Permanent Trade Proposal Thread

[alfredoh2009]

Just now, tomh009 said:

Would the Oilers really give up Lavoie and a first for (the current version of) Chiarot, even if we retain salary?  Lavoie could be a solid bottom-six C, though.

 

And why do we give up Wideman for Benning, who is also a UFA at the end of the year? I don't see what we gain with this trade.

the Wideman trade is to get an extra draft pick. I do not think he is in the Habs plans with Clague and Niku on the team (they are better) and with some D prospects that may surprise next season (Norlinder, Harris)

 

The Oilers need help on D and Chiarot should fetch a king's ransom

[alfredoh2009]

1 minute ago, Commandant said:

Why are we taking on all that money on Martinez, who is old and doesn't fit a rebuild... to get a third rounder???

yes, I think the Habs would be trading for Martinez's LTIR room and a third in exchange of a third instead of loosing Kulak for nothing

[dlbalr]

1 hour ago, alfredoh2009 said:

Then here are my four (4) "rebuilding" trades for the Habs to get:

   * another 1st round draft pick

   * another 2nd round pick

   * two other 3rd round pick

   * a forward prospect

 

#1

To Edmonton: Ben Chiarot (LD $3.5M/1y) + SalaryCap relief to make it work for the Oilers

To Montreal: Raphaël Lavoie & 1st2022

=>Edmonton solidifies cup chances

 

#2

To New York Rangers: Tyler Toffoli (RW $4.25/3yr)

To Montreal: Filip Chytil (LC $2.3M/2yr) + 2nd2022

=> Rangers improve core forward group, make room for center prospects

 

#3

To Nashville: Wideman

To Montreal: Benning

=> Predators improve over Benning at the same cap hit

 

#4

To Las Vegas: Kulak (LD $1.85M/1yr) + cap relief to make it work for the Knights

To Montreal: Martinez(LD $5.25M/3yr) + 3nd2022

=> Vegas get a depth LD, cap room for when Eichel is ready to play and get rid of an aging D on a bad contract

=> Alec Martinez can use Weber's spot, or (more likely) retire a Hab on LTIR. If he can play, he can be a #4D

 

#1 - Holland has already said his 1st and top prospects are off the table.

 

#2 - I like the idea of using Toffoli to add a young C but Chytil has spent a fair bit of time on the wing and is more of a third liner than a top-six prospect now.

 

#3 - Montreal actually adds $250,000 here, not sure what the point is for the Habs though - do you think Benning would yield a better return in a trade than Wideman?  Or was there supposed to be a draft pick in that proposal as well?

 

#4 - Martinez is a huge part of Vegas' defence for the long haul.  They're probably going to move Reilly Smith to get cap-compliant this season and then wait for the summer when there's more flexibility to make a bigger deal.  He also has a 16-team no-trade list and there's a good chance the Habs are on there.

[Commandant]

24 minutes ago, alfredoh2009 said:

yes, I think the Habs would be trading for Martinez's LTIR room and a third in exchange of a third instead of loosing Kulak for nothing

 

Even if this was career ending (which it isn't), That much money is worth way more than a third. 

 

 

[Habs Fan in Edmonton]

1 hour ago, Commandant said:

 

Even if this was career ending (which it isn't), That much money is worth way more than a third. 

 

 

 

No doubt, taking that kind of cap hit off somebody's hands is worth way way more than a late 3rd round pick. 

[Habs44]

To begin on a general note I would have this approach as the new gm if I were rebuilding the Habs.

 

I would prioritize acquiring young 19 and 20 year olds to accelerate the rebuild. 

The first picks that will be available will be by playoff bound teams so the first picks will be low first round picks but not against having a few though. Some teams won't have desireable young drafted players available

I think we can get  very good returns for our players if we take on salary

Petry and Gallagher at 4.5 m a year become very good contracts to digest

Price this year or the next at 5.5 m is also a good contract to digest.

This would mean that we would carry 10 million on our books for the next 4 years but since we are rebuilding we won t have many big contracts to carry and as we go the cap will grow again

Toffol's contract is very tradeable this year or the next for a good return

Chariot no salary issue for trading

Lekkonen is a hard worker so a good example and a restricted free agent, so no rush to trade him unless we get a really good offer  like the equivalent of a second round pick and a third

We can probably get something for Kulak and Perreault. I would aim for picks the following years.

I would try to get  a 2023 or 24  first pick from a team trying to make the play-off and that I think is on the way down

Now let the trading game begin....

 

 

[Habs Fan in Edmonton]

1 hour ago, Habs44 said:

To begin on a general note I would have this approach as the new gm if I were rebuilding the Habs.

 

I would prioritize acquiring young 19 and 20 year olds to accelerate the rebuild. 

The first picks that will be available will be by playoff bound teams so the first picks will be low first round picks but not against having a few though. Some teams won't have desireable young drafted players available

I think we can get  very good returns for our players if we take on salary

Petry and Gallagher at 4.5 m a year become very good contracts to digest

Price this year or the next at 5.5 m is also a good contract to digest.

This would mean that we would carry 10 million on our books for the next 4 years but since we are rebuilding we won t have many big contracts to carry and as we go the cap will grow again

Toffol's contract is very tradeable this year or the next for a good return

Chariot no salary issue for trading

Lekkonen is a hard worker so a good example and a restricted free agent, so no rush to trade him unless we get a really good offer  like the equivalent of a second round pick and a third

We can probably get something for Kulak and Perreault. I would aim for picks the following years.

I would try to get  a 2023 or 24  first pick from a team trying to make the play-off and that I think is on the way down

Now let the trading game begin....

 

 

 

I am certainly not against taking on some salary if it allows us to acquire additional good young prospects and picks as we would likely be able to afford it if we have a number of young players on ELC's as you pointed out.  We will likely have to take on some salary to get a good return back for some of these players.  Taking a chunk of Petry's salary for 3 years would be reasonable if the return was worth it.  However taking on 5 years of Gallagher's might be a little steep.  I think Brendan is here for a while. 

 

I definitely think the return for Toffoli can be very decent as he can be a big help for a contender, agree his contract is very tradeable. Chariot needs to stay healthy as he is our best bargaining chip this year. I also agree about Lehkonen, one of my favourite Habs because of his work ethic and defensive awareness, no need to trade him unless they get an offer they can't say no to. I think a lot of teams value (especially contending teams) what he brings. It should get very interesting here as we get closer to the trading deadline.  One thing we know for sure. We will be sellers. Just a question of who and what we get back. 

[dlbalr]

9 hours ago, Habs44 said:

Price this year or the next at 5.5 m is also a good contract to digest.

 

That's not an option though.  If you retain on a player, it's for the entire remainder of the contract - they can't just pick this year or next.  And if you're proposing retaining 50% on Petry and Gallagher as well, that's a huge amount of dead cap money on the books.

[Habs Fan in Edmonton]

1 hour ago, dlbalr said:

 

That's not an option though.  If you retain on a player, it's for the entire remainder of the contract - they can't just pick this year or next.  And if you're proposing retaining 50% on Petry and Gallagher as well, that's a huge amount of dead cap money on the books.

 

I think he was proposing retaining about 1.75 - 2.0M per year for Gallagher/Petry  (25-30%) so the other team was paying 4.5M/year, that's how I understood it.  We would have to retain for the life of the contract which for Gallagher is 5 years, Petry more reasonable at 3.

[Habsfan89]

If this isn't a rebuild just a year from hell and we plan on contending.  if we call Arizona and asked about CHYCHRUN and Arizona wanted Romanov and Caufield in return would you do it?

 

Keep in mind next year would could have Wright and Chychrun in the lineup on a healthy team🤔

[tomh009]

I think the odds on the Habs being able to contend next year are very, very long. The odds were long last year, and we lost Weber (for nothing) and let Danault walk.

[Commandant]

I'm not trading two young players of Romanov and Caufield's caliber at the start of a rebuild.

[Habs Fan in Edmonton]

24 minutes ago, Habsfan89 said:

If this isn't a rebuild just a year from hell and we plan on contending.  if we call Arizona and asked about CHYCHRUN and Arizona wanted Romanov and Caufield in return would you do it?

 

Keep in mind next year would could have Wright and Chychrun in the lineup on a healthy team🤔

 

That's an interesting proposal but I would say no. I still think Caulfield will be a 30-35 goal scorer in this league on a regular basis and Romanov has made good strides this year and they are still very young. Arizona is trying to sell high (don't blame them for trying) based on 1 excellent year Chychrun had last year. 

[Habsfan89]

15 minutes ago, Commandant said:

I'm not trading two young players of Romanov and Caufield's caliber at the start of a rebuild.

This is a question if we aren't going to rebuild.  Not if we're going to rebuild. Of course if we're going to rebuild we don't look at trying to trade for a guy like Chychrun .

 

Just saying what if management just look at this as a wash year and aren't thinking of a rebuild.

[GHT120]

26 minutes ago, Habsfan89 said:

This is a question if we aren't going to rebuild.  Not if we're going to rebuild. Of course if we're going to rebuild we don't look at trying to trade for a guy like Chychrun .

 

Just saying what if management just look at this as a wash year and aren't thinking of a rebuild.

Fair point ... but with Weber gone, Price a HUGE question mark going forward, Chiarot almost certainly leaving (be it by trade or as a UFA) and Petry a question mark (smaller than Price but still a question mark), I certainly hope they don't delude themselves and return to the "pray to make the playoffs and see what happens" philosophy of the last almost three decades (slight hyperbole for emphasis).

[dlbalr]

11 hours ago, Habs Fan in Edmonton said:

I think he was proposing retaining about 1.75 - 2.0M per year for Gallagher/Petry  (25-30%) so the other team was paying 4.5M/year, that's how I understood it.  We would have to retain for the life of the contract which for Gallagher is 5 years, Petry more reasonable at 3.

 

You're right, I did misread that.  Even with that though, that retention on those two plus Price at a fairly high retention percentage is a lot of dead cap money on the books and also stops them from retaining salary on anyone else for three years.  There's a reason the number of players on long-term contracts that have had cap retention since retention was instituted can be counted on one hand.

[Habs Fan in Edmonton]

The wheels are really falling off in Edmonton, 6-0 tonight. Obviously Price is out of the picture starting rehab over but you would think some combination of Allen/Chiarot/Toffoli would be really useful for the Oilers right now.  The Habs would have to take back some contract but the Oilers need to do something. 

[DON]

9 hours ago, Habs Fan in Edmonton said:

The wheels are really falling off in Edmonton, 6-0 tonight. Obviously Price is out of the picture starting rehab over but you would think some combination of Allen/Chiarot/Toffoli would be really useful for the Oilers right now.  The Habs would have to take back some contract but the Oilers need to do something. 

Allen is now out for 8 weeks.

[GHT120]

1 hour ago, DON said:

Allen is now out for 8 weeks.

Good for draft lottery purposes, bad for trade value.

[Commandant]

6 minutes ago, GHT120 said:

Good for draft lottery purposes, bad for trade value.

 

We can't trade allen now.

 

However, I have an alternate option. 

 

Oilers Trade Mikko Koskinen (cap dump) plus a draft pick to Montreal.  We throw in some Laval player we don't care to resign after this season (just to not add to our 50 contracts), perhaps Baddock or Teasdale

 

In this way, we can let Primeau develop in the minors and run a Koskinen/Montembault tandem while Allen and Price are allowed to fully recover from long-term injuries. 

 

The oilers get the cap relief they need to make their other trades for a goalie and perhaps another piece.

[tomh009]

I'd be up for that -- and really have Koskinen be Montembeault's backup (I want to see him play more). Primeau needs to be playing, and he's better off doing that in Laval.

 

But Koskinen has an NTC, would he waive that for Montreal? Even if it's only for a few months? Theoretically, he might have a (small but non-zero) chance to get his name on the Cup in Edmonton whereas that's not happening with the Habs.

 

As for Allen, if Montembeault keeps up his recent play, Allen could be a trade option come the summer.

[Commandant]

For Koskinen, he'd get the chance to play some games... where in Edmonton, if they trade for a goalie, he'd be buried behind new goalie and mike smith.  It would give him the opportunity to up his value for this summer when he's a UFA. 

 

Would he want that, or to stay in Edmonton?  I don't know the answer to it, but thats the advantage of waiving the NTC. 

 

Its also a limited NTC (15-team list per capfriendly) so thats even assuming we are on his list. 

[Habsfan89]

1 hour ago, Commandant said:

 

We can't trade allen now.

 

However, I have an alternate option. 

 

Oilers Trade Mikko Koskinen (cap dump) plus a draft pick to Montreal.  We throw in some Laval player we don't care to resign after this season (just to not add to our 50 contracts), perhaps Baddock or Teasdale

 

In this way, we can let Primeau develop in the minors and run a Koskinen/Montembault tandem while Allen and Price are allowed to fully recover from long-term injuries. 

 

The oilers get the cap relief they need to make their other trades for a goalie and perhaps another piece.

I wouldn't make the trade, at this point we don't need wins or points so play the younger guys and showcase them this year. Maybe it would help make some trades easier to make if some younger guys not in our plans step up and play well their trade value could increase. 

[dlbalr]

1 hour ago, Commandant said:

However, I have an alternate option. 

 

Oilers Trade Mikko Koskinen (cap dump) plus a draft pick to Montreal.  We throw in some Laval player we don't care to resign after this season (just to not add to our 50 contracts), perhaps Baddock or Teasdale

 

In this way, we can let Primeau develop in the minors and run a Koskinen/Montembault tandem while Allen and Price are allowed to fully recover from long-term injuries. 

 

The oilers get the cap relief they need to make their other trades for a goalie and perhaps another piece.

 

The only way this works for Montreal is if they know Price is for sure not coming back this season.  Otherwise, they may not be able to open up enough cap room to activate him (they probably have to go with a 21-man roster if everyone aside from Weber were to be healthy at some point).  I know others will be moved but if there's retention on those players, they may not be able to free up enough to cover Koskinen's salary outright.  If Price wants to play (or a team wants him to play to see if he has recovered), I'd hate for something like this to prevent it from happening.  But it's a creative idea though that I like.  If Price gets ruled out for the year, this is the type of move they should be looking at.

 

7 minutes ago, Habsfan89 said:

I wouldn't make the trade, at this point we don't need wins or points so play the younger guys and showcase them this year. Maybe it would help make some trades easier to make if some younger guys not in our plans step up and play well their trade value could increase. 

 

It's not about getting points and wins - Koskinen isn't exactly an NHL-calibre goalie at the moment and playing him would actually increase Montreal's chances of losing.  The purpose to the deal is to add the draft pick that comes as the sweetener to take Koskinen's contract.  Primeau isn't NHL-ready and continuing to run him out there would be more detrimental to his development than beneficial.  He needs to play a lot of games and the spot for that to happen is in Laval, not Montreal.

[alfredoh2009]

1 hour ago, Commandant said:

 

We can't trade allen now.

 

However, I have an alternate option. 

 

Oilers Trade Mikko Koskinen (cap dump) plus a draft pick to Montreal.  We throw in some Laval player we don't care to resign after this season (just to not add to our 50 contracts), perhaps Baddock or Teasdale

 

In this way, we can let Primeau develop in the minors and run a Koskinen/Montembault tandem while Allen and Price are allowed to fully recover from long-term injuries. 

 

The oilers get the cap relief they need to make their other trades for a goalie and perhaps another piece.

 

I like that, when Price returns he Koskinen can be waived to avoid loosing Montembault. Or Montee can stay in the taxi squad if it is still around.