Permanent Trade Proposal Thread

[Machine of Loving Grace]

All of these seven step team fixes tell me one thing: Montreal is nowhere complete enough to win a Cup. Time to rebuild.

[DON]

2 minutes ago, Machine of Loving Grace said:

All of these seven step team fixes tell me one thing: Montreal is nowhere complete enough to win a Cup. Time to rebuild.

Too funny...out to lunch and based on what who knows... but funny.

[sbhatt]

22 hours ago, Stogey24 said:

When he's scoring goals, he's one of the better players in the league. When he goes cold, he's virtually invisible.

 

Sportsnet panel called him out too. An absolute non factor when he's not scoring. Something that has plagued him his entire career. 

 

Is Max a 9 million dollar player? Because after this year, he'll be asking for that kind of money 

 

 

 

His agent should be laughed out of the room if he asks for anywhere near that amount...in whatever city he's asking for it.  It better not be Montreal, because he needs to be traded for as much as possible well before then IF this organization is serious about playoff success.  Max is a regular season, no pressure on kind of guy when it comes to production.

 

 

[The Chicoutimi Cucumber]

1 hour ago, sbhatt said:

 

His agent should be laughed out of the room if he asks for anywhere near that amount...in whatever city he's asking for it.  It better not be Montreal, because he needs to be traded for as much as possible well before then IF this organization is serious about playoff success.  Max is a regular season, no pressure on kind of guy when it comes to production.

 

 

 

 

Pacioretty is a good player, not a great player. He is a goal scorer, not a guy who is going to quarterback an offence or take a team on his back. He is also streaky, as most scorers are.

 

What that means to me is that he needs a supporting cast. Right now teams zero in on him, shut him down, and so shut down the Habs. Add some supplementary scoring, and dollars to doughnuts Patches suddenly starts producing in the playoffs. 

 

And yeh, he should not be C, not because he is somehow 'not a leader,' but because as the guy who cannot carry the offence all alone but is expected to do so, the letter puts a whole heap of unnecessary pressure on his shoulders.

[JoeLassister]

I agree.

 

I don't give a damn about the captaincy.

The son of  Mark Messier and Joan of Arc wouldn't have taken them any further without any scoring.

[Commandant]

Where did $9 million come from. 

 

There are 6 players in the NHL with a cap hit of $9 million or higher... (Toews, Kane, Kopitar, Subban, Malkin, Ovechkin).  

I love Pacioretty but he's not in that class. 

 

There are another 8 players in the NHL who are over $8 million... (Crosby, Perry, Stamkos, Lundqvist, Giroux, Getzlaf, Voracek, Kessel)

Pacioretty isn't in that class either.  He's better than Perry is right now, but Perry was better when he signed.  Its more regression of Perry than it is Max being in the class.  Same with Giroux. 

 

 

So tell me how he's asking for $9 million?  Who is reporting this as a realistic number?

Right now, he's not getting more than Weber's 7.825.  He's not more valuable to the team than Weber. 

 

The only guy who can ask for more than Weber is Price. 

[Guest Stogey24]

 

Captain, 82 game player, 70pt guy, 30-35 goal scorer, and just coming off a very under paid contract. He's getting in the 8-9 range. 

 

[hab29RETIRED]

41 minutes ago, Stogey24 said:

 

Captain, 82 game player, 70pt guy, 30-35 goal scorer, and just coming off a very under paid contract. He's getting in the 8-9 range. 

 

I think he will easily get a Phil Kessel type of contract based on his numbers.  The fact that he is a captain is irrelevant.  If as a captain he had led us to a cup, it would be a factor.

[Guest Stogey24]

7 minutes ago, hab29RETIRED said:

I think he will easily get a Phil Kessel type of contract based on his numbers.  The fact that he is a captain is irrelevant.  If as a captain he had led us to a cup, it would be a factor.

How is that irrelevant.  He's the "leader" of this team. Lots of players get over paid on character alone(Andrew Shaw). It's taken into account, without question 

 

Kessel makes 6.8 a year and signed it back in 14'. That's 37th in the league salary wise. Max is getting more than that. 

[Commandant]

33 minutes ago, Stogey24 said:

How is that irrelevant.  He's the "leader" of this team. Lots of players get over paid on character alone(Andrew Shaw). It's taken into account, without question 

 

Kessel makes 6.8 a year and signed it back in 14'. That's 37th in the league salary wise. Max is getting more than that. 

 

Kessel gets 8 per year.

The Leafs retained 1.2 million in salary. 

 

I'm also not sure that Max is better than Kessel, who was basically a 75+ point guy when he signed that deal. 

[Guest Stogey24]

Ya, forgot about the salary. I was going to say that seemed low 

 

I just see max going big on this contract 

[habs rule]

6 hours ago, JoeLassister said:

I agree.

 

I don't give a damn about the captaincy.

The son of  Mark Messier and Joan of Arc wouldn't have taken them any further without any scoring.

I heard Joan was a hell of a scorer, and was hotter than all get out.

[Machine of Loving Grace]

4 hours ago, Stogey24 said:

 

Captain, 82 game player, 70pt guy, 30-35 goal scorer, and just coming off a very under paid contract. He's getting in the 8-9 range. 

 

 

He's never had 70 points.

 

I can get the idea of him making that money to make up for the money he lost on his agent convincing him to sign for dirt cheap in Montreal but that's it.

 

When you look at Anaheim and see Silfverberg and remember they got him for Bobby Ryan it makes me wonder what high end prospect one could get for Pacioretty.

[xXx..CK..xXx]

Pacioretty is one of the best goal scorers in the league. It makes me sick to my stomach that we need more goal scoring and people want to trade him in order to help acquire someone who will help in that department. I'm going into full defender mode of him because he takes too much heat. I've never thought much of him in international play, I'll admit, but in the NHL he's an elite goal scorer. Trade him to the islanders and he'll be lighting it up, just not for us.

 

The only thing people remember is him getting thrashed on because it seems to happen so often on here. What people don't remember is that half the time he's been off his game, he's had things like broken necks, ribs, etc. etc. people question things like his drive and work ethic and even call him soft and yet his nickname is Wolverine after some of the injuries he's come back from and how quickly he has returned from them. Then he heals up, starts dominating again because he's healthy and players like Gallagher get thrown under the bus until Pacioretty goes silent for 5 more games, as even the best players do, if you watch them all, and then we hear it again.  

 

If you want to get Tavares, there should be three players off your list going the other way: Pacioretty, Weber and Price.

 

Galchenyuk, Beaulieu, 1st you do in a heartbeat. Galchenyuk, Sergachev, 1st I also consider and end up doing. Pacioretty, Beaulieu and a 1st is not far off of a lateral move and while I might do it, we still continue to have offensive issues that we need to address. I'd even trade Markov before Pacioretty for Tavares and I love both of them. 

 

I definitely get why people would do the move but I'm tired of trading away the players we need to build around in return for someone else even though I get that you have to pay to play. Byron and Danault do not belong in the top 6 and they're still there once we trade away Pacioretty for Tavares.

[DON]

13 hours ago, Machine of Loving Grace said:

All of these seven step team fixes tell me one thing: Montreal is nowhere complete enough to win a Cup. Time to rebuild.

Blow it up real good!

 

1 hour ago, Machine of Loving Grace said:

 

He's never had 70 points.

 

No, but 60+ pts for 6 straight years isn't too bad.

[habs rule]

What is the point of trading Patches? He is a solid 30- 40 goal scorer. You gonna get a what? a 41 goal scorer? Come on guys you don't trade offence when you are goal starved. Trade prospects defence but whatever we need more goals. Trading Patches does not make that happen. we need goals wherever they come from, as long as we are not replacing patches goals for some other guys goals.

[DON]

6 hours ago, habs rule said:

What is the point of trading Patches? He is a solid 30- 40 goal scorer. You gonna get a what? a 41 goal scorer? Come on guys you don't trade offence when you are goal starved. Trade prospects defence but whatever we need more goals. Trading Patches does not make that happen. we need goals wherever they come from, as long as we are not replacing patches goals for some other guys goals.

We will find better! He and his American cousin Galchenyuk are as soft to play against as warm butter. If they aint scoring both are useless, they are invisible and simply not our kind of players. Especially not Captain or leader material! Trade those two for Duchene and Landeskog and away we go.

[The Chicoutimi Cucumber]

7 hours ago, habs rule said:

What is the point of trading Patches? He is a solid 30- 40 goal scorer. You gonna get a what? a 41 goal scorer? Come on guys you don't trade offence when you are goal starved. Trade prospects defence but whatever we need more goals. Trading Patches does not make that happen. we need goals wherever they come from, as long as we are not replacing patches goals for some other guys goals.

 

The problem is that this team just does not have enough depth in any area, yet that depth is what you need in order to swing major trades to bolster areas of weakness. We have hardly any top prospects or picks, no surplus strength on D or at FW. The result is that when we think sbout trading for C it tends to sound like a lateral move. It's yet another indictment of Bergevin's inept GMing; we have no area of surplus strength from which to deal.

[Machine of Loving Grace]

Montreal does have a position of strength in the left wing. It's the only position of strength. Especially if Galchenyuk is kept from playing centre.

 

Either Patches or Chuck need to be moved for a centre.

[nihilz]

18 minutes ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said:

 

The problem is that this team just does not have enough depth in any area, yet that depth is what you need in order to swing major trades to bolster areas of weakness. We have hardly any top prospects or picks, no surplus strength on D or at FW. The result is that when we think sbout trading for C it tends to sound like a lateral move. It's yet another indictment of Bergevin's inept GMing; we have no area of surplus strength from which to deal.

Want a 1st line center? Pacioretty is the only piece in shifting balance to the center position. Especially with 2 years left on one of the better contract's in the league. It's the only way unless MB is very aggressive in landing two 2nd line center's this off-season.

 

Pacioretty

Galchenyuk

Lehkonen

Byron

King/Martinsen

Carr/Hudon

 

[The Chicoutimi Cucumber]

24 minutes ago, nihilz said:

Want a 1st line center? Pacioretty is the only piece in shifting balance to the center position. Especially with 2 years left on one of the better contract's in the league. It's the only way unless MB is very aggressive in landing two 2nd line center's this off-season.

 

Pacioretty

Galchenyuk

Lehkonen

Byron

King/Martinsen

Carr/Hudon

 

 

Well, that's kind of my point. A strong organization like Nashville can trade Seth Jones for Ryan Johansen and *still* have four outstanding defencemen. Their excellence in developing blueliners meant they had surplus strength which they could barter off to fill the hole at C. That trade is a case study in disproving Bergevin's repeated claim that it's 'too tough' to get a C. It's tough, but not impossible, IF you have areas of strength from which to deal. But that requires ace drafting and development. Instead the Habs are in a situation where we may have to trade an elite scoring W to get an elite C, a move that would bolster the C position but leave a huge hole in the top 6; basically, moving holes around rather than filling them. We are reaping the consequences of Bergevin's five years of ineptitude.

[nihilz]

1 hour ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said:

 

Well, that's kind of my point. A strong organization like Nashville can trade Seth Jones for Ryan Johansen and *still* have four outstanding defencemen. Their excellence in developing blueliners meant they had surplus strength which they could barter off to fill the hole at C. That trade is a case study in disproving Bergevin's repeated claim that it's 'too tough' to get a C. It's tough, but not impossible, IF you have areas of strength from which to deal. But that requires ace drafting and development. Instead the Habs are in a situation where we may have to trade an elite scoring W to get an elite C, a move that would bolster the C position but leave a huge hole in the top 6; basically, moving holes around rather than filling them. We are reaping the consequences of Bergevin's five years of ineptitude.

 

Well, I understand. But icing a competitive that makes the playoffs and picks in the 20's and having strong pipeline is a tough gig. I think the Habs have all the assets they need right now to stay relevant. They don't have anything in the works, beyond Sergachev, that is a major piece. But, they don't need it. We could argue that MB never made 'the move'. But I wouldn't be happy with Duchene as an overachieving glorified really good 2nd line center for Sergachev. Koivu was that his whole career filling C1. I hate that McDonagh got lost in a similar move, I'd rather have our future "stud" dman.  But we are at a point where the entry draft will have alot of player on the move. MB HAS to strike and bring in at least one UFA or RFA center. The #1 center has to be an overpay with Pacioretty as the chip. Its the only way the organization stays balanced. Or Galchenyuk is sent for a reliable center. There are very few hands to be played. And everyone see's the draw. Bergy is on his last thread with me as well. At least, no hasty moves were made involving the assets that they do have to make that move. Cause essentially, Bergy has one bullet and needs a bullseye, or the tailspin will ensue. 

[The Chicoutimi Cucumber]

21 minutes ago, nihilz said:

 

Well, I understand. But icing a competitive that makes the playoffs and picks in the 20's and having strong pipeline is a tough gig. I think the Habs have all the assets they need right now to stay relevant. They don't have anything in the works, beyond Sergachev, that is a major piece. But, they don't need it. We could argue that MB never made 'the move'. But I wouldn't be happy with Duchene as an overachieving glorified really good 2nd line center for Sergachev. Koivu was that his whole career filling C1. I hate that McDonagh got lost in a similar move, I'd rather have our future "stud" dman.  But we are at a point where the entry draft will have alot of player on the move. MB HAS to strike and bring in at least one UFA or RFA center. The #1 center has to be an overpay with Pacioretty as the chip. Its the only way the organization stays balanced. Or Galchenyuk is sent for a reliable center. There are very few hands to be played. And everyone see's the draw. Bergy is on his last thread with me as well. At least, no hasty moves were made involving the assets that they do have to make that move. Cause essentially, Bergy has one bullet and needs a bullseye, or the tailspin will ensue. 

 

Nashville had not generally drafted high. They're much like the Habs in that respect. Yet they bagged Ellis at 11th overall, Josi at 38th, and Ehklom at 102 in addition to Jones at #4. I understand that it's 'tough' to develop high-end talent when you're generally not drafting in the top 10, but Nashville shows it to be quite possible. The difference is simply that that organization has risen to the challenge, and the Habs haven't.

 

I'll admit, this is not all Bergevin's fault, since the inept drafting and development goes back to '08 at least. But nothing Bergevin has done offers much confidence that the team is close to elite in drafting and development. Instead he keeps his buddy Lefebvre in charge of the pipeline despite poor results. 

 

I'm curious whether MB's job interview with Molson and Savard sounded anything like his press conferences. 'Well, guys, I'd like to build a contender. But, you know, upgrading your core is tough. What I'll do instead is fiddle with depth pieces and make lateral moves.'

 

I'm just sick of these excuses. It CAN be done - just not by mediocrities like him.

[Machine of Loving Grace]

Nashville recent drafting looks like Montreal drafting when Timmins first came in.

 

2014: Fiala and Arvidsson

2013: Jones and Saros (Jones for Johansen)

2012: Aberg, Sissons, Vesey (Vesey went to New York, Forsberg for Erat)

2011: fail year

2010: Watson and Bitetto

2009: Ellis, Smith, Ekholm

2008: Wilson, Josi

 

Two roster players per draft on average from 08-14. That's why Nashville looks so good right now.

[The Chicoutimi Cucumber]

2 hours ago, Machine of Loving Grace said:

Nashville recent drafting looks like Montreal drafting when Timmins first came in.

 

2014: Fiala and Arvidsson

2013: Jones and Saros (Jones for Johansen)

2012: Aberg, Sissons, Vesey (Vesey went to New York, Forsberg for Erat)

2011: fail year

2010: Watson and Bitetto

2009: Ellis, Smith, Ekholm

2008: Wilson, Josi

 

Two roster players per draft on average from 08-14. That's why Nashville looks so good right now.

 

Well, exactly. And the Preds have generally been a competitive team over that span. They didn't need a tank job to do it - and neither should the Habs, except that our GM is inept.