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I think it was Boone who yesterday floated an old rumour that Gainey had targeted Cammy as his top off-season priority but was told Cammy wouldn't sign if Koivu was our top-C. Hence the trade for Gomez.

That rumour can't be true, because if it was then Montreal would have spoken to Cammalleri before July 1st, which isn't allowed.

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That rumour can't be true, because if it was then Montreal would have spoken to Cammalleri before July 1st, which isn't allowed.

Yeah, this never happens in teh NHL.... noone talks before noon, but players like Martin Biron negotiate an entire contract are are ready to sign at 12:15 PM.

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Late to the party, but if they trade PK I am going to lose it. We finally have a potential superstar defenseman with some gumption and enthusiasm and we need to show more patience then a 13 year old boy with his first shot at a chick...

I would also be annoyed at losing Pleks, but it depends on who we get back. He has enough history we might get a decent deal (but with PG, I doubt it). I would rather trade Des or Eller, but I don't trust PG to handle that either.

This team needs to work its way back to respectability by having the guts to lose for a bit and the guts to keep the talent, even if they are having a bad year. We are starting to look like the 80s leafs under Ballard... /shudder

I wouldn't want to move Subban either. IMO, we only have two real untouchables on this team - price and Subban. But lets say Philly came calling and were offering up two of JVR, Couturier, or Schenn and Simmonds. Do you still say no??? what if in addition to Subban all they asked for was Gill, to shore up their defence for a cup run??? A team like Philly is loaded. They have an over abundence of a mix of young up and coming players (JVR, Coutuerier, Simmonds, Voracheck, Schenn), as well as established stars (Briere, Giroux, Hartnell, Jagr) up front and good supporting forwards. However, because of Pronger's injury, they do have questions marks defense. That may make Subban so attractive they may be willing to overpay - and it may not really be an overpayment if Subban does become a Norris winner. What if they came calling and wanted to go for it all THIS YEAR and were willing to over pay, do you still say no to moving Subban???

While none of this likely, the point is no one is untouchable. I'd like a GM who will at least EXPLORE, ALL possibilities. We are at a point of total dissaray as an organzation. We have a lot of good pieces (Price, Pleks, Subban, MaxPac, Cole, AK46, Markov, Gorges, Yemelin), but organizationally, culturally, chemsitry wise we are a mess. Some sort of change is needed. We really need better leadership at the management level. A team that is willing to shake things up proactively rather then always being reacting. When LA got Gretzky, they went and explored an opperuntity no one else would have thought was possible.

Our leadership from ownership to GM is to concerned about appeasing everyone the fans, politicians, fans, rather then trying to do explore every option to make this franchise better. We used to be the model hockey franchise for the WORLD, not just the NHL. Our players were highly regarded all over the world. Tikhanov called Gainey the perfect and best hockey player. Dryden was a rock in net. We had the big three PLUS up and coming Lanway and Englom on defense. On top of that we had the most creative and explosive player in the game in Lafleur. Supporting him were Shutt, Lemaire, Cournvayer. Our depth guys were Houle, Tremblay, Risebrough. On top of that we had other offensive guys like Napier, Acton, Larouche.

That was then, this is now. For the past 10 years we have been struggling to get back to respectibility and now we are a laughing stock of the league. I don't want to just get back to respectibility. I want us to be the model franchise again. For that to happen, we need to explore all options. To do that we need a change in leadership. We need innovative guys a the helm of this ship. Gainey was a rock, but he was a reactive guy and often reacted to late and towards the end made a lot of bad decisions and lived in the "old" hockey mindset. He had a rigid philosphy (not negotiating during the season), despite the fact that he was foregoing some of the leverage offered by the CBA, by negoitating during the year. He made a lot of snappy decisions - moving Ribeiro, Grabs, supporting the crappy way that JM was dealing with SK74, moving Lats. PG has been more of the same. We need somone who is willing to do things that break with convention. I was highly critical of Tallon of the signings he did with Chicago. But he has really broke with convention on how he has rebuilt the Panthers. The only real misstep was the Horten trade.

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I think the Habs under Gainey were something approaching an exemplary organization in terms of how they ran their operation, if not always in terms of on-ice results. That's how we became a desirable UFA location and generally regarded as a strong franchise (the 'crown jewels,' to quote Ferraro a while back). Habs29 is absolutely right that we now look like a team in disarray at the highest level. It's not so much, to my mind, that the specific decisions have been so bad - it's not like Houle in that sense - but that the manner in which they've been made has seemed totally classless, scrambly, and mickey mouse.

I notice that a lot of media types - including former players - don't seem to like Gauthier much on a personal level. Which'd be OK if he were brilliant, but brilliant he hasn't been. PG may be one of these 'bright' types whose mind impresses but who simply does not know how to manage people (akin to Stéphane Dion, a politician with lots of good ideas but who couldn't 'lead' a party to save his hide). Or else, Molson is the source of the problem and we have a new Harold Ballard at the top. This is even worse, because unlike Gauthier, ownership cannot be replaced.

We'll know more by the end of the summer, I think. This whole season could be an aberration, with the weird behaviour caused by a team that unexpectedly hit the skids and drove the GM to extremes; a little good luck, some wins, and things stabilize. Or, the Goat could be fired and we start afresh. Or, Molson is the cause; and we are in for a long, long decade or two ahead: the new Toronto Maple Leafs. Interesting times.

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I think the Habs under Gainey were something approaching an exemplary organization in terms of how they ran their operation, if not always in terms of on-ice results. That's how we became a desirable UFA location and generally regarded as a strong franchise (the 'crown jewels,' to quote Ferraro a while back). Habs29 is absolutely right that we now look like a team in disarray at the highest level. It's not so much, to my mind, that the specific decisions have been so bad - it's not like Houle in that sense - but that the manner in which they've been made has seemed totally classless, scrambly, and mickey mouse.

I notice that a lot of media types - including former players - don't seem to like Gauthier much on a personal level. Which'd be OK if he were brilliant, but brilliant he hasn't been. PG may be one of these 'bright' types whose mind impresses but who simply does not know how to manage people (akin to Stéphane Dion, a politician with lots of good ideas but who couldn't 'lead' a party to save his hide). Or else, Molson is the source of the problem and we have a new Harold Ballard at the top. This is even worse, because unlike Gauthier, ownership cannot be replaced.

We'll know more by the end of the summer, I think. This whole season could be an aberration, with the weird behaviour caused by a team that unexpectedly hit the skids and drove the GM to extremes; a little good luck, some wins, and things stabilize. Or, the Goat could be fired and we start afresh. Or, Molson is the cause; and we are in for a long, long decade or two ahead: the new Toronto Maple Leafs. Interesting times.

Why do we always agree 100% on these things? Are you a long lost brother??

Gauthier's moves taken in a vacuum are good, but the way he is running the organization and the timing of everything sucks now. He needs to go.

Hve to admit though, the last sentence scares the hell out of me.

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Rumour: some other GM's were not informed of Cammi's availability because, when Gauthier sat down to talk with Cammi, the forward indicated Calgary was a destination he really liked, so when the deal came about which satisfied Gauthier, he decided to do right by Cammi at least in sending him somewhere he wanted to be.

Rumour: some other GM's were not informed of Cammi's availability because, when Gauthier sat down to talk with Cammi, the forward indicated Calgary was a destination he really liked, so when the deal came about which satisfied Gauthier, he decided to do right by Cammi at least in sending him somewhere he wanted to be.

Which, if true, means that perhaps the Goat will earn himself a slightly better reputation amongst players.

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Rumour: some other GM's were not informed of Cammi's availability because, when Gauthier sat down to talk with Cammi, the forward indicated Calgary was a destination he really liked, so when the deal came about which satisfied Gauthier, he decided to do right by Cammi at least in sending him somewhere he wanted to be.

If this is true he should be tarred and feathered.

And that's really being nice.

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Why do we always agree 100% on these things? Are you a long lost brother??

Gauthier's moves taken in a vacuum are good, but the way he is running the organization and the timing of everything sucks now. He needs to go.

Hve to admit though, the last sentence scares the hell out of me.

Just like with JM firing,it doesn't change anything if Gainey is still here. I want them both gone more than anything,and have felt that way for a couple of years.Gainey stocked the management with retread Ottawa losers (Timmons,JM,PG and RC) and now we're the losers

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Just like with JM firing,it doesn't change anything if Gainey is still here. I want them both gone more than anything,and have felt that way for a couple of years.Gainey stocked the management with retread Ottawa losers (Timmons,JM,PG and RC) and now we're the losers

I agree. Gainey was given the keys to the city when he got here. It wasn't till half way through his tenure that the boobirds come out. The goat was selected by Gainey as his replacement, so the negativety started when the Goat got here. All in all, i think he has done a better job than Gainey.

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Just like with JM firing,it doesn't change anything if Gainey is still here. I want them both gone more than anything,and have felt that way for a couple of years.Gainey stocked the management with retread Ottawa losers (Timmons,JM,PG and RC) and now we're the losers

JM's firing changed a lot.... we still had a chance at the playoffs on the dy JM was fired... now we've been sewered... 3-8-0 since then.

The fact he was fired on a game day, the last home game before the long christmas trip with Cunneyworth having zero practice time with the team.... huge mistake. How do you put a new coach in place, with no opportunity in the schedule to put his stamp on the team.

Then you had Molson come out the next day and issue that press release, they cut the legs off the coach, made him a lame duck his second day on the job. The players knew then, he had no chance of being hired long term and as such any attempt to install discipline in the players would fall on deaf ears.

The way this was handled was a gigantic error on management's part... probably their biggest all season

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I think the Habs under Gainey were something approaching an exemplary organization in terms of how they ran their operation, if not always in terms of on-ice results. That's how we became a desirable UFA location and generally regarded as a strong franchise (the 'crown jewels,' to quote Ferraro a while back). Habs29 is absolutely right that we now look like a team in disarray at the highest level. It's not so much, to my mind, that the specific decisions have been so bad - it's not like Houle in that sense - but that the manner in which they've been made has seemed totally classless, scrambly, and mickey mouse.

I notice that a lot of media types - including former players - don't seem to like Gauthier much on a personal level. Which'd be OK if he were brilliant, but brilliant he hasn't been. PG may be one of these 'bright' types whose mind impresses but who simply does not know how to manage people (akin to Stéphane Dion, a politician with lots of good ideas but who couldn't 'lead' a party to save his hide). Or else, Molson is the source of the problem and we have a new Harold Ballard at the top. This is even worse, because unlike Gauthier, ownership cannot be replaced.

We'll know more by the end of the summer, I think. This whole season could be an aberration, with the weird behaviour caused by a team that unexpectedly hit the skids and drove the GM to extremes; a little good luck, some wins, and things stabilize. Or, the Goat could be fired and we start afresh. Or, Molson is the cause; and we are in for a long, long decade or two ahead: the new Toronto Maple Leafs. Interesting times.

I with you and Commadant on this. This is a real problem to the extent that several analysts suggested an anglophone coach would be tolerated if the GM ever talked to anyone. Since he won't, the coach is the only representative of the team for the french media.

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We're still talking about Martin?

The post is more a criticism of the whole way the team handicapped Cunneyworth and didn't give him a real chance wit the team on the day he took over than it is about Martin.

Martin was fired, fine... but the timing of the actual firing, and the press release from Molson the next day, gave Cunneyworth zero chance from day 1.

Put him into a long road trip with games every other day.... then christmas break... then more road games, before he could even come back to montreal and have two days of practice.

The day to fire him was either after the November 26th game vs Pittsburgh (before the west coast trip and when there were 4 days off between games) or December 31st after the Florida game (again the break).

Lets also remember that Martin went got 9 pts in his last 7 games behind the bench, he was fired for overall performance, not his most rcent games.

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The post is more a criticism of the whole way the team handicapped Cunneyworth and didn't give him a real chance wit the team on the day he took over than it is about Martin.

Martin was fired, fine... but the timing of the actual firing, and the press release from Molson the next day, gave Cunneyworth zero chance from day 1.

Put him into a long road trip with games every other day.... then christmas break... then more road games, before he could even come back to montreal and have two days of practice.

Very true. Scotty Bowman said it gave the players a crutch. And give any player one, and he'll use it.
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I wouldn't want to move Subban either. IMO, we only have two real untouchables on this team - price and Subban. But lets say Philly came calling and were offering up two of JVR, Couturier, or Schenn and Simmonds. Do you still say no??? what if in addition to Subban all they asked for was Gill, to shore up their defence for a cup run??? A team like Philly is loaded. They have an over abundence of a mix of young up and coming players (JVR, Coutuerier, Simmonds, Voracheck, Schenn), as well as established stars (Briere, Giroux, Hartnell, Jagr) up front and good supporting forwards. However, because of Pronger's injury, they do have questions marks defense. That may make Subban so attractive they may be willing to overpay - and it may not really be an overpayment if Subban does become a Norris winner. What if they came calling and wanted to go for it all THIS YEAR and were willing to over pay, do you still say no to moving Subban???

While none of this likely, the point is no one is untouchable. I'd like a GM who will at least EXPLORE, ALL possibilities. We are at a point of total dissaray as an organzation. We have a lot of good pieces (Price, Pleks, Subban, MaxPac, Cole, AK46, Markov, Gorges, Yemelin), but organizationally, culturally, chemsitry wise we are a mess. Some sort of change is needed. We really need better leadership at the management level. A team that is willing to shake things up proactively rather then always being reacting. When LA got Gretzky, they went and explored an opperuntity no one else would have thought was possible.

Our leadership from ownership to GM is to concerned about appeasing everyone the fans, politicians, fans, rather then trying to do explore every option to make this franchise better. We used to be the model hockey franchise for the WORLD, not just the NHL. Our players were highly regarded all over the world. Tikhanov called Gainey the perfect and best hockey player. Dryden was a rock in net. We had the big three PLUS up and coming Lanway and Englom on defense. On top of that we had the most creative and explosive player in the game in Lafleur. Supporting him were Shutt, Lemaire, Cournvayer. Our depth guys were Houle, Tremblay, Risebrough. On top of that we had other offensive guys like Napier, Acton, Larouche.

That was then, this is now. For the past 10 years we have been struggling to get back to respectibility and now we are a laughing stock of the league. I don't want to just get back to respectibility. I want us to be the model franchise again. For that to happen, we need to explore all options. To do that we need a change in leadership. We need innovative guys a the helm of this ship. Gainey was a rock, but he was a reactive guy and often reacted to late and towards the end made a lot of bad decisions and lived in the "old" hockey mindset. He had a rigid philosphy (not negotiating during the season), despite the fact that he was foregoing some of the leverage offered by the CBA, by negoitating during the year. He made a lot of snappy decisions - moving Ribeiro, Grabs, supporting the crappy way that JM was dealing with SK74, moving Lats. PG has been more of the same. We need somone who is willing to do things that break with convention. I was highly critical of Tallon of the signings he did with Chicago. But he has really broke with convention on how he has rebuilt the Panthers. The only real misstep was the Horten trade.

If someone comes with a blow away offer for subban, I would be surprised. Why would they trade a superstar for him? If we trade Subban, it will be for garbage. Either a fading star or some prospects, both of which are a mistake. When you have a great young player, you do not trade him. Very few teams have ever traded a young player with the performance of PK. While people are concerned with his play this year, it is really about bad perspective. He has about one year in the league now and it pulling the most ice time on the team. He is playing in all situations. He has 17 points and is only minus 3 on a brutal team. Its his sophmore year.

Anyone you trades PK right now is an idiot. Anyone offering what appears to be an over the top offer either knows something you don't, or thinks you are an idiot. :)

Pleks is a bit different. He has enough track record that you know what he is and can fairly judge the return. Still, no one is going to offer us fair value for him.

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Recent rumour: Gill for Penner. Would you do it?

I would. Then I'd try to re-sign Penner for 1.5M and then have another NHL-quality big body playing on the 3rd/4th lines. Suddenly the Habs forwards aren't smurfs any more.

Incidentally, Gallagher being hurt last night may have affected possible deals. Seems there's more than a passing interest in him.

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Recent rumour: Gill for Penner. Would you do it?

I would. Then I'd try to re-sign Penner for 1.5M and then have another NHL-quality big body playing on the 3rd/4th lines. Suddenly the Habs forwards aren't smurfs any more.

Incidentally, Gallagher being hurt last night may have affected possible deals. Seems there's more than a passing interest in him.

Penner threw his back out eating pancakes.

He may have trouble getting a contract this summer.

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I'd much rather take the picks and/or prospects that Gill will get me than Penner.

I don't see the point.

I don't like Penner personally, but even assuming he's a guy you want, sign him in july.

I think Gill can get you a 2nd or 3rd,based on his playoff performances the last couple years. Big no to Penner,as we have Bourque and AK,two decent size guys with very questionable work ethic

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I think Gill can get you a 2nd or 3rd,based on his playoff performances the last couple years. Big no to Penner,as we have Bourque and AK,two decent size guys with very questionable work ethic

I think he gets you a 1st if you do it right and sell him to San Jose or Chicago 2 top teams with grabage PK's

The deadline for a Kostitsyn extension is getting closer.

He will be on his way out soon if no contract signed.

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Okay about about a 1st rounder and a roster player for Craig Rivet?

Rivet was a much better all around player than Gill is.

There's a certain surreality to fans' wish list here. It's like the Cammalleri trade. We all feel Gauthier should have gotten more. Now that may be true, but it also may NOT be true. I also find it funny that posters who relentlessly rag on certain players as glaring pieces of crap nevertheless expect Gauthier to trade them for quality value.

It's hard to get an honest, objective reading on just how much the players on your team are worth on the open market. Frankly, I think most of our guys could be moved for 2nd or 3rd round picks. More than that seems optimistic.

-Gill is not worth a 1st-round pick under any circumstances. I can see him commanding a 2nd-round pick from a higher-end team looking to complete its roster for the playoffs, but even that's a stretch. 2nd round pick'd be great return.

-AK46 *might* command a 1st-round pick if he gets super-hot leading up to the deadline, but again, I don't see it. Think 2nd-rounder.

-Weber: the kid has potential but zero record of achievement. Maybe a 2nd rounder if you're lucky. More likely a 4th rounder, or a player swap (team that wants a young PP specialist trades a young potential FW, something like that).

-Moen: 2nd rounder. In some ways, I think he will be out hottest commodity at the deadline. Cup winner, has produced in the playoffs before, adds grit and leadership, won't alter your 'core' or disrupt chemistry - a perfect deadline pickup.

-Campoli: will be desirable, but his value's low. 4th-5th rounder.

This is why I was counting on Gauthier to PACKAGE Cammalleri with some of these guys. Because I can't see any of them, taken in isolation, yielding a return that is sufficient to make a real impact on the future of this team.

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