What in the world is going on?

[REV-G]

Throughout the 2014-15 season we stayed at or near the top of our conference for most of the year. We were one of the better teams.

We started out this season as the best team in the entire league. But in the past 6-7 weeks I believe we have the worst record in the entire league. Last night we lost to the worst team in the league. Four days ago we barely beat a Leafs team also near the bottom of the league and we're falling like a rock in the standings. Who knows where the bottom will be. What's going on?? So I've listed some possible reasons as to why we're in this position.

1. Injuries: last year maybe we really did dodge a bullet with having so few injuries. This year we've lost our best player for

much of the season, plus Gallagher, plus Gilbert, plus others players for a few games here and there. Some have said

that once Carey Price is back, his goaltending, key saves, his ability with the puck, the confidence he'll restore to the

team, will all add up to us getting back to where we were.

2. The Coach: we've heard it all. MT's system is wrong, lines are wrong, he's using players incorrectly, Alex Galchenyuk

should be our first line center, using Markov on 3 on 3's and giving him too much ice time, too much mixing of lines. But

the players have not seemed to have quit on him. From what I've heard, they still speak respectfully [highly??] of him.

3. Some players have hit their "expiry" dates at the same time. There have been players such as Plekanec, Desharnais,

Markov, Eller, among others, who have either lost a step, stopped scoring or just not played very well. Has MB held on to

them too long or expected more than what they can give and now we are in need of half of our top 6 to be upgraded

before we can get back to where we were?

4. Marc Bergevin has not supplied the players we need: we struggled to score last year and other than 2 months this

year, the same problem has reoccurred. MB should have traded or moved some players and now we are in this dilemma

with no easy solutions on the horizon. He's worked on upgrading the D [Petry, Beaulieu] and the 3d and fourth lines

[Weise, Byron....], but our most glaring need, scoring, he's not done much to improve. Those are the things I've hard and

read.

Personally, my biggest concern is if #3 and #4 are the real reason for our sudden decline. If #1 is the problem things will start to get better once Price returns and we'll make the playoffs and maybe even return to last year's form. I think we were overachieving at the beginning of this season and maybe it's not realistic to expect to be back again at that level this year. If it's #2 then MB will fix that this off season.

But if it is #1 we now know that our team is not good enough to do well if we don't have a lights out goaltender.

I'm interested to know what you think is the real reason for our rapid and unexpected decline these past 8 weeks or so.

[habsFan1986]

It's time to cut the payroll try and trade away markov, eller, plekanec, desharnais, emelin. Get what you can for them. I would get draft picks. Try and get as high as a pick that we can so we can get some high end talent in our system. Then come July 1st we go do some shopping. Bring in some fresh blood to go along with the cord that we have in place.

[JoeLassister]

It's time to cut the payroll try and trade away markov, eller, plekanec, desharnais, emelin. Get what you can for them. I would get draft picks. Try and get as high as a pick that we can so we can get some high end talent in our system. Then come July 1st we go do some shopping. Bring in some fresh blood to go along with the cord that we have in place.

Here is the problem : the teams that will trade for Markov, Plekanec and DD are most likely teams that are pushing for a Stanley Cup and looking to add veterans with a certain level of skills to their lineup. Doing so, they will qualify for the playoffs and their draft pick will not be hight at all. Chances that we get high end talent from these picks are pretty slim.

If you want to go the Players for Picks route, then it's Galchenyuk, Gallagher and Pacioretty that you must trade.

And not at deadline, but at the drafts where real high draft picks teams could be looking for immediate help and maybe part with a 3rd or 4th overall pick for proven quality players in order to compete NOW and not in 3-4 years away from now.

[The Chicoutimi Cucumber]

I think Markov / Pleks would yield quality returns at the deadline. Pleks in particular could really solidify a contender at the C position. It doesn't have to be a pick - a quality prospect would be just fine.

In terms of the topic of this thread, one theme that isn't being discussed is THE ROOM. We always heard that the Habs had phenomenal chemistry. Well, something has gone sour in that respect. I don't pretend to have the answer to what that 'something' is.

My purely speculative theory is that Price is the Alpha Dog in that room, and with him gone, the internal dynamics are askew. Maybe the Beta Dogs are yapping and nipping and the pack is suffering in consequence. Or, maybe with Price not around to overawe everyone, malcontents are taking up more space.

A related speculation is that abandoning the 4-A model and giving one guy the C has adversely affected these delicate dynamics.

Then there's uglier possibilities. E.g., in one similar melt-down season (1991-92), there was a serious internal fissure and all sorts of nasty rumours.

I make no claim to know what's going on inside the room, just that a collapse of this magnitude may well be partly to do with off-ice variables like that.

[Chris]

Simple really for me, there is lack of talent, size and grit.

My favorite part of the season is when Price was officially down, the "leaders" stated they wanted to show everyone what they are made of. We now know, it's an ahl team.

[sbhatt]

Simple really for me, there is lack of talent, size and grit.

My favorite part of the season is when Price was officially down, the "leaders" stated they wanted to show everyone what they are made of. We now know, it's an ahl team.

There are those on this board who will argue that the latter two items are not important in 'today's NHL'. What I have seen on the ice with my own two eyes confirms what I have always felt...that they are mistaken.

[KoRP]

Simple really for me, there is lack of talent, size and grit.

My favorite part of the season is when Price was officially down, the "leaders" stated they wanted to show everyone what they are made of. We now know, it's an ahl team.

There are those on this board who will argue that the latter two items are not important in 'today's NHL'. What I have seen on the ice with my own two eyes confirms what I have always felt...that they are mistaken.

Hells yeah!

[sbhatt]

Hells yeah!

Some here got huffy when I'd lament the 'Smurfs' on this team. I have stopped using that term, not to appease those who objected, but because the recent efforts of this team have made me realize that I was in fact insulting Smurfs. Smurfs had far more fight in them than our small players not named Brendan Gallagher...they showed plenty of grit and resilience when battling the evil Gargamel! When the going got tough, the little blue guys dug down deep and continuted to produce....even when their leader Papa Smurf went down with a bad knee they continued to....

OK, now I'm just being silly. But hey, the way the guys have been playing, we have to entertain ourselves to some degree, right?

[hab29RETIRED]

I'd try offering pleks for drouin.

I think Markov / Pleks would yield quality returns at the deadline. Pleks in particular could really solidify a contender at the C position. It doesn't have to be a pick - a quality prospect would be just fine.

In terms of the topic of this thread, one theme that isn't being discussed is THE ROOM. We always heard that the Habs had phenomenal chemistry. Well, something has gone sour in that respect. I don't pretend to have the answer to what that 'something' is.

My purely speculative theory is that Price is the Alpha Dog in that room, and with him gone, the internal dynamics are askew. Maybe the Beta Dogs are yapping and nipping and the pack is suffering in consequence. Or, maybe with Price not around to overawe everyone, malcontents are taking up more space.

A related speculation is that abandoning the 4-A model and giving one guy the C has adversely affected these delicate dynamics.

Then there's uglier possibilities. E.g., in one similar melt-down season (1991-92), there was a serious internal fissure and all sorts of nasty rumours.

I make no claim to know what's going on inside the room, just that a collapse of this magnitude may well be partly to do with off-ice variables like that.

[Neech]

I'm starting to warm to criticisms of Therrien, although I'm still skeptical a replacement would be much better. He does seem to have trouble integrating any player who is not a fourth-line type. But hockey, to me more than most sports, is one where buy-in can trump talent, and we've got good results from a group that doesn't have that much talent up front, and by all accounts our room is a good one. Got to give Therrien his props there.

I think we've been monumentally unlucky during our slide, but it's exposed the flaws that were always there when our puck-luck was better (such as last season, where we won a bunch of games we didn't deserve to). Our list of top forwards is simply not on the level of any contender. Gallagher would be a second-liner on most teams, but we rely on him as much as anyone up front. We have Patches who has a good shot, then who? Galchenyuk can barely hit the net and he probably has the second best shot among our forward group. No one is scared of a Gallagher or Pleks wrister. We lack scorers, and we don't have a great track record of developing them. If we had managed to snag Justin Williams in the offseason I'm of the thinking that even that would have made a big difference to balance out our top-6.

[KoRP]

Some here got huffy when I'd lament the 'Smurfs' on this team. I have stopped using that term, not to appease those who objected, but because the recent efforts of this team have made me realize that I was in fact insulting Smurfs. Smurfs had far more fight in them than our small players not named Brendan Gallagher...they showed plenty of grit and resilience when battling the evil Gargamel! When the going got tough, the little blue guys dug down deep and continuted to produce....even when their leader Papa Smurf went down with a bad knee they continued to....

OK, now I'm just being silly. But hey, the way the guys have been playing, we have to entertain ourselves to some degree, right?

I hear ya man, and watching this team play, the ones who defend the smurfs are just Facebook type, Politically corrected and outraged(as well as delusional) if they think there is a single solitary reason why this isn't a young, big/strong man's league...

Habs are weak in the physical department, are and have been for years, playoffs have shown it in the end. Too many stick checks, and not enough finishing checks, the whole mentality of defense outside of Emelin, is swing the stick and fish for the puck, and that's just plain weak.

[BlueKross]

There is no doubt that this team has morphed into one of the smallest lineups in the league. That has never been good when the sledding gets tough. I think CC is on to something when he talks of the ROOM. We do know there is preferential treatment and the fruit of that usually bears it's ugly head when things aren't going well.

[dlbalr]

I'd try offering pleks for drouin.

Okay...now balance out the money as you already know Tampa can't take significantly more back then they're sending out.

[hab29RETIRED]

We had a big guy on defence named Douglas Murray, how much of an impact did he have?

Our issue is lack of talent.

I hear ya man, and watching this team play, the ones who defend the smurfs are just Facebook type, Politically corrected and outraged(as well as delusional) if they think there is a single solitary reason why this isn't a young, big/strong man's league...

Habs are weak in the physical department, are and have been for years, playoffs have shown it in the end. Too many stick checks, and not enough finishing checks, the whole mentality of defense outside of Emelin, is swing the stick and fish for the puck, and that's just plain weak.

Do they have an expiring contract? Take it on. Who knows what the end game is with Stamkos. Going forward they may end up having a lot of free room.

Okay...now balance out the money as you already know Tampa can't take significantly more back then they're sending out.

[dlbalr]

Do they have an expiring contract? Take it on. Who knows what the end game is with Stamkos. Going forward they may end up having a lot of free room.

They're not capping themselves out of re-signing Stamkos and giving up on Drouin all for the benefit of adding Plekanec. (If they got Plekanec, they couldn't afford Stamkos without sending offsetting money back for future years, an expiring deal wouldn't cut it long-term.) If they were to entertain the notion of a Plekanec/Drouin swap (and I think there's no chance of that happening), Montreal has to eat Carle's contract coming back. That means Montreal would be adding another $5.5 million to their back end for this year plus the next two...which is probably a non-starter for them.

Realistically, Tampa has to take someone on an ELC (or really close to it) or prospects/picks to make a Drouin deal work. The finances otherwise are really going to be hard to work out for both teams involved.

[KoRP]

We had a big guy on defence named Douglas Murray, how much of an impact did he have?

Our issue is lack of talent.

Do they have an expiring contract? Take it on. Who knows what the end game is with Stamkos. Going forward they may end up having a lot of free room.

WTF are you talking about?

Douglas Murray?

I am talking about for years now, #1 center was DD or Plek.

Name one other team with a #1 or #2 center so weak and small...

Douglas Murray, gimmie a freakin' break.

Always the same, the only argument against size is "the big man isn't skilled" which is BS.

When anyone could name you 100 players off the top of their heads that are big, fast and talented.

Big only needs to be 6' tall compared to these 2 punks we call #1 and #2 centers, and even worse, they are not fast either...

[habs rule]

I think Markov / Pleks would yield quality returns at the deadline. Pleks in particular could really solidify a contender at the C position. It doesn't have to be a pick - a quality prospect would be just fine.

In terms of the topic of this thread, one theme that isn't being discussed is THE ROOM. We always heard that the Habs had phenomenal chemistry. Well, something has gone sour in that respect. I don't pretend to have the answer to what that 'something' is.

My purely speculative theory is that Price is the Alpha Dog in that room, and with him gone, the internal dynamics are askew. Maybe the Beta Dogs are yapping and nipping and the pack is suffering in consequence. Or, maybe with Price not around to overawe everyone, malcontents are taking up more space.

A related speculation is that abandoning the 4-A model and giving one guy the C has adversely affected these delicate dynamics.

Then there's uglier possibilities. E.g., in one similar melt-down season (1991-92), there was a serious internal fissure and all sorts of nasty rumours.

I make no claim to know what's going on inside the room, just that a collapse of this magnitude may well be partly to do with off-ice variables like that.

I seem to recall that when they were saying they were going to have a captain, that I thought that was bad idea. The 4 A's worked. We shouldn't fix what wasn't broken. NOW it is broken. Price is the Captain (leader of this team) the 4 A's talk to the ref.

[illWill]

The worst thing about all this for me is that the Habs suck on xbox live as well. It has affected my win total so much that I am forced to play with other teams, and a piece of me dies each time.

[Toronthab]

Some here got huffy when I'd lament the 'Smurfs' on this team. I have stopped using that term, not to appease those who objected, but because the recent efforts of this team have made me realize that I was in fact insulting Smurfs. Smurfs had far more fight in them than our small players not named Brendan Gallagher...they showed plenty of grit and resilience when battling the evil Gargamel! When the going got tough, the little blue guys dug down deep and continuted to produce....even when their leader Papa Smurf went down with a bad knee they continued to....

OK, now I'm just being silly. But hey, the way the guys have been playing, we have to entertain ourselves to some degree, right?

Hahahahaha! Excellent. .. Papa Smurf.. hahahahah..

[johnnyhasbeen]

Simple fact, We need a goalie. Big time. The team is playing afraid. They start games at a high pace but as the game progresses and the score stays close they start trying not to lose instead of continuing to push. Then in the last few minurtes of the game they are once again flying in desperation. The team was winning playing high speed hockey 60 minutes a game and not worrying about turnovers. Feeling confident they would be backed up.

We should not have gone after Scrivens. He is by far the worst goalie to ever wear the Habs Jersey. Any chance Marty Brodeur could be coxed out of retirement for a bit? That is where I would have looked as soon as Price was out for 8 weeks plus. We need a true NHL goalie in nets to establish confidence back in the attack. Nothing against Condon. He has done more than we could have hoped for and would have quite the record if he had only played the backup role he was meant to play this year.Toker was no worse than Scrivens, who I thought was the worst Leaf goalie in my life.

[Commandant]

I hear ya man, and watching this team play, the ones who defend the smurfs are just Facebook type, Politically corrected and outraged(as well as delusional) if they think there is a single solitary reason why this isn't a young, big/strong man's league...

Habs are weak in the physical department, are and have been for years, playoffs have shown it in the end. Too many stick checks, and not enough finishing checks, the whole mentality of defense outside of Emelin, is swing the stick and fish for the puck, and that's just plain weak.

You know who else is a small team.... hint, they've won 3 of the last 6 cups.

Talent wins.... talent comes in all forms, big and small.... but if you have talent like Patrick Kane, Duncan Keith, and even guys like Kris Versteeg, or a guy on their current team Artemi Panarin, or grit like an Andrew Shaw.... the size doesn't matter.

Its not about being politically correct. Its about facts... and the fact is that talent wins.

[habsFan1986]

The fact is that this organization over the past 25 years has not address our needs. To many band aid trade moves to patch things up and hide behind GREAT goaltending. We have passed up on a lot of good draft picks in the draft and ufa's because of it. And this is the end result of it.

[Commandant]

A good article on the size argument.

http://edmontonjournal.com/sports/hockey/nhl/cult-of-hockey/cult-of-hockey-edmonton-oilers-must-get-bigger-because-we-all-just-keep-pretending-the-chicago-blackhawks-dont-really-exist

[The Chicoutimi Cucumber]

I don't care much about 'size' myself. However, if you are going to have a small-ish team, it has to be a team with enough speed/skill/guile to win even when the playoffs arrive and the refs pocket the whistles. That's what's wrong with a guy like Desharnais, who, apart from this horrific season, has always been productive in the regular season. He simply does not have the tools to overcome the clutching and grabbing of the playoffs. But players such as Gionta, Cammalleri, and Gallagher illustrate more than amply that size in and of itself is no obstacle to success - and then, yes, there's the Chicago Blackhawks...

[xXx..CK..xXx]

I think it's #1 and #4 out of the options listed. Carey Price got injured and we have not been supplied with the players to be able to cope with that. Tied in with that, we are worse on paper than we were in the preseason with the moves the GM did make. If Scrivens was decent, maybe there'd be no discussion.

I stopped watching last night as well. You know something's wrong with me when I still have some hope for this season though. Even with a rational thought however, I can't imagine that the team can continue to play like this for the rest of the season. That just wouldn't make any sense to me.

I will admit that the length Price is out has a huge impact on our chances. He'd probably need to come back with the next 10 games at the latest. If they keep it to within 4-6 points before his return, there's no reason to think the team wouldn't be able to make the playoffs. Without any moves between now and the deadline though, I agree that we definitely wouldn't be a contender at this point even with Price.

There are two sides of the coin but I personally don't think there's any point in being a seller at the deadline. I feel as though if we miss the playoffs, it's most likely going to be as the 9-11th seed at worst. If that's the case, I think the move is to make the team better and try to squeak in to the playoffs. There's a lot to be said in return to this comment but LA won the cup as the 8th seed. If we're going to miss the playoffs by a few points, may as well try to make our team better this year. That's just my opinion. And unless Price's injury actually requires it for optimal healing, then I doubt he sits out the rest of the season no matter what. Maybe it's the "smart" thing to do for a tank job but it's still not going to happen.

My mistake, that was meant for another thread even though it applied here as well. I was reading on my mobile and forgot what thread I had been reading once I got on my laptop.

PS: If we want to support big teams, why don't we all cheer for Carolina or Buffalo. They're wonderful teams to watch. They're nice and big on the golf course come playoff time.