Permanent Rumour Thread

[xXx..CK..xXx]

If we can make the playoffs this year, we should be buying at the deadline. Not selling, or enjoying the status quo. Carolina and Columbus made the playoffs over us last year in large part to the reality that both teams added at the deadline. Neidereitter went on a tear after Carolina acquired him and Columbus went all in. 

If you can make the playoffs, you look for teams that are selling and make a trade to better your team. It’s absolutely astonishing to think that people consistently talk about how our team will be in three years. Other teams will improve within that timeframe as well and all I keep hearing is that we have the top 5 or 6 prospect pool in the game. 
 

Let’s say MONTREAL does have a top 5 prospect pool.

 

That already leaves 4 teams ahead of us in that department. 
 

Then we have to add the 10-15 teams who just have better veteran superstars on their team than a combination of Price, Weber and Gallagher.

 

That puts us in the same boat as we are in 3 years. 

 

I believe Caufield is the real deal but we have to go after impact players who are already impactful otherwise I agree that a state of perpetuity will arise. Trading one or some of Lehkonen, Hudon, Poehling, Suzuki, Mete, Cousins, Weal, draft picks, does not gut our team. 

[Prime Minister Koivu]

9 minutes ago, Commandant said:

 

You are suggesting good lhd are available at a price that doesnt gut our team.

 

And then you suggest other teams who need lhd are trading for these unknown players, who they need, cause they dont have the assets to get them?

 

What... how can both be possible... that the d are available at a cheap price that doesnt gut our system... but at a price that other teams dont have the assets for.

 

Sorry not buying it.

 

I think nhl teams are hoarding top 4 defencemen due to the fact the supply is a lot smaller than the demand with 31 teams now in the league.

 

I'm not suggesting that other teams are trading for needed LD. I'm saying that even though they have those needs they lack the prospects to get it done without killing themselves.

 

I know that our needed LD will cost and it will hurt but we do not need to gut the team to do it. Perhaps my interpretation of gutting the team is off? To me gutting the team would be giving up 2 or 3 prime prospects and that I would not do. I'm thinking one strong prospect plus picks and cap things. maybe that is naive

 

14 minutes ago, Commandant said:

 

Who said we are waiting three years to be a playoff team?  We were in the hunt last year to the final weekend and are currently in a playoff spot.

 

This is a bubble team which means depending on results we may or may not get in.

 

I agree with you but my main argument is that with the LD we will move beyond a bubble team.

 

Do you think that we are further away than that?

 

 

[Commandant]

A ld alone moves us to playoff team but still not a cup contender til suzuki and kk become a 1-2 punch up the middle.

 

Thats why im saying patience.  The centres to win are therr but not for a long playoff run at 19 and 20.

 

I still think its speculation when 

 

Pittsburgh needs d especially on the left and has never been afraid to mortgage the future to win in midseason deals.

 

The oilers need d and have the type of centres to be in win now mode.

 

Washington could use a lhd and is in win now mode.

 

Vegas has not been afraid to fill their needs to compete in recent years and needs d.

 

Winnipeg is desperate for D of any kind and have made big trades for rentals in both of the last two years.

 

All of these teams are closer to a cup than us and their hole is just as big.  They have GMs who are not afraid to be all in. If none of them are grabbing those LHD out there.  What makes you think we can get one for just one top prospect?

[Habsfan89]

30 minutes ago, Commandant said:

A ld alone moves us to playoff team but still not a cup contender til suzuki and kk become a 1-2 punch up the middle.

 

Thats why im saying patience.  The centres to win are therr but not for a long playoff run at 19 and 20.

 

I still think its speculation when 

 

Pittsburgh needs d especially on the left and has never been afraid to mortgage the future to win in midseason deals.

 

The oilers need d and have the type of centres to be in win now mode.

 

Washington could use a lhd and is in win now mode.

 

Vegas has not been afraid to fill their needs to compete in recent years and needs d.

 

Winnipeg is desperate for D of any kind and have made big trades for rentals in both of the last two years.

 

All of these teams are closer to a cup than us and their hole is just as big.  They have GMs who are not afraid to be all in. If none of them are grabbing those LHD out there.  What makes you think we can get one for just one top prospect?

I just don't get why we're holding on to Price and Weber And Petry.If you want to play the kids and not give up top prospects to win now that's fine.  But Price and Weber want to win now not 3 or 4 years down the road.  In 2 years time if this team is still a bubble team i see Price and Weber asking for trades so they can go win a cup before  its to late for them.
  We have Primeau give him the keys to the net and let Primeau, Suzuki, Poehling, Kotkaniemi develop into the new core together.

 

If we eat 4mil off Price's contract team's will want him At 6mil a year, more then at 10mil.
And if we eat 2mil off Weber's contract, at 5mil a year team's would want him also.

 

Then we play the kids and let them develop together.

 

Trading Weber , Price  and Petry would fill holes in areas that we need filled, and help with the rebuild.  
 Our core group would then be Domi, Danault, Drouin , Gallagher, Armia, Our young guys would be Kotkaniemi, Suzuki, Poehling, Mete, Primeau, Fleury, Romanov, Cousins.

 

We let the young guys play and develop. Give them the top mins and lets see what they can do.

[illWill]

4 minutes ago, Habsfan89 said:

 

 

If we eat 4mil off Price's contract team's will want him At 6mil a year, more then at 10mil.
And if we eat 2mil off Weber's contract, at 5mil a year team's would want him also.

 

Then we play the kids and let them develop together.

 

 

Please don't ever become GM of the Canadiens

[Commandant]

 

This has already been explained... teams with no players over the age of 30 often fail in developing their young players.  See the Oilers and the Leafs from early in this decade.  They had no vet leadership and the Eberle, Hall, Nugent-Hopkins, Yakupov core failed to develop into a team.  The Leafs with all those high picks that was supposed to be built around a core of Schenn, Kadri, Rielly, Reimer, Tlusty, also failed miserably.  Its no coincidence that both teams had to find a mix of veterans and youth before their youth could start to grow. 

But sure, lets trade everyone over the age of 26 and assume that our youth can grow in that environment. 

Lets throw 20 year old Primeau to the lions as a starting goalie in Montreal.  Doing the same with Price nearly ruined him, and we are lucky he came back strong after the 2010 season.  So wlets repeat that mistake again, with a guy who is good... but he isn't Price, 5th overall, generational goalie good. 

 

You aren't going to develop young players in a losing environment.... playing big games as we are on the bubble of he playoffs down the stretch is going to do more for their development than trading Price and Weber and Petry and being the Red Wings, playing meaningless games til the end of the season. That would create a culture of losing and thats hard to break. 

This isn't a video game... you are dealing with real people.  You have to look at how the human interaction plays a part of building a team, not just saying, lets throw all this youth to the wolves and see what happens.

[Habsfan89]

2 hours ago, illWill said:

 

Please don't ever become GM of the Canadiens

How is saving more cap space and getting a higher return being a bad gym 🤔

[Habs Fan in Edmonton]

2 hours ago, Commandant said:

 

This has already been explained... teams with no players over the age of 30 often fail in developing their young players.  See the Oilers and the Leafs from early in this decade.  They had no vet leadership and the Eberle, Hall, Nugent-Hopkins, Yakupov core failed to develop into a team.  The Leafs with all those high picks that was supposed to be built around a core of Schenn, Kadri, Rielly, Reimer, Tlusty, also failed miserably.  Its no coincidence that both teams had to find a mix of veterans and youth before their youth could start to grow. 

But sure, lets trade everyone over the age of 26 and assume that our youth can grow in that environment. 

Lets throw 20 year old Primeau to the lions as a starting goalie in Montreal.  Doing the same with Price nearly ruined him, and we are lucky he came back strong after the 2010 season.  So wlets repeat that mistake again, with a guy who is good... but he isn't Price, 5th overall, generational goalie good. 

 

You aren't going to develop young players in a losing environment.... playing big games as we are on the bubble of he playoffs down the stretch is going to do more for their development than trading Price and Weber and Petry and being the Red Wings, playing meaningless games til the end of the season. That would create a culture of losing and thats hard to break. 

This isn't a video game... you are dealing with real people.  You have to look at how the human interaction plays a part of building a team, not just saying, lets throw all this youth to the wolves and see what happens.

 

No question you need veteran leadership that is respected by the young guys.  That is one thing the Habs do have with Weber, Gallagher, Price etc. and these guys are critical in helping the young guys develop and mature. As you pointed out correctly the Oilers had none of that so the leadership void was filled by the young guys (ie Hall, Eberle etc.) and it was a disaster.  

[Habsfan89]

9 minutes ago, Habs Fan in Edmonton said:

 

No question you need veteran leadership that is respected by the young guys.  That is one thing the Habs do have with Weber, Gallagher, Price etc. and these guys are critical in helping the young guys develop and mature. As you pointed out correctly the Oilers had none of that so the leadership void was filled by the young guys (ie Hall, Eberle etc.) and it was a disaster.  

It was more of a disaster because they never filled their team needs. They kept on picking forwards and left a hole in net and on D that they never filled.

[Habsfan89]

2 hours ago, illWill said:

 

Please don't ever become GM of the Canadiens

Price =10mil

Weber=7mil

  Total = 17mil

10-4= 6mil

7-2=5mil

total= 11mil

We take on 6mil a year , but we gain 11mil a year in cap space.  Plus we'll be getting 1st round picks and top prospects/ young NHL ready prospects.

 

So how is that being a bad gm?🤔

 

Oh I forgot I guess you like losing players for  nothing.

[Habs Fan in Edmonton]

16 minutes ago, Habsfan89 said:

It was more of a disaster because they never filled their team needs. They kept on picking forwards and left a hole in net and on D that they never filled.

 

Lack of leadership was a massive problem and the major problem. Sure they had holes, brought guys in too quickly before they were ready. They had lots of issues but lack of leadership was the most glaring. Ken Holland is starting to fix things, they hired the right guy to be GM finally. Their leader is a young guy (McDavid) but he is mature beyond his years and works his ass off every game so he is respected by his teammates. They are finally headed in the right direction. 

[hab29RETIRED]

37 minutes ago, Habs Fan in Edmonton said:

 

No question you need veteran leadership that is respected by the young guys.  That is one thing the Habs do have with Weber, Gallagher, Price etc. and these guys are critical in helping the young guys develop and mature. As you pointed out correctly the Oilers had none of that so the leadership void was filled by the young guys (ie Hall, Eberle etc.) and it was a disaster.  

Oilers had bigger issues than lack of leadership.  Who’s the leader now?  One of their youngest players.  Their biggest issue was a horrible and toxic management team and a revolving door of coaches.  Bigger mistake IMO than than the Hall trade and one that really set them back is when they fired Ralph Krueger to bring in Eakin - who seemed to be more preoccupied with the menu in the press room than coaching and developing his damn players.  It was the rotten chummy  old boy’s club that created the toxic situation in Edmonton.  They just had a horrible management team and than to top it off they brought in Chiarelli. The team actually got worse when they did bring in “leaders” like Souray, Russell and Lucic over the years.  Management was the biggest issue -  kind of like MB did with hanging on to his chums Lefebve, DD, Therrien was when all should have been fired long before they were.

 

 

[Commandant]

Washed up players in Souray, Russell and Lucic aren't leaders.  They are shitty washed up players. 

 

Youngsters aren't going to respond to a player just cause they are old. 

 

They have to be old and still good....  sure you could trade Price and Weber and then call up Karl Alzner and bring back Antti Niemi.  Those guys aren't going to be leaders just cause they are old.  They don't play well enough to have the kids respect. 

 

Weber and Price are leaders because they are veterans, and because they are still good players.  That is what gives them credibility. 

 

Again, we have to take human psychology and emotion into account, you can't just treat players like robots. 

[Habs Fan in Edmonton]

22 minutes ago, hab29RETIRED said:

Oilers had bigger issues than lack of leadership.  Who’s the leader now?  One of their youngest players.  Their biggest issue was a horrible and toxic management team and a revolving door of coaches.  Bigger mistake IMO than than the Hall trade and one that really set them back is when they fired Ralph Krueger to bring in Eakin - who seemed to be more preoccupied with the menu in the press room than coaching and developing his damn players.  It was the rotten chummy  old boy’s club that created the toxic situation in Edmonton.  They just had a horrible management team and than to top it off they brought in Chiarelli. The team actually got worse when they did bring in “leaders” like Souray, Russell and Lucic over the years.  Management was the biggest issue -  kind of like MB did with hanging on to his chums Lefebve, DD, Therrien was when all should have been fired long before they were.

 

 

 

No question management was terrible, when I speak about leadership I also throw management into the mix. I agree about Ralph Krueger, a class act. A young player can be a leader if they have maturity and the right work ethic. Connor McDavid has really grown into the role, he is an exceptionally mature young man. How old was Johnathan Toews when he was leading the Black Hawks to all those cups?

[DON]

5 hours ago, xXx..CK..xXx said:

. Trading one or some of Lehkonen, Hudon, Poehling, Suzuki, Mete, Cousins, Weal, draft picks, does not gut our team. 

Just not Suzuki...please!

[DON]

5 hours ago, Habsfan89 said:

I just don't get why we're holding on to Price and Weber And Petry.If you want to play the kids and not give up top prospects to win now that's fine.  But Price and Weber want to win now not 3 or 4 years down the road.  In 2 years time if this team is still a bubble team i see Price and Weber asking for trades so they can go win a cup before  its to late for them.
  We have Primeau give him the keys to the net and let Primeau, Suzuki, Poehling, Kotkaniemi develop into the new core together.

 

If we eat 4mil off Price's contract team's will want him At 6mil a year, more then at 10mil.
And if we eat 2mil off Weber's contract, at 5mil a year team's would want him also.

 

Then we play the kids and let them develop together.

 

Trading Weber , Price  and Petry would fill holes in areas that we need filled, and help with the rebuild.  
 Our core group would then be Domi, Danault, Drouin , Gallagher, Armia, Our young guys would be Kotkaniemi, Suzuki, Poehling, Mete, Primeau, Fleury, Romanov, Cousins.

 

We let the young guys play and develop. Give them the top mins and lets see what they can do.

Weber is just as valuable off the ice and in the lockerroom, even for the kids, or especially for them, same as Price or Gallagher.

I also doubt Tatar, Gallagher, Domi, Armia, Danault will have icetime cut for rookies to play, same on defense, cant play Leskinen, Fleury, Mete 24minutes/game and sit Weber, Chiarot, Petry.

 

Is no reason cant possibly win in 2021 (stop groaning Habs29), with a player or two to develop (14, 15, 25) and add one or two (i am looking at you Caufield and Hampus Lindholm).

But, in another middling season, you have to consider any offers I suppose.

[Habsfan89]

In my eyes I Would rather trade Price and Weber , because I want to see them  win a cup they deserve it. But unfortunately it's not going to happen here in Montreal. 

[DON]

1 minute ago, Habsfan89 said:

But unfortunately it's not going to happen here in Montreal. 

Why not?

[Commandant]

6 hours ago, xXx..CK..xXx said:

Trading one or some of Lehkonen, Hudon, Poehling, Suzuki, Mete, Cousins, Weal, draft picks, does not gut our team. 

 

Suzuki should be untouchable

 

The rest of those players do not get you a first pair LHD. 

[illWill]

2 hours ago, Habsfan89 said:

Price =10mil

Weber=7mil

  Total = 17mil

10-4= 6mil

7-2=5mil

total= 11mil

We take on 6mil a year , but we gain 11mil a year in cap space.  Plus we'll be getting 1st round picks and top prospects/ young NHL ready prospects.

 

So how is that being a bad gm?🤔

 

Oh I forgot I guess you like losing players for  nothing.

 

 

[Prime Minister Koivu]

16 hours ago, Commandant said:

A ld alone moves us to playoff team but still not a cup contender til suzuki and kk become a 1-2 punch up the middle.

 

Thats why im saying patience.  The centres to win are therr but not for a long playoff run at 19 and 20.

 

I still think its speculation when 

 

Pittsburgh needs d especially on the left and has never been afraid to mortgage the future to win in midseason deals.

 

The oilers need d and have the type of centres to be in win now mode.

 

Washington could use a lhd and is in win now mode.

 

Vegas has not been afraid to fill their needs to compete in recent years and needs d.

 

Winnipeg is desperate for D of any kind and have made big trades for rentals in both of the last two years.

 

All of these teams are closer to a cup than us and their hole is just as big.  They have GMs who are not afraid to be all in. If none of them are grabbing those LHD out there.  What makes you think we can get one for just one top prospect?

 

This is a great post and it really breaks down your argument for patience.

 

If the reality is that a LD would cost us 2-3 prime prospects then we can't do that. That kind of trade is reserved for teams that are all in on winning the cup that year, not just making the playoffs. I in no way want the Habs to do what Columbus did and gut their team just to make the playoffs.

 

I remember the brutal days of the late 90s and early 2000s where we missed the playoffs for a few years in a row (was it 4 out of 5?) and here we are again and it is painful.

 

I would look at trading Price to see if that would give us some help (and a big hell no to the idea of trading everyone for picks and prospects, that is a really bad idea). Calgary may be a trading partner for Price. We get Rittich and a young prospect and Lucic as the cap dump - I know that eyes are rolling with the Lucic idea but he is there for cap reasons and he is the type of player that may be a perfect fit for Domi. We let Rittich and Primeau tandem until Primeau is ready to roll.

 

IDK if that is a horrible idea or not but I'm sick of not watching the Montreal Canadiens play in the post season.

 

[JoeLassister]

14 hours ago, Commandant said:

 

Suzuki should be untouchable

 

The rest of those players do not get you a first pair LHD. 

Depends. IMO,   if there is a team  who already has a rising bluechip LHD in their system, then Mete + Poehling + 1st  would probably  notch  a first pair LHD if it comes along with some sort of a cap relief dump player (à la Bickell/Datsuyk/Horton of this world).

That's the kind of situation I would look for if I were MB.

[TurdBurglar]

Why are we trading price?  If primeau is a #1 goalie for sure, which is never guaranteed, he’s still 5-6 years away.  Trading Price would be a bigger setback than keeping him.  

 

Good goalies are hard to come by and even more expensive to acquire.  

[xXx..CK..xXx]

3 hours ago, Prime Minister Koivu said:

 

This is a great post and it really breaks down your argument for patience.

 

If the reality is that a LD would cost us 2-3 prime prospects then we can't do that. That kind of trade is reserved for teams that are all in on winning the cup that year, not just making the playoffs. I in no way want the Habs to do what Columbus did and gut their team just to make the playoffs.

 

I remember the brutal days of the late 90s and early 2000s where we missed the playoffs for a few years in a row (was it 4 out of 5?) and here we are again and it is painful.

 

I would look at trading Price to see if that would give us some help (and a big hell no to the idea of trading everyone for picks and prospects, that is a really bad idea). Calgary may be a trading partner for Price. We get Rittich and a young prospect and Lucic as the cap dump - I know that eyes are rolling with the Lucic idea but he is there for cap reasons and he is the type of player that may be a perfect fit for Domi. We let Rittich and Primeau tandem until Primeau is ready to roll.

 

IDK if that is a horrible idea or not but I'm sick of not watching the Montreal Canadiens play in the post season.

 

Columbus’ situation was unique and they didn’t gut their team to go all in. They were losing their star players one way or the other. The Habs aren’t in a situation like that. Columbus could have shipped Panarin and/or Bobrovsky out because they weren’t going to resign but chose to try to win their first ever playoff round. That was an extremely tough situation to be in, but I have nothing against what their GM did given the cards they were dealt. The Habs don’t have to gut their team to become better. 
 

[Commandant]

1 hour ago, JoeLassister said:

Depends. IMO,   if there is a team  who already has a rising bluechip LHD in their system, then Mete + Poehling + 1st  would probably  notch  a first pair LHD if it comes along with some sort of a cap relief dump player (à la Bickell/Datsuyk/Horton of this world).

That's the kind of situation I would look for if I were MB.

 

 

That blue chip d would have to be young and under team control for a long time cause thats three pretty big pieces given up in a 1st, mete and poehling.

 

I wouldnt want someone who is 27 for that with like 2 years til ufa.

 

Id need a guy who is 22 and coming off an elc.

 

The number of stud 22 year old d who are moved is pretty low. Like almost zero.