Canadiens sign Hamrlik, Smolinski & Kostopoulos

[Chris]

Can you guys wait until they atleast play one game before you guys start bashing them.

Know matter what BG does half of you will think it stinks, the other half will like or atleast see what happens.

For a team that was bottom 5 in the league defensively, it is an upgrade and only time will tell this year what happens.

[The Chicoutimi Cucumber]

*stumbles across this gem of a post*

I'd be careful knocking a team that finished better then yours. 44-31-7 sucks ass? Peter Budaj seems to look like a goalie to me if that helmet and pads are any indication as well.

I don't pretend to follow the Habs, don't pretend you follow the Avs.

LOL I knew someone would call me on that.

OK, 'sucks ass' was a little harsh. But the Avs had basically the same record as Montreal and finished out of the playoffs. They had a great second half; Montreal had a great first half. So how can Smyth look at them and go, 'wow, they're light years ahead of Montreal as an organization'?

The answer is: he can't. It's a move based purely on reputation, and that reputation is not based on current facts but past achievements. This is a point I made in other threads - I don't think players are particularly keen analysts of teams and cities other than their own. They gravitate to clubs like Colorado, Philly, Toronto, etc., because those teams have an aura as quality organizations that has everything to do with the last ten years and nothing to do with present realities.

What drives me crazy is that by signing with Colorado, Smyth helps to propel them into a place where they are, indeed, significantly ahead of the Habs. He fulfills his own misguided prophecy.

Anyway, didn't wanna hijack the thread. Back to flogging Bob for signing Hamrlik, everyone.

[The Chicoutimi Cucumber]

one more point i want to add is that if the habs were going to over-pay, i would much preferred them tendering an offer sheet to an RFA rather then the UFA's they signed. Preferably one in their own conferance, so that if the other team does end up matching they may get screwed by being up against the cap.

I would have preferred them offering the $7.5M they spent to someone like Vanek.

Can we puh-lease give up on this wheezing fantasy of Bob signing an RFA? One thing defines Bob Gainey above all else and that is CLASS. He will not be the arsehole to shatter the gentleman's agreement not to poach other teams' RFAs. Also, as a team with a fair bit of young talent, the last thing we need is to provoke other clubs into making huge offers to people like Higgins and Pleks and Kostityn and, when he comes up, Carey Price.

Incidentally, anyone who is frothing mad about the Smolinski signing has simply lost all perspective. We have more fairly inexpensive and short-term veteran versatility at C - oh, let's go slit our wrists! If Smolinski is outplayed by a young gun, fine, bench him. Take a pill, folks.

[hab29RETIRED]

I wasn't comparing the business in terms of revenues vs expenditures, from all angles that apparently is doing well since we're keeping pace in terms of payroll with the high end of the cap and still making money. I was going in terms of productivity (i.e. results) vs payroll. We're spending more but getting the same results.

I don't see us getting rid of one of Bouillon or Dandenault unless we acquire a new player via trade. At this point we might as well pony up for Ryder and try and get a 3 year deal done with him if that's possible, even if it's for $4m per.

We have three roster spots available for players that weren't on the NHL team at the end of the year... They could go to any combination of Lahti, O'Byrne, Grabovski, Chipchura, Ferland, Milroy, or Cote. Murray is the only guy who was on the team last year that is in jeopardy, as well as Halak with Price coming up.

I agree, with signing Ryder to a longer term deal. Personally, i'd like to see him traded for a top two centre, which would probably be easier if he was signed to a longer term deal.

[saskhab]

I agree, with signing Ryder to a longer term deal. Personally, i'd like to see him traded for a top two centre, which would probably be easier if he was signed to a longer term deal.

I don't see any top 2 C's available via trade right now. And with Smoke on board, I think we're locked into a Koivu/Plekanec 1-2 punch for next year.

I think SJ is busy trying to mend the Marleau bridge and re-sign him now that the Drury plan didn't come through.

[The Iron Lung]

Yes, enough about RFAs... how many offer sheets have been offered in the past 5 years... GMs have an unspoken rule, it's rare that it's broken.

[Habsy]

LOL I knew someone would call me on that.

OK, 'sucks ass' was a little harsh. But the Avs had basically the same record as Montreal and finished out of the playoffs. They had a great second half; Montreal had a great first half. So how can Smyth look at them and go, 'wow, they're light years ahead of Montreal as an organization'?

The answer is: he can't. It's a move based purely on reputation, and that reputation is not based on current facts but past achievements. This is a point I made in other threads - I don't think players are particularly keen analysts of teams and cities other than their own. They gravitate to clubs like Colorado, Philly, Toronto, etc., because those teams have an aura as quality organizations that has everything to do with the last ten years and nothing to do with present realities.

What drives me crazy is that by signing with Colorado, Smyth helps to propel them into a place where they are, indeed, significantly ahead of the Habs. He fulfills his own misguided prophecy.

Anyway, didn't wanna hijack the thread. Back to flogging Bob for signing Hamrlik, everyone.

Your posts have become a pleasure to read. One thing, is it possible that a stand up guy like Souray privately told Gainey he simply wants to play somewhere else. Guess we'll never know, but it seems to me that Hamrlik can easily match Souray's minutes from last year, while being more responsible defencively. His desire to head west has been mentioned thousands of times.

[Athlétique.Canadien]

If you sit down and ponder this, it stands to reason that the Smolinski acquisition signals a trade. Don't be surprised if it's Pleks and/or Ryder.

[hab29RETIRED]

Yes, enough about RFAs... how many offer sheets have been offered in the past 5 years... GMs have an unspoken rule, it's rare that it's broken.

I wouldn't call it an unspoken rule - the better word is COLLUSION.

Last year philly did make an offer to a RFA.

St Louis also offered contracts to Stevens and Shanny - albiet that was over 10 or 15 years ago.

The bottom line is that you have to do what you can within the rules. If the habs are having issues attracting UFA's, why not go after the RFA's. The habs obviously have an issue convincing UFA's to play in montreal - even when they are offering more money. They need to do something to get top players to want to come to montreal, so they have to think out of the box and conventional practices to improve their team. There is less competition for RFA's, so why not go after them. I would much rather make a huge long-term offer to a young Vanek or Martin who have their best years ahead of them, rather a guy who had a career year just before he became a UFA, but maybe getting close to being over the hill.

It makes a hell of a lot more sense giving a 23, 24 or 25 year old a 6 or 7 year deal then someone who is 29 or in his 30's.

What do you have to lose in making an offer to an RFA. IF it is a team you are chasing in the standings, and they match, you have just reduced their available cap space. The GM's have to start using the Cap to their advantage instead of being dinasours and not being willing to change with the times and system.

So far the habs are first shooting themselves (by not trying to lockup their impending free agents before they can become free agents (the way Calgary and SJ have done), and then limiting themselves to going after UFA's when it has become obvious during the last three or four years that players would rather play someone other then montreal if they are getting similar contracts from other teams. Going after RFA's would allow montreal to chase players that there isn't as much competition for.

If you sit down and ponder this, it stands to reason that the Smolinski acquisition signals a trade. Don't be surprised if it's Pleks and/or Ryder.

I think trading Pleks is a BIG MISTAKE. If you ask me he is much more complete player (is faster, looks like he has much more hockey sense) and given his age, has potentially a much bigger upside.

Edited July 3, 2007 by hab29RETIRED

[CoRvInA]

If you sit down and ponder this, it stands to reason that the Smolinski acquisition signals a trade. Don't be surprised if it's Pleks and/or Ryder.

How so... I mean the circumstances are still the same basically.. only now we have a potential 2nd Centre Smolinsli replaces Bonk on the third line if we get a top 2 Centre via trade. And if not SLomo becomes Kovalev's dance partner

What I get from this is either a trade is coming or we are gone unload a ton a youth ... 21 player roster right now... add at least 2 more Hamilton spots Boys!!!

Edited July 3, 2007 by CoRvInA

[saskhab]

If you sit down and ponder this, it stands to reason that the Smolinski acquisition signals a trade. Don't be surprised if it's Pleks and/or Ryder.

How? And there's no one really available IMO that would be a significant acquisition.

[kenadian]

Funny about he 'unwritten rule' about offer sheets to RFA's...Yet they will break the written rules about negotiating with UFA's.

GM's are CLEARLY in contact with UFA's before the deadline.......a contract can't be worked out in a couple of hours...with all the clauses etc. Heck look at when (any team) is negotiating with one of their current roster players; they could take weeks. I know the for the UFA's /GM's time is short; but there's no way they could get all the legalities worked out so quick.......

[Athlétique.Canadien]

Gainey done shopping UFA's

http://translate.google.com/translate?u=ht...Flanguage_tools

http://www.rds.ca/canadien/chroniques/232128.html

[Dutch_Habs_Fan]

I wasn't comparing the business in terms of revenues vs expenditures, from all angles that apparently is doing well since we're keeping pace in terms of payroll with the high end of the cap and still making money. I was going in terms of productivity (i.e. results) vs payroll. We're spending more but getting the same results.

thats what i ment with running the business (dealing with agents/players), you cant judge his negotiation. Maybe he's very good, how do you know. It's just a growing thing players dont want to play here, with there own reasons. And how good you are, convincing can be very hard than!

expect a try to get Marleau with Plek and Ryder...

Edited July 3, 2007 by Dutch_Habs_Fan

[saskhab]

thats what i ment with running the business (dealing with agents/players), you cant judge his negotiation. Maybe he's very good, how do you know. It's just a growing thing players dont want to play here, with there own reasons. And how good you are, convincing can be very hard than!

expect a try to get Marleau with Plek and Ryder...

There is absolutely no reason why SJ would trade Marleau now.

[Fanpuck33]

There is absolutely no reason why SJ would trade Marleau now.

Unless he feels slighted at the organization and demands a trade. I'm sure he wasn't very happy about them actively shopping him after what he's done for them.

[BCHabnut]

I think Bob did his best with what was available. He tried to sign some big names, but nobody wants to go to Montreal. I think Bob should use our cap space to make a tradee in the season for a star. Trade Koivu and some prospects for Vinny maybe. I don't know, but I think the only way players will come here is through trades or by coming up through the ranks.

ROOKIE CAREY PRICE CARRIES HABS

TO 2009 STANLEY CUP VICTORY

Edited July 3, 2007 by BCHabnut

[redondo]

I like the Hamrlik signing, he's definitely overpaid, but he was also a much-needed asset from a free agent pool that is dwindling by the minute. A defensive upgrade on D, can eat up a lot of minutes and we may not even need him to do as much as he did in Calgary.

And really the whole deal may force Carbo to rethink his strategy and not rely on PP as much. I also think with Souray gone we will see Markov's offensive stats get bumped, because he'll be asked to pick up some of the slack, and he should be able to do it. In fact my prediction is that Markov will be the biggest beneficiary of the defensive shuffle this year and finally gets recognized around the league as one of the best d-men in the NHL, which many Habs fans already think he is.

Smolinski I don't mind as a player, he's definitely an asset and I like that it's a 1 year deal, and frees the cap money up for next summer. However....spending money on a 3rd line player when we at least have that position covered tells me one of two things: either Gainey/Carbo don't trust Chipchura with the key role on a shutdown line yet (understandable) or there should indeed be a trade in the works. Or both.

Koivu as a #1 centre for this club is risky at best considering that his style of play does cause him to get injured often, and he is a year older. If he goes down for a couple of months, can we survive that or do we go in a tailspin again? In short, I feel this is an issue that HAS to be resolved in this offseason, and if the 2 mil given to Smolinski preclude us from getting (signing or trade) some help up the middle then it will have been a worse signing than it looks now. Definitely not a straw worth breaking the camel's back over.

And as far as not trading Souray at the deadline, don't blame Gainey, blame Carbo. The team became so reliant on his shot from the point over the course of the season, that moving him became an impossibility if the team had a chance to compete, even when you count his defensive lapses. So now the CH should be more ballanced, and don't forget that we still have what i think will be one of the most exciting training camps in years - LOTS of talented kids on the cusp, many of them with the Calder Cup fresh under their belt. There should be something there to harvest, and I think Gainey will hold on to his leftover $$$ and wait to see what shakes out there and what the most glaring hole left is before making his next move.

[ShortHanded]

from TSN:

"Currently, Gainey sees Mathieu Dandenault, Mike Komisarek and young Ryan O'Byrne on the right side, although O'Byrne may either win a job in training camp or join the team during the season. The big defenceman was a standout in the Hamilton Bulldogs' run to the Calder Cup this season. "

So O'Byrne could be here then next year.

[BTH]

Hamrlik is maybe .5-1M overpaid but we were desperate for a defenceman so signing Hamrlik for a tad extra is much much MUCH better than signing no one at all. Saying Gainey could have gotten better or should have used his money elsewhere is a waste of time, since 1) he tried to and 2) we don't know if he contacted guys like Stuart or not and if he did we don't know why they turned him down. Smolinski was a pretty solid signing. Why do people care that we gave a NTC to a third liner? The guy gets traded every deadline and doesn't like it so he was probably asking for a NTC with every team that was interested in him. And why does it matter? Trading a newly signed UFA would be suicide anyway if we hope for more UFA to sign with us in the future.

[JMMR]

Yes, enough about RFAs... how many offer sheets have been offered in the past 5 years... GMs have an unspoken rule, it's rare that it's broken.

5 years 1

10 years 3 I believe.

[Sir_Boagalott]

If Smolinki gets out played by the kids - which i think he most likely will (there is a reason this guy has been bounced around for the last few years), without a NTC we could have still moved him.

No really, teams dont pick up players who suck at the trade deadline. Teams pick up good players to make a push to the Cup!! Geeesh!!

No clue why people are bitching that Smoke got a NTC. Like said by many, Smoke has been traded so many times at the trade deadline. The poor guy must be sick of it, so he wanted a NTC so this year he wont have to move and have that potential of not seeing his family for several months during the playoffs. It's really that simple.

[Pierre the Great]

got to love this thread. People bitching about Gainey signing people. And you wonder why people don't want to play here..

[Athlétique.Canadien]

got to love this thread. People bitching about Gainey signing people. And you wonder why people don't want to play here..

Grade: + 1,000

Pierre KNOWS!

Edited July 3, 2007 by ATHLÉTIQUE.CANADIEN

[smon]

got to love this thread. People bitching about Gainey signing people. And you wonder why people don't want to play here..

While I also don't agree with bashing the Smolinski signing, I think you seriously are way offbase if you think players don't want to play here because of the fans. The fans are what have truly made the Canadiens stand apart from the Nashville Predators of the league for so many years. :hlogo:

If you want to blame the media with their insatiable desire for a francophone player, go right ahead...but if you're trying to blame the fans, the very same people who put their hard earned money on the line each year to root for a team and the very same people who have allowed all these players to get paid millions upon millions of dollars, then you're definitely going to hear it from me. 'Nuff said.