tomh009 Posted April 3 Share Posted April 3 10 minutes ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said: I hear you! Although to be fair, 72 points is a nice total, and Domi did have a stellar year that season. Slick Nick looks set to pass Saku, and as much as I love Saku, Suzuki is a better overall player than he was. What a gem. Koivu might have been more impactful, too, but sadly we never did find out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Chicoutimi Cucumber Posted April 3 Share Posted April 3 9 minutes ago, tomh009 said: Koivu might have been more impactful, too, but sadly we never did find out. Years ago, on this very site, I crunched a bunch of numbers on Koivu and discovered that he produced like a PPG player, except that he would have long slumps of, like 10-15 games per season where he would basically produce nothing. 🤷♂️ Hence the endless argument over whether he was a #1A or a #2C. The other thing about him was that (with all due respect to Commandant) he was a playoff beast. I mean, he put Joe Thornton in his back pocket even while playing through a cracked rib. The tragedy of Koivu, as I’ve lamented many times, is that he was never the same after his knee was destroyed. I am sure he could have been a top-10 player if not for that. He was that dominant before the knee injury. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commandant Posted April 3 Share Posted April 3 25 minutes ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said: Years ago, on this very site, I crunched a bunch of numbers on Koivu and discovered that he produced like a PPG player, except that he would have long slumps of, like 10-15 games per season where he would basically produce nothing. 🤷♂️ Hence the endless argument over whether he was a #1A or a #2C. The other thing about him was that (with all due respect to Commandant) he was a playoff beast. I mean, he put Joe Thornton in his back pocket even while playing through a cracked rib. The tragedy of Koivu, as I’ve lamented many times, is that he was never the same after his knee was destroyed. I am sure he could have been a top-10 player if not for that. He was that dominant before the knee injury. Thornton was the one with the bad ribs (torn cartilage prior to the 2004 series). https://www.espn.com/nhl/playoffs2004/news/story?id=1786548 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Chicoutimi Cucumber Posted April 3 Share Posted April 3 24 minutes ago, Commandant said: Thornton was the one with the bad ribs (torn cartilage prior to the 2004 series). https://www.espn.com/nhl/playoffs2004/news/story?id=1786548 LOL whoops I wonder if I'm thinking of a different series where Saks played through a significant injury - ? Ah, memory is a tricky thing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alfredoh2009 Posted April 3 Share Posted April 3 1 hour ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said: Years ago, on this very site, I crunched a bunch of numbers on Koivu and discovered that he produced like a PPG player, except that he would have long slumps of, like 10-15 games per season where he would basically produce nothing. 🤷♂️ Hence the endless argument over whether he was a #1A or a #2C. The other thing about him was that (with all due respect to Commandant) he was a playoff beast. I mean, he put Joe Thornton in his back pocket even while playing through a cracked rib. The tragedy of Koivu, as I’ve lamented many times, is that he was never the same after his knee was destroyed. I am sure he could have been a top-10 player if not for that. He was that dominant before the knee injury. I am sure that with the innovation in knee re-build/care now Koivu would be as good at Suzuki is turning out to be. Long health and many ppg season to the captain. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Chicoutimi Cucumber Posted April 3 Share Posted April 3 12 minutes ago, alfredoh2009 said: I am sure that with the innovation in knee re-build/care now Koivu would be as good at Suzuki is turning out to be. Long health and many ppg season to the captain. Probably true. Sadly. Saks went and carved a great career for himself regardless. I just wonder whether he looks back sometimes and wonders what might have been. (Then again he always struck me as the "no regrets" type). Two players it's a great shame the Habs could never win a Cup for: Saku Koivu and Carey Price. They deserved rings, each in their own way. But at least Price got to the Finals. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prime Minister Koivu Posted April 3 Share Posted April 3 Koivu elevated his game to elite levels at the Olympics and during the playoffs. Remember how dominant he was the year he got his eye carved out? He was leading the league in playoff points. Koivu always had an extra gear or two for the playoffs. Don’t think that’s “clutch” I think it’s pushing your body through injury limits (like his knee). Price did that during our cup run and so did Weber 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commandant Posted April 3 Share Posted April 3 2 hours ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said: LOL whoops I wonder if I'm thinking of a different series where Saks played through a significant injury - ? Ah, memory is a tricky thing. I think Saku may have gotten hurt in those playoffs as well, either late in the Boston series or at some point during the loss to Tampa in the following round. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hab29RETIRED Posted April 3 Share Posted April 3 4 hours ago, Commandant said: Thornton was the one with the bad ribs (torn cartilage prior to the 2004 series). https://www.espn.com/nhl/playoffs2004/news/story?id=1786548 Both had cracked riibs. The difference was the B’s made it more public when they were knocked out, while Koivu didn’t say anything and it didn’t come out until well after the playoffs. not much different than the story about Gainey playing with TWO separated shoulders in the playoffs. Difference between players like Koivu and Gainey was that they never used their injuries as an excuse. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Chicoutimi Cucumber Posted April 3 Share Posted April 3 31 minutes ago, hab29RETIRED said: Both had cracked riibs. The difference was the B’s made it more public when they were knocked out, while Koivu didn’t say anything and it didn’t come out until well after the playoffs. not much different than the story about Gainey playing with TWO separated shoulders in the playoffs. Difference between players like Koivu and Gainey was that they never used their injuries as an excuse. Ahhhh, thanks. That makes sense. In fact I have vague memories of regarding Thornton as a douche at the time for making an excuse of it, when the guy who ate him for breakfast had a similar problem. The Gainey feat was insane. Before my time, but what a legend... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commandant Posted April 4 Share Posted April 4 3 hours ago, hab29RETIRED said: Both had cracked riibs. The difference was the B’s made it more public when they were knocked out, while Koivu didn’t say anything and it didn’t come out until well after the playoffs. not much different than the story about Gainey playing with TWO separated shoulders in the playoffs. Difference between players like Koivu and Gainey was that they never used their injuries as an excuse. Even if both had them for the full series, there are also different degrees of injuries. Both are rib injuries, but they werent necessarily the same injury. We also have that thornton article saying torn cartilage not cracked ribs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Habs27 Posted April 4 Share Posted April 4 The end of this season has me hopeful for next year as we are competing with some top teams and only 1 or 2 lines going. With Dach Dvorak Roy possibly 1 forward ufa and one potential Dach/Newhook trade. Our forward lineup looks very deep and matches our def depth. Anyone else hopeful for playoffs next season? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Chicoutimi Cucumber Posted April 4 Share Posted April 4 32 minutes ago, Habs27 said: The end of this season has me hopeful for next year as we are competing with some top teams and only 1 or 2 lines going. With Dach Dvorak Roy possibly 1 forward ufa and one potential Dach/Newhook trade. Our forward lineup looks very deep and matches our def depth. Anyone else hopeful for playoffs next season? I want to believe, but I think we have to be careful about getting too excited about "competing with top teams" in the final third of a season in which we are bottom-feeders. It's notorious that bad teams sometimes look pretty good down the stretch, when they have zero pressure and when their opponents are often in snooze mode playing against them. (Even that bum Galchenyuk scored 30 goals one year playing in those conditions). The X-factor, as you note, is how HuGo will use our hoarded assets to add impact pieces over the summer. IF he makes the right moves; and IF Dach can stay reasonably healthy; and IF one of the young D (Hutson/Mailloux/Reinbacher) can make the jump; THEN we can be a bubble team. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GHT120 Posted April 4 Author Share Posted April 4 16 minutes ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said: ... I think we have to be careful about getting too excited about "competing with top teams" in the final third of a season in which we are bottom-feeders. It's notorious that bad teams sometimes look pretty good down the stretch, when they have zero pressure and when their opponents are often in snooze mode playing against them. 100% agree There are also other factors ... how many of those "good teams" were playing back-to-back against teams with whom they were competing for a playoff spot or playoff positioning, or possible first-round opponents against whom they wanted to "make a point" ... and I-M-O it matters not whether the Habs were the first of second team game in the B2B as the good team's focus would be on the other game ... then there is the matter of competing against back-up goalies in many/most games. The effort that the young players are bringing is GREAT, to be applauded and augers well for the future ... but extrapolating that to near-term future success is, as you said, a dangerous assumption. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alfredoh2009 Posted April 4 Share Posted April 4 4 hours ago, Habs27 said: The end of this season has me hopeful for next year as we are competing with some top teams and only 1 or 2 lines going. With Dach Dvorak Roy possibly 1 forward ufa and one potential Dach/Newhook trade. Our forward lineup looks very deep and matches our def depth. Anyone else hopeful for playoffs next season? I though they would have a better season this year, and if that progress had continued I had placed in the playoffs next year. So yes, I think they should be a bubble team next year. If they exorcise the injuries curse that hovers over their heads Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Habs27 Posted April 4 Share Posted April 4 Yeah I am hopeful but realistic. I know going from a bottom 5-10 team to a top 10 team is tough to do. But this is the first time in a lot of years I can see a direction and a competitive window. Bubble playoff team is how I see them if they continue this growth and asset management. When I try to calculate cap it seems like they have 19 million (with price on lite)to use. It already has me looking at a potential fit on the wing from the ufa pool. Think marchessault could be a short term option at wing? Toffoli again? And the options of young talented players that could be available seems interesting. Zegra Rossi Necas and Johnson. With the assets we have and management doing a nice job of buying at the draft I could see us grabbing one of them. We are very close to being a 3 line team. And two goalies that can win games. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BCHabnut Posted April 4 Share Posted April 4 5 hours ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said: I want to believe, but I think we have to be careful about getting too excited about "competing with top teams" in the final third of a season in which we are bottom-feeders. It's notorious that bad teams sometimes look pretty good down the stretch, when they have zero pressure and when their opponents are often in snooze mode playing against them. (Even that bum Galchenyuk scored 30 goals one year playing in those conditions). The X-factor, as you note, is how HuGo will use our hoarded assets to add impact pieces over the summer. IF he makes the right moves; and IF Dach can stay reasonably healthy; and IF one of the young D (Hutson/Mailloux/Reinbacher) can make the jump; THEN we can be a bubble team. The standings don't show it, but I think this is a better team this year than last, and I expect an improvement next season. The habs won and lost a lot of one goal games this year. While there were blowouts, they were also very competitive against good teams. They are a 1 line team right now, so I don't expect it to be quick, but the top players are all on reasonable contracts, which should mean that there will be cap space to add talent or sign players who develope within the prospect pool. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Chicoutimi Cucumber Posted April 4 Share Posted April 4 30 minutes ago, Habs27 said: Yeah I am hopeful but realistic. I know going from a bottom 5-10 team to a top 10 team is tough to do. But this is the first time in a lot of years I can see a direction and a competitive window. Bubble playoff team is how I see them if they continue this growth and asset management. When I try to calculate cap it seems like they have 19 million (with price on lite)to use. It already has me looking at a potential fit on the wing from the ufa pool. Think marchessault could be a short term option at wing? Toffoli again? And the options of young talented players that could be available seems interesting. Zegra Rossi Necas and Johnson. With the assets we have and management doing a nice job of buying at the draft I could see us grabbing one of them. We are very close to being a 3 line team. And two goalies that can win games. This is a bit out of left field, and certainly reflects my Vancouver exile from civilization, but Dakota Joshua might be an intriguing UFA option at W. A lot would depend on term (he's 27) but he's like a more consistent, game-in and game-out version of Armia - or maybe the guy MB thought he was getting when he re-signed Armia: big, physical, goes to the net, can score. (15 goals this season). He wouldn't be a big fish UFA signing but he could be a nice secondary piece. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Habs Fan in Edmonton Posted April 4 Share Posted April 4 10 minutes ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said: This is a bit out of left field, and certainly reflects my Vancouver exile from civilization, but Dakota Joshua might be an intriguing UFA option at W. A lot would depend on term (he's 27) but he's like a more consistent, game-in and game-out version of Armia - or maybe the guy MB thought he was getting when he re-signed Armia: big, physical, goes to the net, can score. (15 goals this season). He wouldn't be a big fish UFA signing but he could be a nice secondary piece. Is 15 goals for Joshua an anomaly or something that can be counted upon going forward? Armia got 16 goals in 58 games one year. But, you know Joshua a lot better than I do. He might be a great 3rd line guy for the right price. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Habs Fan in Edmonton Posted April 4 Share Posted April 4 Actually Armia just scored his 15th goal in his 59th game. Joshua is having a good year. Considering he is becoming a UFA the timing is good for him. Just a coincidence? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commandant Posted April 4 Share Posted April 4 21 minutes ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said: This is a bit out of left field, and certainly reflects my Vancouver exile from civilization, but Dakota Joshua might be an intriguing UFA option at W. A lot would depend on term (he's 27) but he's like a more consistent, game-in and game-out version of Armia - or maybe the guy MB thought he was getting when he re-signed Armia: big, physical, goes to the net, can score. (15 goals this season). He wouldn't be a big fish UFA signing but he could be a nice secondary piece. I think we have the bottom six pieces especially since its unlikely we can find trade partners for Dvorak, Anderson, Gally, and Armia so im not in favour of looking for third liners right now. Yhe focus has to be on a game breaking winger. A true first line caliber player who will fit with Dach/newhook and elevate that line. The floor here has to be what they did in 2004 in acquiring Alex Kovalev or what they did in picking up Radulov years later. Thats the level of talent we need to inject Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Chicoutimi Cucumber Posted April 5 Share Posted April 5 2 hours ago, Commandant said: I think we have the bottom six pieces especially since its unlikely we can find trade partners for Dvorak, Anderson, Gally, and Armia so im not in favour of looking for third liners right now. Yhe focus has to be on a game breaking winger. A true first line caliber player who will fit with Dach/newhook and elevate that line. The floor here has to be what they did in 2004 in acquiring Alex Kovalev or what they did in picking up Radulov years later. Thats the level of talent we need to inject Fair enough. I agree with your priority - I want an impact FW above all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prime Minister Koivu Posted April 5 Share Posted April 5 The Canadiens mathematically eliminated from the playoffs. 🎉🎂 Looking like the Habs pick in the 6-10 range with an outside chance of picking 5 if Arizona can go on a heater. Lottery is always possible but unlikely I think the Habs did play better and more consistently than last season. Our Defence in its current state is too weak to win but help is coming. Habs were competitive in most games this season and had significantly fewer listless, effortless games. Decent progress for the rebuild I think and I wonder if Suzuki has a 100 point season in him? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GHT120 Posted April 5 Author Share Posted April 5 Bill Masterton Trophy: awarded to the player who "best exemplifies perseverance, sportsmanship, and dedication to the game of hockey." Joel Armia's reaction: This season I decided to give half-a-flying-%&^# for a change. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomh009 Posted April 6 Share Posted April 6 55 minutes ago, GHT120 said: Bill Masterton Trophy: awarded to the player who "best exemplifies perseverance, sportsmanship, and dedication to the game of hockey." Joel Armia's reaction: This season I decided to give half-a-flying-%&^# for a change. Not going to ask you to like Armia, but there is more to it than that. We say that goaltending is 50% mental and the rest is in your head; much of the same applies to many other pro athletes. Armia wanted to play well, but until he started working with the Habs' mental performance coach, Francois Menard, he could not make it work. He's nominated because he didn't give up or sulk after being demoted, but worked with Menard to get to the point where he is able to consistently (at least for now) use his skills. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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