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1 hour ago, DON said:

The Jets? And they have won what exactly

Leafs spend to cap and has it helped them at all? They won all of 2 playoff games more than Habs last year.

Flames have spent and where are they headed.:popcorn:

I am sorry I guess mediocrity here in habs land is the new bar. gone are the days of it better be a cup Championship or your in trouble.

 

I have seen other gm's getting fired for missing the playoffs just once. But here in Montreal it has become ok not to make the playoffs. Its pretty sad.

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Just now, Habsfan89 said:

I am sorry I guess mediocrity here in habs land is the new bar. gone are the days of it better be a cup Championship or your in trouble.

 

I have seen other gm's getting fired for missing the playoffs just once. But here in Montreal it has become ok not to make the playoffs. Its pretty sad.

 

You're aware that there are 31 teams in a salary cap right? We aren't the NY Yankees that can spend a trillion dollars on players and pay a luxury tax. Parity. Get used to it or be miserable 

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10 minutes ago, illWill said:

 

You're aware that there are 31 teams in a salary cap right? We aren't the NY Yankees that can spend a trillion dollars on players and pay a luxury tax. Parity. Get used to it or be miserable 

 

Exactly, managing the cap wisely is not easy.  If every GM was fired for missing the playoffs once there would be a lot of GM openings every year. 

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12 minutes ago, illWill said:

 

You're aware that there are 31 teams in a salary cap right? We aren't the NY Yankees that can spend a trillion dollars on players and pay a luxury tax. Parity. Get used to it or be miserable 

Its about spending and getting talent to win. Its  not about signing only bottom level talent in hopes they can be 1st line players over night.

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6 hours ago, Commandant said:

 

He also made an offer on Gardiner, who took less money per year in Carolina. 

 

And thank goodness for that as well because Gardiner is having a tough time in Carolina. Sometimes not getting the player is actually a good thing.

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39 minutes ago, illWill said:

 

You're aware that there are 31 teams in a salary cap right? We aren't the NY Yankees that can spend a trillion dollars on players and pay a luxury tax. Parity. Get used to it or be miserable 

 

Reality is hard for some apparently, you can't spend over the cap. 

 

You also can't snap fingers and just make a player available.  What top LHD was traded this past summer, or early this season?  Who should we have gone after and Bergevin missed out on?

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My times have changed, we have become ok with mediocrity as long as we don't spend cap money. They're are gm's who have had success wining cups in this cap world making smart trades and smart UFA signings. But hey we have cap space who needs a cup.

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Exactly, havent been relevant in 25 years

 

 

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7 minutes ago, Habsfan89 said:

My times have changed, we have become ok with mediocrity as long as we don't spend cap money. They're are gm's who have had success wining cups in this cap world making smart trades and smart UFA signings. But hey we have cap space who needs a cup.

 

Who should the cap space have been spent on?

 

Name the player.

 

Also show how the deal is short, cause if not, that lack of cap space will mean Domi or Kotkaniemi or Gallagher are leaving this team when they become FAs in the next two years. 

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32 minutes ago, Commandant said:

 

Who should the cap space have been spent on?

 

Name the player.

 

Also show how the deal is short, cause if not, that lack of cap space will mean Domi or Kotkaniemi or Gallagher are leaving this team when they become FAs in the next two years. 

I just find it funny that everyone gives Bergevin a pass. 8 years of the same old shit. Like I said it's not about wining and wining a cup anymore and some how everyone is ok with it. Hey here's to 10 more years of Bergevin and his cap space. Who needs a cup we have 24 of them that's plenty.

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4 minutes ago, Habsfan89 said:

I just find it funny that everyone gives Bergevin a pass. 8 years of the same old shit. Like I said it's not about wining and wining a cup anymore and some how everyone is ok with it. Hey here's to 10 more years of Bergevin and his cap space. Who needs a cup we have 24 of them that's plenty.

 

I don't think everyone is giving Bergevin a pass, he has made mistakes no question. I prefer to focus on what he should do going forward in an era where teams are limited by the salary cap.  At the least the last couple years he has accumulated draft picks and accumulated some good young talent. The only way you can win in this salary cap world is having some good young players on entry level contracts to give you some flexibility. 

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28 minutes ago, Habsfan89 said:

I just find it funny that everyone gives Bergevin a pass. 8 years of the same old shit. Like I said it's not about wining and wining a cup anymore and some how everyone is ok with it. Hey here's to 10 more years of Bergevin and his cap space. Who needs a cup we have 24 of them that's plenty.

 

So basically you want to criticize and when someone calls you on it to back up your point, you make up a straw man argument that people don't care about winning (which no one has said). 

 

Meh... i'm bored with you... bring an actual argument that isn't a strawman, or it will be on the ignore list with your bretheren, metallica. 

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At least the downvote wars are history. :)

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The hard push recruitment for the "Bergevin sux!" team is way too soon. It's gonna take more than a losing streak before everyone joins you in a frothing tizzy of abject negativity for the team like we were in 17-18. 

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14 hours ago, Habsfan89 said:

Why is our team being run like a small market team? We should be run like the big market team that we are. Spend to the cap every year add top end talent To the team. Don't put AHL players on the team and say hey as long as Price doesn't let in any goals all season we should be fine. Because that's  Exactly  what's been happening here since Price became an elite player in this league.

Because of the taxes and the exchange rate which puts it at a disadvantage. In addition, the extra media scrutiny has discouraged many players including Gardiner.

 

By stashing money and building prospect depth, MB has moved the team to a position of strength for when the right opportunity arises.

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14 hours ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said:

 

Most organizations would not wait seven years to acquire a legitimate top-6 C, when their existing top-6 C are Desharnais and Pleks. Our guy's strategy was basically to wait until both of those guys aged out and the entire franchise cratered because we had ZERO top-6 C. Mission accomplished.

 

Most organizations probably would not wait three years to replace their top LD, either. Yet MB is entering 2 1/2 years of no Markov replacement. His strategy appears to be to duplicate the winning strategy he adopted at C, i.e., do absolutely nothing meaningful, because it's too "tough."

 

I don't care if we spend to the cap or not. I just want glaring structural problems addressed. Seems to me that's a huge part of what GMs are supposed to do. Our guy is just fine at tinkering around with the bottom parts of the roster; he's quite good at that, in fact. But when it comes to huge roster holes, he acts with all the urgency and alacrity of your average three-toed sloth.

The CH is not like "Most Organisations".  There is the taxation side, the media pressure, the "historied franchise" ball and chain and the French-language handicap.

 

Like it has been posted here before, to have a chance the CH has to build through the draft, develop a core group with a few elite players and some trades to patch the holes. MB has been doing that in his last reset, his third attempt at this. 

 

The CH doesn't have elite prospects outside of Caufield, and it is too soon to know for sure about him. 

 

Petry was a great trade to fill one big hole on RD. Kotkaniemi, Poehling, Vejdemo and Suzuki are a good start to address that hole. We have one elite RD and one elite G. We do not have elite scoring wingers. 

I will be patient with this team, live through the inexperience mistake by the Mete, Fleury, Kotkaniemi, Suzuki and even Drouin/Lehkonne even if they should be better by now.

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2 hours ago, alfredoh2009 said:

Because of the taxes and the exchange rate which puts it at a disadvantage. In addition, the extra media scrutiny has discouraged many players including Gardiner.

 

By stashing money and building prospect depth, MB has moved the team to a position of strength for when the right opportunity arises.

 

 

Exactly,  I think MB has finally realized his best chance of success is building from within, overpaying for guys like Alzner (big mistake) sets you back.  Not saying that you don't jump in when the right free agent opportunity is available but it's harder as mentioned for the Habs to get free agents without overpaying.

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54 minutes ago, alfredoh2009 said:

The CH is not like "Most Organisations".  There is the taxation side, the media pressure, the "historied franchise" ball and chain and the French-language handicap.

 

Like it has been posted here before, to have a chance the CH has to build through the draft, develop a core group with a few elite players and some trades to patch the holes. MB has been doing that in his last reset, his third attempt at this. 

 

The CH doesn't have elite prospects outside of Caufield, and it is too soon to know for sure about him. 

 

Petry was a great trade to fill one big hole on RD. Kotkaniemi, Poehling, Vejdemo and Suzuki are a good start to address that hole. We have one elite RD and one elite G. We do not have elite scoring wingers. 

I will be patient with this team, live through the inexperience mistake by the Mete, Fleury, Kotkaniemi, Suzuki and even Drouin/Lehkonne even if they should be better by now.

Forget their isn’t any point . Everyone is happy with the sit back do nothing save money approach.  Don't see why we need Price, Weber, Petry , Gallagher and Tatar on this team if no one cares about wining now. We should just trade them all save all even more of the cap money and just play the kids for the next 10 years.oh well no need to go around in circleson this since wining cups don't matter anymore.

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16 hours ago, Habs Fan in Edmonton said:

I don't get why many are so focused on spending to the cap. In my opinion you spend to the cap when a good opportunity comes up, not waste it on a mediocre player that will make you marginally better. MB has made attempts but some players don't want to come here.  He has some cap room and hopefully a good opportunity will come up where he can use it wisely. He also has players coming up that will get raises (ie. Domi, Gallagher).  He has to think about that as well. 

The initial moment that led us to have unexpected cap space available was the season that both Radulov and Markov were let go. I will accept that Radulov may have decided to sign elsewhere where taxes have much less of an impact, however I don’t think it would have been unwise to offer $500k or even a million more than he was worth considering three years later we are still “waiting for that opportunity” to use our unused cap space. Radulov is one of the best Russian players to ever play the game, so if signing him is not an opportunity in your mind, then I’m not sure what would constitute as an opportunity.
 

Furthermore, our record with Markov was impregnable Compared to without him when he was on the team and while he admittedly was on his final legs, we are still looking for his replacement three years later. 
 

I don’t think there’s a single person out there who would say we should use our cap space on players that make you marginally better, so why would that be your conclusion? We should use our cap space on impact players. Free agents don’t want to sign here? Although that’s an easy excuse, if that’s the case, target teams who need to alleviate their cap issues. Make trades. Last year we ended the season with roughly 9-10 million in unused cap space. 
 

I don’t think it’s a coincidence that teams like St. Louis and Washington are roughly 1 million over the cap during their cup winning seasons. Pittsburgh had roughly 1 million available. These are the teams who have won the cup recently. No one is saying that we should spend on mediocrity. Leaving 10 million available and then “saving it” during a season where we miss the playoffs by 2 points does not seem like a correct strategy to me. It’s very hard to raise expectations to a cup aspiration, at the very least. 

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Here are the standings from the last season the Habs spent to the cap for those who are interested:

 

https://www.nhl.com/standings/2016/wildcard

 

 

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15 hours ago, Habs Fan in Edmonton said:

It would be fun if it happened, if the contract was somewhat reasonable and if Taylor has grown up since his time in Edmonton. When was the last time a high profile free agent chose Montreal over somebody else especially when that free agent would have multiple offers. He will choose the biggest offer and it won't be Montreal or New Jersey. 

 

A good article on Hall, from the NJ perspective.

https://www.allaboutthejersey.com/2019/5/1/18518163/how-much-is-taylor-hall-worth-to-the-devils-and-for-how-long

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57 minutes ago, xXx..CK..xXx said:

The initial moment that led us to have unexpected cap space available was the season that both Radulov and Markov were let go. I will accept that Radulov may have decided to sign elsewhere where taxes have much less of an impact, however I don’t think it would have been unwise to offer $500k or even a million more than he was worth considering three years later we are still “waiting for that opportunity” to use our unused cap space. Radulov is one of the best Russian players to ever play the game, so if signing him is not an opportunity in your mind, then I’m not sure what would constitute as an opportunity.
 

Furthermore, our record with Markov was impregnable Compared to without him when he was on the team and while he admittedly was on his final legs, we are still looking for his replacement three years later. 
 

I don’t think there’s a single person out there who would say we should use our cap space on players that make you marginally better, so why would that be your conclusion? We should use our cap space on impact players. Free agents don’t want to sign here? Although that’s an easy excuse, if that’s the case, target teams who need to alleviate their cap issues. Make trades. Last year we ended the season with roughly 9-10 million in unused cap space. 
 

I don’t think it’s a coincidence that teams like St. Louis and Washington are roughly 1 million over the cap during their cup winning seasons. Pittsburgh had roughly 1 million available. These are the teams who have won the cup recently. No one is saying that we should spend on mediocrity. Leaving 10 million available and then “saving it” during a season where we miss the playoffs by 2 points does not seem like a correct strategy to me. It’s very hard to raise expectations to a cup aspiration, at the very least. 

That's exactly what I am saying but no one seems to understand. I don't hate or want Bergevin fired. Just want him to get off his ass and bring in talent to improve this team.  

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7 minutes ago, Habsfan89 said:

That's exactly what I am saying but no one seems to understand. I don't hate or want Bergevin fired. Just want him to get off his ass and bring in talent to improve this team.  

 

It's not about MB getting fired any more. Even I think it would be dubious to fire him at this juncture. Now, if the Habs miss the playoffs again, then I definitely think that should be on the table.

 

alfredoh's patient "let's build from within" approach is defensible on its own terms, but - again - totally overlooks the fact that our best players are all well into their 30s. It also overlooks the fact that this current team has a fair bit going for it (despite our immediate woes). There is absolutely no excuse for leaving the team to fester as a bubble team for two years in a row. Continuous improvement should be the goal. Right now, we're not seeing that - just more of this "wait three years" nonsense.

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1 hour ago, Habsfan89 said:

Forget their isn’t any point . Everyone is happy with the sit back do nothing save money approach.  Don't see why we need Price, Weber, Petry , Gallagher and Tatar on this team if no one cares about wining now. We should just trade them all save all even more of the cap money and just play the kids for the next 10 years.oh well no need to go around in circleson this since wining cups don't matter anymore.

I am not saying I am happy with the status quo. I am saying that the right opportunity has not arrived yet.

There will be changes to the lineup this year for sure

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