Jump to content

Permanent Rumour Thread


Fanpuck33
 Share

Recommended Posts

2 hours ago, Habber31 said:

Honestly, why do we have Price and Weber on this team, if this is the route Bergevin insists on taking. It's a contradiction 

 

This gm is such a bum. He sees this team as non-playoff team, and that's perfectly fine, apparently. I cannot believe this guy still has a job. 

 

I don't think Bergevin is saying that this is a non playoff team, he is simply saying that he sees the team as fighting for a playoff spot and that he is not willing to mortgage the future to get a little better, would rather use the cap space instead. I agree with his thoughts. Obviously he must feel that he has Molson's support on this.

  • Upvote 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

6 minutes ago, Habs Fan in Edmonton said:

 

I don't think Bergevin is saying that this is a non playoff team, he is simply saying that he sees the team as fighting for a playoff spot and that he is not willing to mortgage the future to get a little better, would rather use the cap space instead. I agree with his thoughts. Obviously he must feel that he has Molson's support on this.

To be honest he's been saying this for the last 5 years. nothing has changed except the way they have been drafting the last 2 years. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Habs Fan in Edmonton said:

 

I don't think Bergevin is saying that this is a non playoff team, he is simply saying that he sees the team as fighting for a playoff spot and that he is not willing to mortgage the future to get a little better, would rather use the cap space instead. I agree with his thoughts. Obviously he must feel that he has Molson's support on this.

 

Thats exactly what he's saying.... but some people just want to spin the narrative. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

9 hours ago, Commandant said:

 

Thats exactly what he's saying.... but some people just want to spin the narrative. 

I would be looking at Kovalev. He still wants to play and he can. Sign him Bergie sign him ghg

Link to comment
Share on other sites

 

Personally, I agree with the approach the team is taking....

-turn over the coaching in Laval to help with development

-keep the players you want to build a new team around  and move the players who have no place.

-draft and develop as many players as you can

-give the kids an opportunity to play

-look for oppurtunity in the UFA market (Chiarot/Aho☑️ /Duschene ✖️/Gardiner

-Leverage your well managed cap $$ to make your team better by acquiring players like Armia and picks for money.

-Dont trade a A prospects like Suzuki, KK, Mete, Romanov or Caufield (as an example) for said help in 2019/2020

 

With that said, his announcement that Romanov is most likely coming to town next year is purely cover for the lack of activity and calls to trade for a LD. Also, saying that today teams build there team in June and hope for the best is also a farce. Simply saying we as an organization arent in the position to move assets to acquire help with the chance we might make the playoffs would have been suffice.

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I think the ”correct approach” is to try to improve one’s team every single season. Of course, if the  team is in dead last around the trade deadline, a team can look to the future and trade away rental players in order to accumulate future assets.
 

Allowing kids to develop and hoping for a window in 2-3 years assumes that 20 other teams aren’t doing the exact same thing, and that for one reason or another, our prospect pool will simply flourish at a higher level than every other team. 
 

The most recent Calder Trophy winners have belonged to teams like Vancouver, New York Islanders, Chicago, Colorado, Florida Panthers, Toronto, Buffalo, etc. Great rookies, poor teams. Alex Ovechkin won the Calder in 2006 and was not an integral part of Washington’s cup win until 2018.

 

When I was a kid, I perhaps foolishly believed that the Habs had a chance to make the playoffs and compete for a Stanley Cup in any given year. As a result, I grew into the habit of watching 82 games a year. I think even as an 11 year old in modern times, In recent years, I’d be able to understand that the Habs realistically have no chance of competing for a Stanley Cup. I’m not saying this is officially one of those years, although it really is unless things change, but two years ago I had 100% knowledge prior to the season that we would not be able to compete for a Stanley Cup. There is something wrong about that despite all the modern day tanking and asset management which are deemed to be the “correct approach”.
 

One thing is for certain and that’s that not all of our touted prospects will become gems. It is the duty of the organization to see perhaps which prospects are expendable in order to help improve our team during a season where we are a bubble team. “Mortgaging the future” is nothing more than a slogan and it’s not so written in stone that we can’t improve our team in a given year without doing so.
 

 

  • Upvote 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Yes, I get that you don't sell the farm for immediate help. But I wonder: when will fans start demanding that the team actually make the playoffs? Or even improve of the previous season's performance? Next year? Three years from now? 2037, maybe? 🙄 Bergevin seems to have discovered the magic key to keeping fans happy in the internet age, which is that it's more fun believing in hypotheticals than in believing that the actual team of actual human beings might be reasonably asked to accomplish something.

  • Upvote 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

 

3 minutes ago, xXx..CK..xXx said:

I think the ”correct approach” is to try to improve one’s team every single season. Of course, if the  team is in dead last around the trade deadline, a team can look to the future and trade away rental players in order to accumulate future assets.
 

Allowing kids to develop and hoping for a window in 2-3 years assumes that 20 other teams aren’t doing the exact same thing, and that for one reason or another, our prospect pool will simply flourish at a higher level than every other team. 
 

The most recent Calder Trophy winners have belonged to teams like Vancouver, New York Islanders, Chicago, Colorado, Florida Panthers, Toronto, Buffalo, etc. Great rookies, poor teams. Alex Ovechkin won the Calder in 2006 and was not an integral part of Washington’s cup win until 2018.

 

When I was a kid, I perhaps foolishly believed that the Habs had a chance to make the playoffs and compete for a Stanley Cup in any given year. As a result, I grew into the habit of watching 82 games a year. I think even as an 11 year old in modern times, In recent years, I’d be able to understand that the Habs realistically have no chance of competing for a Stanley Cup. I’m not saying this is officially one of those years, although it really is unless things change, but two years ago I had 100% knowledge prior to the season that we would not be able to compete for a Stanley Cup. 
 

One thing is for certain and that’s that not all of our touted prospects will become gems. It is the duty of the organization to see perhaps which prospects are expendable in order to help improve our team during a season where we are a bubble team. “Mortgaging the future” is nothing more than a slogan and it’s not so written in stone that we can’t improve our team in a given year without doing so.
 

 

 

Excellent post. And I agree. How about actually improving the damned team? It is a complete red herring to say that doing so requires "mortgaging the future." And the enthusiasm with which many fans chow down on this red herring is depressing.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

29 minutes ago, xXx..CK..xXx said:

When I was a kid, I perhaps foolishly believed that the Habs had a chance to make the playoffs and compete for a Stanley Cup in any given year. As a result, I grew into the habit of watching 82 games a year.

I am cancelling my Bell Fibe this month, no need for me to dedicate this much viewing time to this bubble team. Up to now, I have PVR'ed games and watched all of them.

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I still haven't seen a good answer. 

 

Who is this LHD that the Habs should have acquired and didnt?  Someone who has actually been traded or moved as a free agent. 

 

The only player he could have gone after and didn't was Jake Muzzin.  Is that the guy you are complaining about, that he didn't give up a 1st, Brook, and Ylonen for?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

My problem with what we are currently doing is that there are only so many roster spots available. Drafting and developing players of course is the most important part of building a team, but at some point we need to move some of these pieces for higher end talent. Personally I like pretty much every current Hab player individually and you can argue they slot in very well where they are in the lineup. Our team kind of reminds me on Minnesota for the last decade, a bunch of really good players and not many holes but also not really any great players. We have a lot of players signed for market value or below, and a bunch of cap space for no particular reason. I'd love to trade some high end picks, prospects or roster players to go out and grab a superstar if one is ever available. 

 

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Commandant said:

I still haven't seen a good answer. 

 

Who is this LHD that the Habs should have acquired and didnt?  Someone who has actually been traded or moved as a free agent. 

 

The only player he could have gone after and didn't was Jake Muzzin.  Is that the guy you are complaining about, that he didn't give up a 1st, Brook, and Ylonen for?

Your talking as if we are a LD away from the cup.  That is the one GLARING hole.  But this team is not close to being a contender.  A good management team would see that and have a strategy that is more I’d a hope that we may be a contender in 3 to 4 years - if KK, Suzuki Poehling, Caufield, Romanov, Brook Et el achieve their ceilings and Domi and Drouin can show consistency.
 

If we were  going to hold onto Price/Weber wed probably have been better off resigning maxpac (who seems to be having a great year) and adding players that would guarantee playoff success now while price and Weber are still elite.  Otherwise I’d rather have Molson do the same thing the rangers did and send the fans a letter that we are rebuilding - none is this retooling crap!!!  Being a perpetual bubble team - which we’ve been for years is like being almost pregnant.  Either say you don’t want a baby or friggin go for it!!!!!   When was the last time we had a player in the top 20 or even 30 in scoring????

 

lastly it’s MB’a friggin job to fill the holes.  If he has to make a team trade a top LD by offering them something substantial- or something thy can’t rwfuse, do it.  Be bold, Trade price or gallaghar if the return can make your team

better overall.  Weber’s value probably is never going to be higher - move him.  Not saying to trade everyone, but give up one of your top players for a truly elite young dman or centre that can carry a team.  You keep asking the same stupid question in almost every post (and complain about others when they have repetitive posts), but when Thornton was trades, how many GM’s knew he was available?? Same with seguin.  Hell even when gainey trades rivet, Burke said he wishes he knew he was available.  A team may not be shopping a top LD, but you can target a team that has one that we want and offer them someone they may want more (ie Price).

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 hours ago, hab29RETIRED said:

Blah, Blah, Blah, Bergevin bad.  I can't believe he didn't trade for Tyler Seguin when we needed a centre (ignoring the fact that Boston wouldn't trade him to us)... blah blah blah fill the holes .... blah, blah, blah... the sky is falling... Bergevin is an idiot... Blah... blah...

 

Fixed that for you. 

 

I'll start taking you seriously when you show that you can both give credit to Bergevin and criticize him.  When you show some balance instead of bias... until then, I just can't take anything you say seriously. 

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 hours ago, Commandant said:

 

Fixed that for you. 

 

I'll start taking you seriously when you show that you can both give credit to Bergevin and criticize him.  When you show some balance instead of bias... until then, I just can't take anything you say seriously. 

 

 

So what I hear from you is Blah blah blah the team is fine MB is a genius now since the Drouin trade - because like it was such a great move giving up our best d prospect.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, DON said:

Image result for eeyore images funny

2016-2017 
Max Pacioretty was 26th in league scoring. Right between 25th Henrik Zetterberg and 27th John Tavares. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

20 minutes ago, xXx..CK..xXx said:

2016-2017 
Max Pacioretty was 26th in league scoring. Right between 25th Henrik Zetterberg and 27th John Tavares. 

But Kovalev was 11th, which is best since Mats Naslund in 1985-86 with 110pts and in the top ten.

 

How have the Habs avoided drafting a franchise changing player skater since the early 70s?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Vanek was also 24th in the league in 2013-2014 but played only a few games with the Habs. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, hab29RETIRED said:

So what I hear from you is Blah blah blah the team is fine MB is a genius now since the Drouin trade - because like it was such a great move giving up our best d prospect.

 

First off, MB isn't a genius, I don't think anyone here would remotely consider making such a foolish claim. Secondly, The fact you are harping on that trade, is pretty mind boggling, that one hasn't even turned out badly for us at all. 

 

Drouin has looked like a real stud who matured a great deal this season before his injury, and Sergachev would barely be higher than Mete in our current depth chart. It's his 3rd season in Tampa and still he is averaging 18 - 19 min per game on a talented team like Tampa. Stop acting like Sergachev would be the second coming of Markov at this point had we kept him, because the truth is, he isn't. He is a mobile, talented, but high risk Dman, and he still doesn't have the trust of his coach to play big minutes despite your claims that he was the chosen one on the Left side, it would be no different over here. He has a long way to go to round out his game to be a true top pair guy, and who knows if he will ever be reliable enough without the puck to be trusted against other team's top players and soak up a lot of minutes. Cart way before the horse on that one, but when all you do is push the same old agenda that everything we do is stupid, nothing is good, you're bound to do that.

 

If there is one area where Bergevin has literally not made any big blunders yet, it is via trade, look up his history, there is no huge losses there that have had a big negative impact on this team, not one. He has hit several home runs though, but I'm sure you would rather not praise a single aspect of his management. Now if you wanted to attack other areas of his tenure like his vision or plan, his offseason strategy, some free agent signings or negotiation failures, that would be different, because he has had blunders in some of those departments, no doubt. But of course I am talking about a fair analysis, that makes sense, and isn't hell bent on excessive amounts of haterade, you wouldn't understand that...

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, hab29RETIRED said:

So what I hear from you is Blah blah blah the team is fine MB is a genius now since the Drouin trade - because like it was such a great move giving up our best d prospect.

 

Everyone here who has read my stuff knows that im willing to criticize when appropriate.  And that i strongly critiqued bergevin on a number of moves... some (subban, domi) i later admitted i was wrong to criticize.

 

I also thought alzner was a slight overpay but thought hed still be a decent player.  Again i was wrong and Im willing to say that was a huge mistake for Bergevin.

 

Im willing to take a nuanced look at the good and the bad.

 

You on the other hand have never said anything positive and thats why i cant take you seriously.  The bias just shines through too much.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I don’t think anyone wants us to mortgage the future for help now and that is not what we are asking for. We are asking MB to use a piece of our prospect depth to fill a very large roster hole.

 

We have that depth as has been pointed out by many posters – this is the key argument to wait another 2-3 years.

 

I believe and others believe that we are a strong team and that we can move beyond a bubble team and into a playoff team if we can address that hole on LD. We have had this hole for a while now but I would never have suggested using our assets to get that LD during the year or our great collapse – we had many holes. We are a solid team that is hamstrung by the defense. The recent Ottawa game is a perfect example of just how weak we are on LD. Whenever possible, Ottawa would dump the puck in the left corner and then Tkachuk would fly in and smash the LD and chaos would ensue.

 

There are prospects that I don’t want to trade and wouldn’t trade but we have prospects that would be of great interest around the league and as much as we would hate to see them traded, we have the depth to live without them.

 

I don’t agree with Commandant’s argument that there aren’t defensemen available. Savvy GMs have been making these kind of trades out of left field for decades. It is up to MB to create this trade as opposed to looking at the classifieds section for who is available.

 

If we are simply going to wait until more prospects develop then we will be where we are in perpetuity. Some players will mature and get better while others will regress and life on the bubble will continue.

 

We can be a playoff team this year

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Here is my current back of the envelope list of teams and potential targets for the CH based on probability of making the playoff, cap space and Seattle2021 expansion draft:

PlayoffProb Cap$< LTIR PROJECTED CAP SPACE CURRENT CAP SPACE

Potential Top LD 

79.50% ARZ 3 LTIR $0 $748,376 LTIR --- NO MATCH ---
97.60% BOS 4 LTIR $0 $1,794,167 LTIR --- NO MATCH ---
51.20% BUF 3 LTIR $0 $2,864,583 LTIR --- NO MATCH ---
38.90% TOR#-- 4 LTIR $0 $1,878,684 LTIR
22yr, Travis Dermott
(Drafted #34'15)
80.10% DAL 2 $815 $4,750,000 LTIR --- NO MATCH ---
57.80% CAL 3 LTIR $19,117 $3,215,833 LTIR
22yr, Oliver Kylington
(drafted #60'15)
96.60% STL 4 LTIR $20,326 $4,945,000 LTIR --- NO MATCH ---
46.30% VAN#-- 4 LTIR $30,474 $1,124,166 LTIR

21yr, Olli Juolevi

(drafted #5'16)

50.60% PHI 5 LTIR $57,336 $473,611 LTIR

24yr, Robert Hagg

(drafted #41'13)

61.80% VGK 0 $103,486 $174,985 LITR

20yr, Nicolas Hague

(drafted #34'17)

13.70% CHI 4 LTIR $240,030 $2,193,333 LTIR

25yr, Olli Maatta

(drafted #22'12)

55.10% FLA 0 $517,494 $875,035

20yr, Max Gildon

(drafted #66'17)

61.40% EDM 3 LTIR $680,329 $1,150,374

22yr, Caled Jones

(drafted #117'15)

99.60% WSH 0 $748,491 $1,265,630
22yr, Lucas Johansen
(drafted #26'16)
10.30% SJS#--- 2 $824,449 $1,394,068
21yr (undersized) Mario Ferraro
(drafted #49'17)
45.90% MIN 5 LTIR $999,323 $1,689,764

26yr, Jonas Brodin

(drafted #10'11)

84.10% PIT 4 LTIR $1,057,223 $1,787,668
19yr, Pierre-Olivier Joseph
(drafted #23'17)
Edited by alfredoh2009
added clarification on numbers in last column
Link to comment
Share on other sites

58 minutes ago, Prime Minister Koivu said:

I don’t agree with Commandant’s argument that there aren’t defensemen available. Savvy GMs have been making these kind of trades out of left field for decades. It is up to MB to create this trade as opposed to looking at the classifieds section for who is available.

 

 

Here is the issue... Does this mean that there are no savvy GMs anywhere in the NHL, cause its not just Bergevin who is failing to get a top 4 LD, its that no GM is making this move, and there are probably 15-20 teams in the league who could use a better LD in their top 4. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

 Share

×
×
  • Create New...