34g, 40 the following 3 seasons. 2018-19- Gallagher had 33g, 41 the following 3 seasons. Sure. But NHL GM’s are stupid when it comes to big centres with size. Hell, we were so desperate we gave up a 1st and 3rd rounder for a third line centre. Do I want to resign Monohan even if it was 4 yrs a $4m, absolutely not. I’d rather get a first rounder. But you can bet that if Monohan puts up 60 points, some GM will be willing to pay him $6m. Having said that, I’d prefer to keep Monohan over Dvorak, but I don’t think we’d even get anything more than a 2nd rounder for Dvorak - if that. With respect to Gallagher, the time to trade him was three years ago. Now he’s back to being seen as a Smurf because of his decline in production and injuries. We have to eat half of his cap hit to move him. As much as I like Gallagher, if we had to keep at least one of Gallagher and Monohan for the next 4 years, and were guaranteed to get a first rounder for the other, I’d rather keep Monohan. I think he has a better chance of remaining healthy going forward than Gallagher. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GHT120 Posted October 25, 2022 Author Share Posted October 25, 2022 1 hour ago, hab29RETIRED said: ... With respect to Gallagher, the time to trade him was three years ago. Now he’s back to being seen as a Smurf because of his decline in production and injuries. We have to eat half of his cap hit to move him ... or ... HOPE and PRAY that Bergevin gets a GK job and that his new roster has a slightly lower AAv, slightly shorter contract he wants to dispose of ... after all ... he LOVES Gallagher. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commandant Posted October 25, 2022 Share Posted October 25, 2022 Drouin is playing better than he's being given credit for. He's been far better than both Hoffman and Dadonov who aren't getting near as many comments about their poor defence and soft play. I'm not saying he's perfect, but he's been the best of those three at both ends of the ice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DON Posted October 25, 2022 Share Posted October 25, 2022 1 hour ago, hab29RETIRED said: I’d rather keep Monohan. I think he has a better chance of remaining healthy going forward than Gallagher. Why would you think this? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alfredoh2009 Posted October 25, 2022 Share Posted October 25, 2022 4 minutes ago, Commandant said: Drouin is playing better than he's being given credit for. He's been far better than both Hoffman and Dadonov who aren't getting near as many comments about their poor defence and soft play. I'm not saying he's perfect, but he's been the best of those three at both ends of the ice. 100% agreed Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GHT120 Posted October 25, 2022 Author Share Posted October 25, 2022 20 minutes ago, Commandant said: Drouin is playing better than he's being given credit for. He's been far better than both Hoffman and Dadonov who aren't getting near as many comments about their poor defence and soft play. I'm not saying he's perfect, but he's been the best of those three at both ends of the ice. Once a player becomes a fan whipping-boy it is hard to get away from being one ... I agree he is playing better than he is often given credit for. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Habs Fan in Edmonton Posted October 25, 2022 Share Posted October 25, 2022 2 hours ago, Commandant said: Drouin is playing better than he's being given credit for. He's been far better than both Hoffman and Dadonov who aren't getting near as many comments about their poor defence and soft play. I'm not saying he's perfect, but he's been the best of those three at both ends of the ice. That's probably true but better than Dadonov and Hoffman is a pretty low bar. I think the issue is that expectations are much higher for Drouin given that he was a high draft pick and we gave up Sergachev to get him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DON Posted October 25, 2022 Share Posted October 25, 2022 8 minutes ago, Habs Fan in Edmonton said: That's probably true but better than Dadonov and Hoffman is a pretty low bar. I think the issue is that expectations are much higher for Drouin given that he was a high draft pick and we gave up Sergachev to get him. And he is just such a soft player, who is basically useless outside of the offensive zone. But, seems you always end up with 1 of those on most teams. But Hoffman & Drouin combined is overkill and their coasting around on the ice (till see a loose puck) not breaking a sweat ever, is hard to stomach game after game. But, at least Drouin is very smart playmaker and Hoffman has a wicked shot, i suppose. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hab29RETIRED Posted October 26, 2022 Share Posted October 26, 2022 4 hours ago, DON said: Why would you think this? From everything I’ve read, a lot of issues with Monohon’s health is from how his injuries were handled, that’s different from Gallagher, who’s hand injuries aside, is at greater risk from his kamikaze style of play. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hab29RETIRED Posted October 26, 2022 Share Posted October 26, 2022 5 hours ago, Commandant said: Drouin is playing better than he's being given credit for. He's been far better than both Hoffman and Dadonov who aren't getting near as many comments about their poor defence and soft play. I'm not saying he's perfect, but he's been the best of those three at both ends of the ice. I think it has more to do with how they were acquired. I don’t like Hoffman, and never wanted him signed - certainly not for the term we signed him for, but he only cost us cap space. Dadonov is useless, but was necessary to get out of Webers contract, but at least he is only here for a year, and there is still the potential to get an asset for him. Drouin is a different kettle of fish. I hated the high cost for Drouin, hated the trade, and the contract he was handed. He is not only not with his cap hit, he will always have the weight of Sergechev to deal with. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commandant Posted October 26, 2022 Share Posted October 26, 2022 14 hours ago, hab29RETIRED said: I think it has more to do with how they were acquired. I don’t like Hoffman, and never wanted him signed - certainly not for the term we signed him for, but he only cost us cap space. Dadonov is useless, but was necessary to get out of Webers contract, but at least he is only here for a year, and there is still the potential to get an asset for him. Drouin is a different kettle of fish. I hated the high cost for Drouin, hated the trade, and the contract he was handed. He is not only not with his cap hit, he will always have the weight of Sergechev to deal with. Meh... who cares what they were acquired for? We cant change the past, we can only deal.with this going forward and Drouin has been the best of the three and its not particularly close. None of the three are the long term solution for the team but we cant evaluate them based on how they were acquired. The only thing relevant is what we can move them for at the deadline and sergachev trade, weber trade, and FA acquisition or not is irrelevant. All that matters is how they are playing and what the contract is. Drouin should play the most of the three cause hes playing the best and has the potential for the best trade return. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alfredoh2009 Posted October 26, 2022 Share Posted October 26, 2022 9 minutes ago, Commandant said: Meh... who cares what they were acquired for? We cant change the past, we can only deal.with this going forward and Drouin has been the best of the three and its not particularly close. None of the three are the long term solution for the team but we cant evaluate them based on how they were acquired. The only thing relevant is what we can move them for at the deadline and sergachev trade, weber trade, and FA acquisition or not is irrelevant. All that matters is how they are playing and what the contract is. Drouin should play the most of the three cause hes playing the best and has the potential for the best trade return. I believe it is a smart decision from the coaching staff to play Dach with Drouin and Anderson. They are not producing ~*YET*~ but are showing progress. If Drouin can feed the two others to score, that line will be dangerous. If Dach does not improve on FO% and on production playing with those two, he sill e a winder before long. In all cases, Dach is playing with two of the better wingers outside of Caufield Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomh009 Posted October 26, 2022 Share Posted October 26, 2022 16 minutes ago, Commandant said: None of the three are the long term solution for the team but we cant evaluate them based on how they were acquired. The only thing relevant is what we can move them for at the deadline and sergachev trade, weber trade, and FA acquisition or not is irrelevant. All that matters is how they are playing and what the contract is. Thank you. Sending Sergachev for Drouin is water under the bridge. So are the draft picks we gave up for Dvorak. And the first-rounder that we received for taking Monahan's contract. And who drafted or traded for whom. What matters is how they are playing today, and what their future potential is. (And, yes, their contracts.) And I fully expect that Hugo are smart enough managers to know that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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