GDT: Montreal vs Carolina, Dec. 23, 2010

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Projected Lines:
Kostitsyn - Plekanec - Cammalleri Pacioretty - Gomez - Gionta Pyatt - Eller- Moen Darche - Halpern - Lapierre   Picard - Weber Gill - Gorges Hamrlik - Spacek   Price Auld	Cole - Staal - Skinner Jokinen - Sutter - Ruutu LaRose - Dwyer - Samsonov Boychuk - Carter - Bodie   Gleason - Corvo Harrison - White McBain - Pitkanen   Ward Peters
Scoring Leaders:
Goals: Gionta, Cammalleri (12) Assists: Plekanec (18) Points: Plekanec (28) +/-: Kosty (+9)	Goals: Staal (16) Assists:Jokinen(18) Points: Staal (33) +/-: Sutter (+9)
Team Stats/Notes:
Record: 19-13-2 (3rd in East) Scratches: Pouliot, Subban Injuries: Markov	Record: 15-13-4 (9th in East) Scratches: Injuries: Tlusty

Puck Drop: 7:00 PM EST

TV: RDS

Radio: CJAD, CKAC

Edited December 23, 2010 by lazy26

[johnnyhasbeen]

Time to turn it around and grab a road win.

GO HABS GO

[Chris]

Eller is much more noticable at center. Put AK46 back in and see what happens.

Unfortunately I smell another blow out. 5-1 Canes.

[jrhabs]

Another scary game... and against a nemesis in Raleigh also

[hab29RETIRED]

Another scary game... and against a nemesis in Raleigh also

I really hate Cam ward, like Brodeur, he seems to be like kryptonite for the habs. At least we did beat him early in the year when he was struggling, but lately he has been as hot as Price was at the start of the year.

Edited December 23, 2010 by hab29RETIRED

[BTH]

I really hate Cam ward, like Brodeur, he seems to be like kryptonite for the habs. At least we did beat him early in the year when he was struggling, but lately he has been as hot as Price was at the start of the year.

Cam Ward and Price have always reminded me of each other. In playing style, in demeanor, in talent and even in looks:

[jrhabs]

Combined with the way we are playing , it doesn't bode well for tonite :|

[Habsfan84]

Put Kostitsyn back in. We need him in there.

[PMAC]

First time in years I have the chance to see a bunch of games on tv and they decide to start losing. I didnt fly all the way from Qatar to watch losses After seeing the Habs winning streak when I am watching end, and missing the Dallas game, I am looking forward to the Habs thumping the Canes :hlogo: :hlogo:

[hab29RETIRED]

First time in years I have the chance to see a bunch of games on tv and they decide to start losing. I didnt fly all the way from Qatar to watch losses After seeing the Habs winning streak when I am watching end, and missing the Dallas game, I am looking forward to the Habs thumping the Canes :hlogo: :hlogo:

Well I thought I'd miss the games between Xmas and new year's but cancelled our trip due to crappy weather on the west coast. I don't what is harder to take - the crappy weather or being able to watch more losses!

[lazy26]

Habs IO reporting that PK and Pouliot will sit while Kostitsyn and Weber draw back into the lineup.

I want to know what kind of material Picard has on Martin that absolves him of all his errors. He's been brutal lately.

[hab29RETIRED]

Well looks like pouliot and subban are out. I think I've already said how much I hate JM. Why he isn't sitting Picard and laps/pyatt/darche instead is beyond me.

Young players need time to develop and be allowed to learn from mistakes. We also need to let Gus play longer then a few periods to develop some chemistry.

I wish the coaches would try and keep the followin lines intact for at least 3-4 games.

Cammy-Pleks-ak46

Maxpac-Gomez-Gionta

Pouliot-Eller-laps

Moen-halpern-pyatt/darche

Habs IO reporting that PK and Pouliot will sit while Kostitsyn and Weber draw back into the lineup.

I want to know what kind of material Picard has on Martin that absolves him of all his errors. He's been brutal lately.

Picard is this years MAB.

[lazy26]

Picard is this years MAB.

MAB at least brought something to the table on a fairly consistent basis (his shots, not his gaffes!). Picard started off as a serviceable bottom pairing D, but he's struggled of late, and I fail to see why he doesn't get benched when JM is benching those making similar errors. Factor in that he's beat up, and I really question why Picard plays over PK.

[BCHabnut]

Ya, I don't get why Picard isn't benched over Subaan

[dlbalr]

MAB at least brought something to the table on a fairly consistent basis (his shots, not his gaffes!). Picard started off as a serviceable bottom pairing D, but he's struggled of late, and I fail to see why he doesn't get benched when JM is benching those making similar errors. Factor in that he's beat up, and I really question why Picard plays over PK.

What if they were to try a rotation? 2 of Picard, Subban, Weber play, 1 sits. At least it keeps them playing most of the time. Subban hasn't done a whole lot better since he came back (better than before the scratching but as someone, I think Wamsley, noted in another GDT, he's good for one really dumb, costly turnover each night). Sadly, Picard's the same, I can't think of a logical reason why he can't be sat to be honest. Throwing something out as a guess, Martin may feel more comfortable with the so-so play of Picard over the uncertainty that exists with Subban (he'll be better than so-so some nights, worse others), similar to the Moen with Plekanec discussion from another day.

[Chris]

The big problem is ALL 6 OF THEM should be benched for there play. The problem is JM prefers to bench rookies. That means Subban or Weber.

It's not a big deal.

[lazy26]

What if they were to try a rotation? 2 of Picard, Subban, Weber play, 1 sits. At least it keeps them playing most of the time. Subban hasn't done a whole lot better since he came back (better than before the scratching but as someone, I think Wamsley, noted in another GDT, he's good for one really dumb, costly turnover each night). Sadly, Picard's the same, I can't think of a logical reason why he can't be sat to be honest. Throwing something out as a guess, Martin may feel more comfortable with the so-so play of Picard over the uncertainty that exists with Subban (he'll be better than so-so some nights, worse others), similar to the Moen with Plekanec discussion from another day.

I'm not so sure about a rotation idea. For me, a spot in the lineup should be based on merit, and if it's simply based on "being my turn", I'm not as inclined to work as hard. It's that whole positive reinforcement thing .

That's why I have such an issue with Picard in the lineup. I don't think that his play of late has merited it. You are, however, likely bang-on with the consistent "so-so" element of Picard's game, which may lead JM to prefer him over PK at the moment. I just happen to disagree with the idea.

[CoRvInA]

If Picard is being played less than 20 min i would bench him too... but he's being used around 20min . If Weber can be responsible to play 20+ then i would not remove him from the line-up.... We need the Dmen to go back to basics... sound defensive play and rack up them minutes away from Spacek and Hammer

So only D JM can on paper afford to remove are the less than 20 min playing D These are Subban Gill and Gorges (according to last game stats)

Immediate worry is GILL playing 15 min (his ideal playing time). Gorges playing 19 min when he should of played 15 (he's so beat up) Healthy he should be at +20 mi. But how can you remove these two from your line up?

[brobin]

I wonder how long it will take for a new coach to rebuild subban's confidence (ala Pacs).

PK is making more mistakes, which, imo, is because he is afraid to do anything.. when a guy loses confidence like that he starts to hesitate and make stupid plays. PK is not the same guy he was before the benching. While his points were down in the games before, his plus minus wasn't. It has been brutal since JM "gave him a new perspective".

In the last game, Gorges, Picard, and Spacek were particularly brutal. They are all playing tonight.

I can't tell if there is something going on with PK behind the scenes, or if this is just typical JM "bench the rookies" crap, but it worries me. We were playing pretty well until JM started "actively managing the team". Sigh...

I sure hope they show up to play tonight. I suspect some of this is the reality sinking in that they are not in the elite of the NHL, but I fear some of this play is a sign of internal troubles.

[bar]

Jm continues to not make sense. I just don't know what to think, I pose a question to everyone. Do you enjoy habs hockey under JMs reign? Winning is great, and every fan wants a team to win, but I really hate how this team is handicapped offensively, either it's by JMs design (my theory) or player imposed. I don't really like it this defensive minded game. I get depressed watching games that go into the third with the habs down a goal, cause I pretty much know they aren't going to come back. A couple years ago when they were the cardiac habs, I never knew what to expect, and I think I preferred that to this.

[Wamsley01]

I wonder how long it will take for a new coach to rebuild subban's confidence (ala Pacs).

PK is making more mistakes, which, imo, is because he is afraid to do anything.. when a guy loses confidence like that he starts to hesitate and make stupid plays. PK is not the same guy he was before the benching. While his points were down in the games before, his plus minus wasn't. It has been brutal since JM "gave him a new perspective".

In the last game, Gorges, Picard, and Spacek were particularly brutal. They are all playing tonight.

I can't tell if there is something going on with PK behind the scenes, or if this is just typical JM "bench the rookies" crap, but it worries me. We were playing pretty well until JM started "actively managing the team". Sigh...

I sure hope they show up to play tonight. I suspect some of this is the reality sinking in that they are not in the elite of the NHL, but I fear some of this play is a sign of internal troubles.

I hate that the onus gets placed on Martin and not on Subban.

Whether he knows it or not, he is a professional now. I have no problem in Martin telling him that the way he was playing

was unacceptable. If you want Mike Green, then you get bounced in the first round by inferior teams. The Canadiens way was

good enough for Chelios, Desjardins, Schneider etc. You play defense and figure out how to create offense without compromising

the system or you don't play.

That is what ELITE defensemen are made of. If the Habs have to miss the playoffs for Subban to become a perennial Norris trophy

candidate, then so be it. Too much short term thinking, it is quite amazing the hypocrisy on this board in the way fans demanded

Price be benched and then overreact to Subban being benched.

This is on PK to figure it out, just like Price had to come to the realization that he needs to bust his ass to be a great goaltender.

Cam Ward and Price have always reminded me of each other. In playing style, in demeanor, in talent and even in looks:

They are very similar in ability. Ward has the same great footwork and he reads the play very well. Price is much bigger and

has the same athleticism. IMO the two of them and Miller are the best 3 goalies in the league.

Next time you watch them look at their head in relation to the puck. They track it better than anybody else in the league.

Follow their eyes and it is always on the puck. Contrast them to Thomas/Anderson and you will see a massive difference.

That is what allows Price/Ward to make those cross crease saves that look like gimmes.

[Lammy]

GO HABS GO!!! :hlogo:

[JoeLassister]

I hate that the onus gets placed on Martin and not on Subban.

Whether he knows it or not, he is a professional now. I have no problem in Martin telling him that the way he was playing

was unacceptable. If you want Mike Green, then you get bounced in the first round by inferior teams. The Canadiens way was

good enough for Chelios, Desjardins, Schneider etc. You play defense and figure out how to create offense without compromising

the system or you don't play.

That is what ELITE defensemen are made of. If the Habs have to miss the playoffs for Subban to become a perennial Norris trophy

candidate, then so be it. Too much short term thinking, it is quite amazing the hypocrisy on this board in the way fans demanded

Price be benched and then overreact to Subban being benched.

This is on PK to figure it out, just like Price had to come to the realization that he needs to bust his ass to be a great goaltender.

the problem is more that Subban was not the worst dman on the team in the couple last game and still got benched tonight.

I mean, click on my link, look the video of Kevin Porter's goal and try to tell me without blinking that this is not the same kind of play that would get Subban benched...

http://www.nhl.com/ice/boxscore.htm?id=201...vid=sb:boxscore

[BTH]

the problem is more that Subban was not the worst dman on the team in the couple last game and still got benched tonight.

I mean, click on my link, look the video of Kevin Porter's goal and try to tell me without blinking that this is not the same kind of play that would get Subban benched...

http://www.nhl.com/ice/boxscore.htm?id=201...vid=sb:boxscore

I think Martin's favorites are based more on attitude than ability. He likes people that do whatever he tells them to do (Darche, Moen, I suspect Picard) but doesn't seem willing to work with players that do their own thing (Latendresse, Sergei K, I suspect Subban). For better or worse, Subban will ride the bench until he starts playing Martin's game.

[brobin]

the only problem with that theory is that in Belleville, PK was constantly viewed as having the best attitude on the club. He was easily coached, he never threw a fit, or complained.

The issue is not that players like Pacs or PK are sulking, or not trying. The issue is when your confidence is shaken and you are afraid to make a mistake, your game suffers. Great coaches can tell a player the mistakes he is making without hurting their confidence. Everything I have ever heard from PK is that he wants to learn. I just don't think any of the rookies have a clue from night to night what JM expects of them, or what gets them benched.

And to be clear, I am just using this as a recent example. Pacs got the treatment last year. Many of the rookies seem to respond to a JM benching with no positive results. This is not good coaching. Plenty of rookies get benched on other teams, but I it usually helps, not hurts.

I think Martin's favorites are based more on attitude than ability. He likes people that do whatever he tells them to do (Darche, Moen, I suspect Picard) but doesn't seem willing to work with players that do their own thing (Latendresse, Sergei K, I suspect Subban). For better or worse, Subban will ride the bench until he starts playing Martin's game.