dlbalr Posted February 26 Author Share Posted February 26 Anderson to Vancouver makes some sense in terms of fit. But they would need to move money out beyond this season for it to make any sense for them. (Think Mikheyev or Garland who would match most of the money for a while.) That's probably the crux of a viable trade, not one that sees them weaken their back end (an area they're looking to upgrade) and trade their top prospect. They have ~35 million for next year in cap space for 10-12 players, one of which is Pettersson who will be 12+ while Hronek will need a big boost as well so there goes more than half of it to two players. For them to take on any long-term money, they have to offset it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alfredoh2009 Posted February 26 Share Posted February 26 12 minutes ago, dlbalr said: Anderson to Vancouver makes some sense in terms of fit. But they would need to move money out beyond this season for it to make any sense for them. (Think Mikheyev or Garland who would match most of the money for a while.) That's probably the crux of a viable trade, not one that sees them weaken their back end (an area they're looking to upgrade) and trade their top prospect. They have ~35 million for next year in cap space for 10-12 players, one of which is Pettersson who will be 12+ while Hronek will need a big boost as well so there goes more than half of it to two players. For them to take on any long-term money, they have to offset it. I did not look at it beyond this season. They can manage assets at the draft or this summer. This move would help them in the short term, until Soucy is back and at a lower cap hit with Harris. I believe Soucy will be back for the playoffs, if I read the reports correctly. He seems to be a LD they trust in their back end. I know that Anderson has done very poorly this season, but I sincerely believe he would do better in the playoffs for another team. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commandant Posted February 26 Share Posted February 26 1 hour ago, alfredoh2009 said: he was in the list from the Atheltic as available under the right circumstances. In most recent (1 month or less) publications he is not listed as untouchable. So, yes. It all depends on whether it is true that a bruising winger with Stanley cup experience is viewed as a need for VAN. Harris on D would help them too, on a deep cup run. He is a very good depth LD that can play RD. He is also young enough to be part of their team for a while. Anderson and Harris are not rentals, which is a type of player they have said they do not want. It is unlikely to happen, but it is probable with low probability. He might be available on the right circumstances. The right circumstances is a real difference maker not a guy struggling like Josh Anderson. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeLassister Posted February 26 Share Posted February 26 Media in QC here asking the fans who they would target as part of a significant trade : 1. Trevor Zegras 2. Kent Johnson 3. Kaapo Kakko 4. Matt Boldy 5. Casey Mittelstadt 6. Elias Pettersson 7. Dylan Cozens 8. Other Not sure we want to go as big as Pettersson (or even Boldy), but some interesting names in there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dlbalr Posted February 26 Author Share Posted February 26 2 hours ago, alfredoh2009 said: I did not look at it beyond this season. They can manage assets at the draft or this summer. This move would help them in the short term, until Soucy is back and at a lower cap hit with Harris. I believe Soucy will be back for the playoffs, if I read the reports correctly. He seems to be a LD they trust in their back end. I know that Anderson has done very poorly this season, but I sincerely believe he would do better in the playoffs for another team. We live in a cap world, you always have to look beyond this season (unless it's only UFAs on expiring contracts). You know how hard it is to clear money so a smart team wouldn't look at the cap problem and go 'we don't know how to fix it but we'll figure it out in the summer'. That's a recipe for disaster. When I mentioned Vancouver was looking to upgrade on defence, I didn't mean defensive depth. They're looking for a top-four guy. (More specifically, they're looking at Tanev.) Harris helps the third pairing but adding him and losing Myers is a net drop-off in talent at the position they want to improve. That means they're not going to do it. I agree that Anderson could rebound with another organization and Vancouver does make some sense. But your proposal has to make sense for them - they're not taking on money they can't afford long term, losing their top prospect, and weakening the position they want to improve at just to add Anderson and a third-pairing guy in Harris. That's not a smart proposition for them. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dlbalr Posted February 26 Author Share Posted February 26 25 minutes ago, JoeLassister said: Media in QC here asking the fans who they would target as part of a significant trade : 1. Trevor Zegras 2. Kent Johnson 3. Kaapo Kakko 4. Matt Boldy 5. Casey Mittelstadt 6. Elias Pettersson 7. Dylan Cozens 8. Other Not sure we want to go as big as Pettersson (or even Boldy), but some interesting names in there. Several of those players won't be available (Boldy/Pettersson/Cozens). Johnson is one I could see the Habs kicking tires on and Zegras they've already been linked to. Kakko doesn't make a lot of sense and Mittelstadt will have a high asking price (both acquisition and as an RFA) which might price him out of there range. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Habs Fan in Edmonton Posted February 26 Share Posted February 26 4 hours ago, alfredoh2009 said: he was in the list from the Atheltic as available under the right circumstances. In most recent (1 month or less) publications he is not listed as untouchable. So, yes. It all depends on whether it is true that a bruising winger with Stanley cup experience is viewed as a need for VAN. Harris on D would help them too, on a deep cup run. He is a very good depth LD that can play RD. He is also young enough to be part of their team for a while. Anderson and Harris are not rentals, which is a type of player they have said they do not want. It is unlikely to happen, but it is probable with low probability. Anderson could help Vancouver but we would have to take salary back. I just don't think you will get Lekkerimaki without giving up something significant as he is a highly touted prospect. Harris might be useful but we would have to add significantly more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GHT120 Posted February 26 Share Posted February 26 14 minutes ago, Habs Fan in Edmonton said: Anderson could help Vancouver ... But would he help them for 3 more years at $5.5M against their cap? 17 minutes ago, Habs Fan in Edmonton said: ... but we would have to take salary back ... Who does Vancouver have that the Habs could (a) take back to offset the cap-hit ... AND ... (b) for whom Anderson would be an upgrade? Not certain there is anyone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TurdBurglar Posted February 26 Share Posted February 26 5 minutes ago, GHT120 said: But would he help them for 3 more years at $5.5M against their cap? If Vancouver is really interested in Anderson, I wouldn't be opposed to retaining Anderson for 4 years if the return from Vancouver included Letterimaki. The salary retention alone would be worth a significant amount to Montreal. That being said, I'm not sure Vancouver has an appetite for Anderson for 4 years. They could flip him sometime in the future. Very well doubt this scenario happens anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alfredoh2009 Posted February 26 Share Posted February 26 (edited) Myers, he is a pending UFA at $6M. Reportedly being played a lot lately but did not have a good start to the season and was being played less. Ian Cole is another option, but his cap hit is only $3M. Anderson at 50% cap-hit could be an option there but I am not sure I like that deal for Montreal (cap hit for the 3 years and prorated this year, right?): To MTL: Ian Cole ($3M/pending UFA) Jonathan Lekkerimäki To VAN: Josh Anderson (50% $5.5m/2027), Jordan Harris (50% 1.4M/2025) = $3.45M/cap-hit VAN can send Arshdeep Bains down to make room under the cap and put Anderson in that spot. Edited February 26 by alfredoh2009 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TurdBurglar Posted February 26 Share Posted February 26 4 minutes ago, alfredoh2009 said: Myers, he is a pending UFA at $6M. Reportedly being played a lot lately but did not have a good start to the season and was being played less. Ian Cole is another option, but his cap hit is only $3M. Anderson at 50% cap-hit could be an option there but I am not sure I like that deal for Montreal (cap hit for the 3 years and prorated this year, right?): To MTL: Ian Cole ($3M/pending UFA) Jonathan Lekkerimäki To VAN: Josh Anderson (50% $5.5m/2027), Jordan Harris (50% 1.4M/2025) = $3.45M/cap-hit VAN can send Arshdeep Bains down to make room under the cap and put Anderson in that spot. Just from a technical standpoint, Montreal only has 1 retention slot leaf for this season, so they can't retain on Anderson and Harris. From a value standpoint, I would imagine Vancouver wants much more in return for Lekkerimaki than Anderson and Harris, even with a big retention. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GHT120 Posted February 26 Share Posted February 26 16 minutes ago, alfredoh2009 said: Myers, he is a pending UFA at $6M. Reportedly being played a lot lately but did not have a good start to the season and was being played less. Ian Cole is another option, but his cap hit is only $3M. Anderson at 50% cap-hit could be an option there but I am not sure I like that deal for Montreal (cap hit for the 3 years and prorated this year, right?): To MTL: Ian Cole ($3M/pending UFA) Jonathan Lekkerimäki To VAN: Josh Anderson (50% $5.5m/2027), Jordan Harris (50% 1.4M/2025) = $3.45M/cap-hit VAN can send Arshdeep Bains down to make room under the cap and put Anderson in that spot. Myers and Cole are (by TOI) the 'Nucks second pairing ... not certain they improve their defence by replacing either by Harris, which is important in a season where they are leading the western conference. I also agree with @TurdBurglar that it will take a lot more than Anderson, Harris and some salary retention (even if the habs could retain on both) players to get the 15th overall pick from 2022 who is 7th in SweHL goal scoring this season and tied for the goal scoring lead at this past WJHC. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Habs Fan in Edmonton Posted February 26 Share Posted February 26 1 hour ago, GHT120 said: But would he help them for 3 more years at $5.5M against their cap? Who does Vancouver have that the Habs could (a) take back to offset the cap-hit ... AND ... (b) for whom Anderson would be an upgrade? Not certain there is anyone. I thinking we are all grasping at straws trying to make an Anderson deal work when in reality it is very difficult. I haven't seen anyone propose a decent deal for Anderson yet that is fair to both sides. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alfredoh2009 Posted February 26 Share Posted February 26 43 minutes ago, Habs Fan in Edmonton said: I thinking we are all grasping at straws trying to make an Anderson deal work when in reality it is very difficult. I haven't seen anyone propose a decent deal for Anderson yet that is fair to both sides. was it @Sir_Boagalott that was proposing Pezzetta to VAN? I that door is open, for a robust winger that can play minutes, then I tried to open it and see if there could be a trade. I think that Anderson at a lower cap hit would be just fine in any cup contending’s 3rd line. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Habs Fan in Edmonton Posted February 26 Share Posted February 26 29 minutes ago, alfredoh2009 said: I think that Anderson at a lower cap hit would be just fine in any cup contending’s 3rd line. Sure, a cup contender might love Anderson at 2.5M/year or less but that is not the reality. The problem with trying to trade Anderson now is that you are selling at the lowest possible point, not good asset management. Better to wait and see if he rebounds next year unless you are able to catch another GM in a weak moment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dlbalr Posted February 26 Author Share Posted February 26 2 hours ago, alfredoh2009 said: Myers, he is a pending UFA at $6M. Reportedly being played a lot lately but did not have a good start to the season and was being played less. Ian Cole is another option, but his cap hit is only $3M. Anderson at 50% cap-hit could be an option there but I am not sure I like that deal for Montreal (cap hit for the 3 years and prorated this year, right?): To MTL: Ian Cole ($3M/pending UFA) Jonathan Lekkerimäki To VAN: Josh Anderson (50% $5.5m/2027), Jordan Harris (50% 1.4M/2025) = $3.45M/cap-hit VAN can send Arshdeep Bains down to make room under the cap and put Anderson in that spot. So Vancouver takes on money for the next three years and doesn't send any out beyond this season? That's still basically a non-starter for them and they're still not moving Lekkerimaki for him. And there's a case to make that their defence is still weaker which doesn't address the area they're looking to address. If you're putting Anderson in a Vancouver proposal, one of Garland or Mikheyev needs to be in there to match money for a couple of years. Expiring contracts will not do it. Otherwise, it's not an option for them; they have to offset the money or at least the majority of it for a trade to be remotely feasible. And even with that, Lekkerimaki is a pipe dream, they're not moving their top prospect for a change-of-scenery guy. It just makes zero sense for them to do so. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alfredoh2009 Posted February 27 Share Posted February 27 51 minutes ago, Habs Fan in Edmonton said: Sure, a cup contender might love Anderson at 2.5M/year or less but that is not the reality. The problem with trying to trade Anderson now is that you are selling at the lowest possible point, not good asset management. Better to wait and see if he rebounds next year unless you are able to catch another GM in a weak moment. I would be surprised Anderson rebounds under MSL. I doubt that happens Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alfredoh2009 Posted February 27 Share Posted February 27 1 hour ago, dlbalr said: So Vancouver takes on money for the next three years and doesn't send any out beyond this season? That's still basically a non-starter for them and they're still not moving Lekkerimaki for him. And there's a case to make that their defence is still weaker which doesn't address the area they're looking to address. If you're putting Anderson in a Vancouver proposal, one of Garland or Mikheyev needs to be in there to match money for a couple of years. Expiring contracts will not do it. Otherwise, it's not an option for them; they have to offset the money or at least the majority of it for a trade to be remotely feasible. And even with that, Lekkerimaki is a pipe dream, they're not moving their top prospect for a change-of-scenery guy. It just makes zero sense for them to do so. Fair points, I went and re-read the articles I referred to and yes Lekkerimaki is a stretch. For VAN, Savard for Mikheyev would be a better trade, it MTL is in the trading list for Mikheyev. To make it more palatable for MTL, I would want one of Raty or Hoglander coming back. So: To MTL: Mikheyev ($4.75M/to2026) Raty ($0.837M/to2025) or Hoglander ($1.1M/to3025) = $5,58M to $5.85M To VAN: Savard ( $3.5M/to2025) + Anderson (50% =$2.75M/to2027) = 6.25M and again, they can send Bains down to fit Anderson under the cap. Here is the current VAN forward group, in yellow are the players that in the Athletic they mentioned that they would want to keep, with red lines the ones that they may want to move if the offers is good to them: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TurdBurglar Posted February 27 Share Posted February 27 39 minutes ago, alfredoh2009 said: I would be surprised Anderson rebounds under MSL. I doubt that happens I'm not sure MSL is Anderson's problem. MSL puts Anderson in positions to succeed. Anderson has been getting some great chances, he's just severely snake bitten and it's not from lack of effort. He's a bit of an enigma. With his playstyle and the chances he's been getting, he should have more points. His career shooting % is listed at 11%, but has been 12%+ the last 4 years. He's shooting at 6.5% this year. Granted, he's spent the majority of this season in his own bubble on the ice, with his lack of awareness of his teammates. I see Anderson as just snake bitten and having a bad year. Sure we give him a hard time on these forums, but I honestly doubt this is the Anderson we see next season. I have been wrong before though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dlbalr Posted February 27 Author Share Posted February 27 44 minutes ago, alfredoh2009 said: Fair points, I went and re-read the articles I referred to and yes Lekkerimaki is a stretch. For VAN, Savard for Mikheyev would be a better trade, it MTL is in the trading list for Mikheyev. To make it more palatable for MTL, I would want one of Raty or Hoglander coming back. So: To MTL: Mikheyev ($4.75M/to2026) Raty ($0.837M/to2025) or Hoglander ($1.1M/to3025) = $5,58M to $5.85M To VAN: Savard ( $3.5M/to2025) + Anderson (50% =$2.75M/to2027) = 6.25M and again, they can send Bains down to fit Anderson under the cap. Here is the current VAN forward group, in yellow are the players that in the Athletic they mentioned that they would want to keep, with red lines the ones that they may want to move if the offers is good to them. I think you've skewed too far the other way. Why does Montreal eat 50% on Anderson and lose one of their better veteran trade assets for one of Raty or Hoglander, bottom-six guys at best? Mikheyev is a bad-value contract, not someone the Habs should be asking for in a Savard trade. A Mikheyev-Anderson swap with no retention on either side makes some sense as veterans that are underachieving. Keep it simple, that's the bulk of a semi-viable trade right there. It doesn't need a lot of other elements and certainly not either team moving a strong trade chip. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sir_Boagalott Posted February 27 Share Posted February 27 There are numerous potential problems to the trade proposals regarding Andy or Savard and I wouldn't move either of them this year at all. Like has been stated Andy is at his all time low so it would be hard to move him or get a high value for him and I tend to agree that he could possibly rebound next season anyway. Savard is a vet that is actually playing well and his salary isn't crazy, plus is Reinbacher or Mailloux ready to take his place yet? That's a big unknown right now. Yes, moving the highest paid albatross contract makes the most sense, but do you really want the Habs to be involved in the historic 1st trade of the Lake Placid Cougars and send them Gally and 2 1st rnd pics for futures? Gally isn't going anywhere because Hughes would have to handsomely pay a team to take him. Not to mention he is the longest serving Habs player and he deserves to be on the Habs Cup winning team. It sucks Dvo got injured and is unable to increase his worth this year too. He'll likely be difficult to move as well. Another issue is that almost all of the players that are being mentioned to trade off are all the Habs oldest and most experienced players. With all the youngsters the Habs have they absolutely need to have some vets. Having almost an entire team of under 25 year olds isn't exactly a good idea. They need to have some veterans to be leaders. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GHT120 Posted February 27 Share Posted February 27 15 minutes ago, Sir_Boagalott said: ... Like has been stated Andy is at his all time low so it would be hard to move him or get a high value for him ... Savard is a vet that is actually playing well and his salary isn't crazy I can accept the argument for Anderson's value being at an all-time low, but even he bounces back to 17 goals/season average, given his inability to complement the other members of any line on which he has been placed I don't kbnow that his value would be all-that high. As for Savard ... his value may well be as high as it is ever going to get. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Habs Fan in Edmonton Posted February 27 Share Posted February 27 3 hours ago, alfredoh2009 said: I would be surprised Anderson rebounds under MSL. I doubt that happens What is the alternative, throw a bunch of sweeteners (ie draft picks) so someone takes him? Montreal will wait on Anderson. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Habs Fan in Edmonton Posted February 27 Share Posted February 27 2 hours ago, GHT120 said: I can accept the argument for Anderson's value being at an all-time low, but even he bounces back to 17 goals/season average, given his inability to complement the other members of any line on which he has been placed I don't kbnow that his value would be all-that high. As for Savard ... his value may well be as high as it is ever going to get. Anderson's value may not be that high if he rebounds but it would certainly be higher than now. Agree about Savard, very attractive target for a team that wants to beef up their defense for a long run in the playoffs. He is a warrior. Now if the Habs retained 50% then he is very very attractive, Savard at 1.75M for 2 playoff runs is definitely worth at least a 1st in my opinion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dalhabs Posted February 27 Share Posted February 27 I have this feeling we better keep Savard as veteran help for all young D coming here. Only trade him if someone throws everything at us for him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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