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Metallica

Galchenyuk traded for Domi

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35 minutes ago, Commandant said:

Also i wouldn't be against trading galchenyuk if he filled a need.  But getting a less talented player at the same position is lunacy

 

Well, exactly.

 

The issue is not that Domi utterly sucks or is unlikable. That's a red herring.

 

Nor is it that Galchenyuk was some untouchable superman. That's also a red herring.

 

It's that the trade accomplished nothing in terms of addressing actual roster holes and does not represent an upgrade even at the LW position. As with the Weber deal, the absolute best that can be said for it - the absolute most optimistic interpretation - is that it's a lateral move. In fact this is what the tiny number of defenders of the trade are saying. "Domi has similar PPG totals." As if this is a defence of the trade. So great, best case scenario, we traded a second-line LW for another second-line LW. WHY? Meanwhile, anyone with a brain can see that Galchenyuk has the higher ceiling. So we are taking most of the risk in this deal because we surrendered the players who has 30-goal, 70+ point potential...and can play C to boot.

 

The rhetorical strategies of Bergevin and his supine cheerleaders are well-worn and all too familiar:

 

1. "Player X is gone, stop complaining and celebrate that we have Player Y!" In other words, suspend all critical thought about whether X is better than Y.

2. The player we traded away had all kinds of intangible negatives we don't know about. This makes the player we got back "better" on some sort of metaphysical level even though he is not actually better on the ice.

3. The players we got back is "about as good" as the player we traded, so the trade is Jim Dandy, even though it in no way makes the team better, which is the whole point of making a trade.

 

One new wrinkle is the move whereby Domi's struggles are excused because of the bad Arizona environment, while Galchenyuk's struggles are entirely his own fault, even though the Habs have a track record of being unable to work with talented young players and turning them into a "problem" that has to be "solved" (Subban). This line of argument also ignores that the Habs had about the same record as "basket case" Arizona :rolleyes:

 

If I wanted to defend the trade, I'd say this: Domi is more of a playmaker than Galy. If the team needs a playmaker more than it needs a goalscorer, that's at least some sort of way to justify the move. Just don't give me this crap about "intangibles" or that we're supposed to love everything the Habs do no matter how stupid it is.

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8 minutes ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said:

 

Well, exactly.

 

The issue is not that Domi utterly sucks or is unlikable. That's a red herring.

 

Nor is it that Galchenyuk was some untouchable superman. That's also a red herring.

 

It's that the trade accomplished nothing in terms of addressing actual roster holes and does not represent an upgrade even at the LW position. As with the Weber deal, the absolute best that can be said for it - the absolute most optimistic interpretation - is that it's a lateral move. In fact this is what the tiny number of defenders of the trade are saying. "Domi has similar PPG totals." As if this is a defence of the trade. So great, best case scenario, we traded a second-line LW for another second-line LW. WHY? Meanwhile, anyone with a brain can see that Galchenyuk has the higher ceiling. So we are taking most of the risk in this deal because we surrendered the players who has 30-goal, 70+ point potential...and can play C to boot.

 

The rhetorical strategies of Bergevin and his supine cheerleaders are well-worn and all too familiar:

 

1. "Player X is gone, stop complaining and celebrate that we have Player Y!" In other words, suspend all critical thought about whether X is better than Y.

2. The player we traded away had all kinds of intangible negatives we don't know about. This makes the player we got back "better" even though he is not actually better on the ice.

3. The players we got back is "about as good" as the player we traded, so the trade is Jim Dandy, even though it in no way makes the team better, which is the whole point of making a trade.

 

One new wrinkle is the move whereby Domi's struggles are excused because of the bad Arizona environment, while Galchenyuk's struggles are entirely his own fault, even though the Habs have a track record of being unable to work with talented young players and turning them into a "problem" that has to be "solved" (Subban).

 

If I wanted to defend the trade, I'd say this: Domi is more of a playmaker than Galy. If the team needs a playmaker more than it needs a goalscorer, that's at least some sort of way to justify the move. Just don't give me this crap about "intangibles" or that we're supposed to love everything the Habs do no matter how stupid it is.

Good post. 

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10 minutes ago, Chris said:

Montreal is also a dumpster fire.

 

 

Thanks.

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49 minutes ago, nihilz said:

Both players .6 ppg. Chucky unable to secure a roster spot with multiple coaches.

 

I mean Julien, Therien,  was there really much difference between the two? Also, I didn't downvote  you, I welcome different opinions even if I think they are full of crazy. As with all habs players that have been moved because they weren't the 'right fit', I hope he does very well in Arizona, and I wont boohoo Domi, that doesn't mean I will be happy with this trade. The whole 'trust the management' line has been so overplayed at this point, any trust that may have been there is gone, way gone.

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Montreal scored 209 goals last year.  Arizona scored 208.  Dont tell me that Domis lower goal production is because he played in arizona.

 

Domi also benefits from empty netters which chucky didnt get.  He scored all of 5 goals against real goalies.

 

Nicolas deslauriers was a better goal scorer.

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3 minutes ago, Commandant said:

Montreal scored 209 goals last year.  Arizona scored 208.  Dont tell me that Domis lower goal production is because he played in arizona.

 

Domi also benefits from empty netters which chucky didnt get.  He scored all of 5 goals against real goalies.

 

Nicolas deslauriers was a better goal scorer.

 

:1vomit::1vomit::1vomit::1vomit::1vomit::1vomit::1vomit::1vomit:

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I dislike the move but I do believe that Domi will do better with us than he did in Arizona. He’s still young.

 

 

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3 minutes ago, xXx..CK..xXx said:

I dislike the move but I do believe that Domi will do better with us than he did in Arizona. 

 

 

I have to ask why you think that? The current coaches have proven they cannot work well with youth players, this move is like treating the symptoms not the cause, and the cause is the coaches. Changing to Julien from Therien didn't seem to do anything.

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I’m thinking back to the hype of Domi’s rookie season and I can’t help but think that Bergevin is sitting there in his office with a smug smile on his face thinking to himself that the fan base will eventually see how this was a steal for the Habs. 

 

I don’t usually like to make up hypothetical scenarios but based on things that Bergevin has said in the past, I can see him really thinking that right now. It’s certainly a possible outcome, but I’m not sure why that would actually be anyone’s expectation at this point. 

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12 minutes ago, bar said:

I have to ask why you think that? The current coaches have proven they cannot work well with youth players, this move is like treating the symptoms not the cause, and the cause is the coaches. Changing to Julien from Therien didn't seem to do anything.

I really do think that because of the Arizona factor. People are talking trash about the current version of the Habs and while it may be true, this doesn’t change the fact that Domi sees himself going to an original six franchise with a storied history. Arizona hasn’t been competitive and so it can be hard to get up in the morning in the desert for a non competitive hockey team. I also don’t think he’s out there reading all these negative comments about the Habs. Especially considering he’s part of a deal that led to negative comments. 

 

I also mentioned his age. He’s about to hit his prime. 

 

As for the coaching, if anything this is the type of player that Julien usually likes. He’s not big, but he’s feisty. If one were to worry that we’re acquiring a specific mould of player based on Julien and Bergevin’s vision, I can agree with that. But I do think Domi fits the type of player Julien may appreciate. 

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22 minutes ago, xXx..CK..xXx said:

I really do think that because of the Arizona factor. People are talking trash about the current version of the Habs and while it may be true, this doesn’t change the fact that Domi sees himself going to an original six franchise with a storied history. Arizona hasn’t been competitive and so it can be hard to get up in the morning in the desert for a non competitive hockey team. I also don’t think he’s out there reading all these negative comments about the Habs. Especially considering he’s part of a deal that led to negative comments. 

 

I also mentioned his age. He’s about to hit his prime. 

 

As for the coaching, if anything this is the type of player that Julien usually likes. He’s not big, but he’s feisty. If one were to worry that we’re acquiring a specific mould of player based on Julien and Bergevin’s vision, I can agree with that. But I do think Domi fits the type of player Julien may appreciate. 

 

Good post.

 

Look at what Julien did for Marchand, now I am not saying Domi will turn out the way Marchand has but their rookie seasons were quite similar and like I said if he can build on that under Julien and now Ducharme.. well let’s s just that would grand!

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Domi is one year younger.  One year.  If hes just starting his prime, where does that put Galchenyuk?

 

Also his rookie year was before his serious hand injury.  His goal totals and that hand injury seem related.

 

This hand injury could go two ways.  Maybe its like gallagher and he gets it back.  Maybe its like alzner and his wife has to open jars for him cause he cant do it.  Why would you do a trade taking a chance on that though? Sure if we were getting him for cheap i would say worth the risk.  With chucky?  Nope, i wouldnt say it wasnt worth it

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Here’s a question...... If we really wanted domi couldn't we just offer him a contract since he was a RFA?  I know you run the risk of PHX matching it but maybe they don't. 

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Domi has been in the league for only three years where Galchenyuk has been for six and one could say he is actually an NHL veteran, while Domi is still considered a rookie.

 

The hand injury is definitely a concern but towards the end of the season last year Domi did quite well for himself in regards to points, he is also more of a play maker than a shooter something we actually need more of.

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2 hours ago, Commandant said:

If galchenyuk is just a cammalleri clone.  Does that make Domi the new Rene Bourque.

 

9 goals a year is about what Bourque was capable of.

 

The cammalleri trade should be a lesson to not trade away talent for lesser talent with intangibles... we got hosed on that deal.

 

I don't like this trade.  Mostly because I worry that a type one diabetic won't have consistent energy levels and they didn't fill any holes in the team.  

 

But you shouldn't cherry pick goals vs playmaking stats in one controversial trade (Subban) and then do the opposite on this one. In the Subban trade, PK had less goals but was a better playmaker.  Domi is the better playmaker in this trade. Again,  I don't believe montreal should have made this trade.  I just don't think we should discount Domi's playmaking ability.

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9 minutes ago, BCHabnut said:

I don't like this trade.  Mostly because I worry that a type one diabetic won't have consistent energy levels and they didn't fill any holes in the team.  

 

But you shouldn't cherry pick goals vs playmaking stats in one controversial trade (Subban) and then do the opposite on this one. In the Subban trade, PK had less goals but was a better playmaker.  Domi is the better playmaker in this trade. Again,  I don't believe montreal should have made this trade.  I just don't think we should discount Domi's playmaking ability.

IF Galchenyuk had to be traded, 1) it had to be for a centre or a top LD, 2) even if Domi was someone they really wanted and think can be better than Galchenyuk, they should have been able to get picks or another player back.

 

if the deal was for Strome, I still would not have liked it, because quite frankly none of the Strome’s have managed to do anything at the NHL level, but at least I could understand the deal, rolling the dice on a potential top 6 centre.  Trading him straight up for Domi, who had even worse year, make zero sense.  This is a mike milbury move and when MB’s time in Montreal finally ends, that’s who he will be compared to,

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1 hour ago, bar said:

I have to ask why you think that? The current coaches have proven they cannot work well with youth players, this move is like treating the symptoms not the cause, and the cause is the coaches. Changing to Julien from Therien didn't seem to do anything.

The new coaches will adore Domi, because of the “intangibles”. He’ll be given chances Galchenyuk was not.

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On 6/15/2018 at 9:42 PM, Chris said:

I knew he was moving, Pacs also. 

 

Please tell me Domi is an actual center, i assume he is a smurf as well

 

A Domi in Montreal? Won't that cause a dangerous drop in the city's average IQ level? 

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On 6/15/2018 at 10:10 PM, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said:

 

:lol:

 

This GM doesn't make trades to improve the team, he makes teades to get rid of players who, for arbitrary and personal reasons, doesn't like.

 

The Habs are f**ked.

What does flaked mean?  :huh:

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1 hour ago, Metallica said:

Here’s a question...... If we really wanted domi couldn't we just offer him a contract since he was a RFA?  I know you run the risk of PHX matching it but maybe they don't. 

 

They could in theory (the player has to sign it too) but when was the last time an offer sheet was signed? 

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26 minutes ago, Toronthab said:

A Domi in Montreal? Won't that cause a dangerous drop in the city's average IQ level? 

 

Bergevin actually used Tie Domi's time in Toronto as an argument for why Max Domi will be good for Montreal.

 

The IQ was already low.

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2 hours ago, Commandant said:

Domi is one year younger.  One year.  If hes just starting his prime, where does that put Galchenyuk?

 

Also his rookie year was before his serious hand injury.  His goal totals and that hand injury seem related.

 

This hand injury could go two ways.  Maybe its like gallagher and he gets it back.  Maybe its like alzner and his wife has to open jars for him cause he cant do it.  Why would you do a trade taking a chance on that though? Sure if we were getting him for cheap i would say worth the risk.  With chucky?  Nope, i wouldnt say it wasnt worth it

That’s a two way street... 

galchenyuk has had already 1 full reconstruct of the one knee and has re injured it once since as well as injuring his other knee... do claims could be made that he’s just as damaged if not more so...

 

 

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2 hours ago, Commandant said:

Domi is one year younger.  One year.  If hes just starting his prime, where does that put Galchenyuk?

 

Also his rookie year was before his serious hand injury.  His goal totals and that hand injury seem related.

 

This hand injury could go two ways.  Maybe its like gallagher and he gets it back.  Maybe its like alzner and his wife has to open jars for him cause he cant do it.  Why would you do a trade taking a chance on that though? Sure if we were getting him for cheap i would say worth the risk.  With chucky?  Nope, i wouldnt say it wasnt worth it

The comparison was not with Galchenyuk. The question was why I think Domi will do better in Montreal than Arizona. I do pick and choose my battles based on real belief because I did not express the same opinion with Drouim once we acquired him. I thought his hype was overblown (his stats will rise because he’s the new Richard or Lafleur) even though he also can be elite. Domi is a worse player than Drouin but I can perfectly see that his numbers will improve from Arizona. One of those reasons is because he is still young. Nothing to do with Galchenyuk or why the trade was made. 

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Heres hoping for chucky being the new Erat and Domi the new Forsberg

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At the end of the day... galchenyuk is currently more valuable hence we should of got more... 

 

 

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