dlbalr Posted February 12, 2022 Author Share Posted February 12, 2022 1 hour ago, Dalhabs said: About the chychrun rumors... How much better would we be next year with him and shane wright (if we win the lottery) on the team + the return of Price and Edmundson? Would it be worth trading next years 1st rounder for Chychrun? It's not really a rumour when it comes to Montreal. There's an article I linked the other day but it was more of a hypothetical than anything else. I don't think it makes much sense at all to go after Chychrun, especially knowing Arizona's asking price. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alfredoh2009 Posted February 16, 2022 Share Posted February 16, 2022 (edited) seems like Chiarot is in the mire of STL, FLA and TOR. None have room under the cap, so Habs would be getting a significant contract back. Based on this: STL/MTL (changing to Chiarot for Perron and a 1st) from Montreal: Chiarot ($3.5M) and Armia ($3.4M) from St-Louis: 1st round pick 2022, Perron ($4.0M) and Sundqvist($2.75) = Perron seems like the only big contract to make sense to move for STL. Armia goes the to STL to patch the hole; to make room for Armia the 4th line RW (Sundqvist) probably comes the other way. STL gets two players who seem to do well in the playoffs and an upgrade on D. Perron can go unsigned this summer and Sundqvist seems like a better option on the Habs 4th line for a couple of years than = (Armia + Paquette + Dauphin). FLA/MTL Florida doesn't have 1st in 2022, but can move Montour 1 for 1. IMHO, Nutivaara would be a better return with next year's pick if only because he is younger. TOR... the only trade I can see is involving TJ Brodie and this forum has already shot down my proposal. Edited February 16, 2022 by alfredoh2009 updated the STL trade, Sundqvist is probably better than I thought) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hockeyrealist Posted February 16, 2022 Share Posted February 16, 2022 On 2/12/2022 at 2:20 PM, dlbalr said: It's not really a rumour when it comes to Montreal. There's an article I linked the other day but it was more of a hypothetical than anything else. I don't think it makes much sense at all to go after Chychrun, especially knowing Arizona's asking price. Glad to heat that as I think he is very over rated. Considering where he plays I have seen quite a few games over the years and especially this season since he has been linked to moves. He is soft in his own zone and reminds me of Dvorak as in people say he is good but on a bad team, but I think he looks good because he is on a bad team. Not someone you rebuild with/around. We need winners if they are vets. What kind of culture would he bring with him from the dessert.? very glad to hear this isn’t likely to happen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commandant Posted February 16, 2022 Share Posted February 16, 2022 Why take contracts back? Why not just retain 50% of Chiarot's contract? This is ideal as it expires this summer and you don't get any long term commitment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alfredoh2009 Posted February 16, 2022 Share Posted February 16, 2022 5 minutes ago, Commandant said: Why take contracts back? Why not just retain 50% of Chiarot's contract? This is ideal as it expires this summer and you don't get any long term commitment. Good point ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GHT120 Posted February 16, 2022 Share Posted February 16, 2022 2 hours ago, Commandant said: Why take contracts back? Why not just retain 50% of Chiarot's contract? This is ideal as it expires this summer and you don't get any long term commitment. Or perhaps 50% and an up to $1.75M expiring contract if needed ... or a YOUNG $1.75M player with a year or more remaining for whom the contract represents good value (but as part of the AAV balancing, not the actual return ... unless the player is really good) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dlbalr Posted February 16, 2022 Author Share Posted February 16, 2022 10 hours ago, alfredoh2009 said: FLA/MTL Florida doesn't have 1st in 2022, but can move Montour 1 for 1. IMHO, Nutivaara would be a better return with next year's pick if only because he is younger. TOR... the only trade I can see is involving TJ Brodie and this forum has already shot down my proposal. Montour 1 for 1 doesn't make a lot of sense for the Habs though, Chiarot has more trade value. Nutivaara makes a bit more sense to match money although he's on LTIR at the moment. Don't discount Frank Vatrano as a salary offset, he has been scratched before and has a limited role. Toronto - Justin Holl and Travis Dermott are both known to be available - one of them with Chiarot at 50% retention makes the money fit. Then it'd just be what other future asset (pick/prospect) would be involved. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commandant Posted February 17, 2022 Share Posted February 17, 2022 Lehner has a serious injury and Vegas doesnt have much cap.space. Can allen get healthy before the deadline? What can we get from vegas for him? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alfredoh2009 Posted February 17, 2022 Share Posted February 17, 2022 modifying my own trade proposal, based on the feedback: To STL: Chiarot (pending UFA $3.5M), Armia ($3.4M until 2025) 50% salary retained on both To MTL: 1st round in 2022, Klim Kostin ($0.863M) and David Perron (pending UFA $4M) Cap works, Armia can fill in for Perron in STL. Kostin is a great return on Chiarot when paired with the 1st round pick Approved! Ship it! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomh009 Posted February 17, 2022 Share Posted February 17, 2022 41 minutes ago, alfredoh2009 said: modifying my own trade proposal, based on the feedback: To STL: Chiarot (pending UFA $3.5M), Armia ($3.4M until 2025) 50% salary retained on both To MTL: 1st round in 2022, Klim Kostin ($0.863M) and David Perron (pending UFA $4M) Cap works, Armia can fill in for Perron in STL. Kostin is a great return on Chiarot when paired with the 1st round pick Approved! Ship it! Don't want to retain salary on two players as that may constrain us later. Maybe we can retain 90% of Chiarot? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Habs Fan in Edmonton Posted February 17, 2022 Share Posted February 17, 2022 4 minutes ago, tomh009 said: Don't want to retain salary on two players as that may constrain us later. Maybe we can retain 90% of Chiarot? Good point, better to retain more on an expiring contact if need be. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GHT120 Posted February 17, 2022 Share Posted February 17, 2022 9 minutes ago, tomh009 said: Don't want to retain salary on two players as that may constrain us later. Maybe we can retain 90% of Chiarot? 3 minutes ago, Habs Fan in Edmonton said: Good point, better to retain more on an expiring contact if need be. 50% is the maximum allowed retention. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Habs Fan in Edmonton Posted February 17, 2022 Share Posted February 17, 2022 2 minutes ago, GHT120 said: 50% is the maximum allowed retention. Thanks for the clarification, I guess that idea was good in theory. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Chicoutimi Cucumber Posted February 17, 2022 Share Posted February 17, 2022 In terms of trading Allen, is that even wise? We don’t know with certainty that Carey Price will play again. Even if he does, we don’t know how durable or effective he will be. And even before this latest injury, Price-Montembault would have been a reversion to the terrible pattern of the pre-Allen era, where Price has to play 65 games because the other guy can’t be trusted. Price is too old and too broken-down to be able to do that. Folks will say “who cares? It’s a rebuild.” But we also want our young players to develop confidence and the belief that their team can compete. Sabotage a team with bad goaltending and you risk undermining the “winning culture” that Hugh-Gort are trying to build. I’d suggests that we want a configuration in net that is at least average. I’m not sure Carey Price and a C-grade goalie can do that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Habs Fan in Edmonton Posted February 17, 2022 Share Posted February 17, 2022 2 minutes ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said: In terms of trading Allen, is that even wise? We don’t know with certainty that Carey Price will play again. Even if he does, we don’t know how durable or effective he will be. And even before this latest injury, Price-Montembault would have been a reversion to the terrible pattern of the pre-Allen era, where Price has to play 65 games because the other guy can’t be trusted. Price is too old and too broken-down to be able to do that. Folks will say “who cares? It’s a rebuild.” But we also want our young players to develop confidence and the belief that their team can compete. Sabotage a team with bad goaltending and you risk undermining the “winning culture” that Hugh-Gort are trying to build. I’d suggests that we want a configuration in net that is at least average. I’m not sure Carey Price and a C-grade goalie can do that. That's a fair point. I guess it would depend on the return you could get for Allen. Assuming he gets healthy the Habs could get a pretty good return especially considering he has 1 more year at a very good cap hit. The Habs should have the cap space in the off season to sign a decent back up if need be. Of course their cap space would depend on other moves they might make. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GHT120 Posted February 17, 2022 Share Posted February 17, 2022 54 minutes ago, alfredoh2009 said: modifying my own trade proposal, based on the feedback: To STL: Chiarot (pending UFA $3.5M), Armia ($3.4M until 2025) 50% salary retained on both To MTL: 1st round in 2022, Klim Kostin ($0.863M) and David Perron (pending UFA $4M) Cap works, Armia can fill in for Perron in STL. Kostin is a great return on Chiarot when paired with the 1st round pick Approved! Ship it! Based on his NA stats, Klostin strikes me as Evans/Poehling-ish ... not much of a sweetener in addition to the first rounder Perron would be a good piece as I expect he could be flipped at the deadline, especially if salary was retained Don't know that I would want the Habs to use one of three salary retention slots for this trade deadline and the next three seasons on Armia I wonder if STL would like to move Scandella (3.275) rather the Habs than retaining salary on Armia ... would be even better cap-wise for the Blues than Habs retaining $1.7 on Armia ... Marco is 6th in 5-on-5 TOI on Blues blueline ... his only real role seems to be on the PK, he is the top TOI D (but this season Chiarot could fill that role for STL) ... MS would give the Habs a popular, local, veteran LHD who would free up Edmundson for a trade (likely after the season) ... JE should have good value. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GHT120 Posted February 17, 2022 Share Posted February 17, 2022 15 minutes ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said: In terms of trading Allen, is that even wise? We don’t know with certainty that Carey Price will play again. Even if he does, we don’t know how durable or effective he will be. And even before this latest injury, Price-Montembault would have been a reversion to the terrible pattern of the pre-Allen era, where Price has to play 65 games because the other guy can’t be trusted. Price is too old and too broken-down to be able to do that. Folks will say “who cares? It’s a rebuild.” But we also want our young players to develop confidence and the belief that their team can compete. Sabotage a team with bad goaltending and you risk undermining the “winning culture” that Hugh-Gort are trying to build. I’d suggests that we want a configuration in net that is at least average. I’m not sure Carey Price and a C-grade goalie can do that. The counterbalance to that is that the Habs only have him for one more season ... Jake, Frederik Andersen and Semyon Varlamov are likely the top UFA goalies summer after next and Allen will be the youngest of the three (32 vs 33 vs 35) ... no guarantee they will be able to keep him around ... but could make more sense to look at him as 2023 deadline trade bait. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomh009 Posted February 17, 2022 Share Posted February 17, 2022 28 minutes ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said: In terms of trading Allen, is that even wise? We don’t know with certainty that Carey Price will play again. Even if he does, we don’t know how durable or effective he will be. And even before this latest injury, Price-Montembault would have been a reversion to the terrible pattern of the pre-Allen era, where Price has to play 65 games because the other guy can’t be trusted. Price is too old and too broken-down to be able to do that. I do think that Montembeault, with some improvement in the D corps, can be significantly better than, say, Niemi. He really should be able to handle 25-30 games. There will be some bad games but we get those from Price, too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alfredoh2009 Posted February 17, 2022 Share Posted February 17, 2022 55 minutes ago, Habs Fan in Edmonton said: Good point, better to retain more on an expiring contact if need be. That is the idea, it helps that the 50% on both clears room to take both Armia and Chiarot this year it sucks in that the Habs will need to cover for 50% or Armia’s salary for 2 years but with Alzner coming off the books, the cap room is there for the Habs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GHT120 Posted February 17, 2022 Share Posted February 17, 2022 12 minutes ago, alfredoh2009 said: ... but with Alzner coming off the books, the cap room is there for the Habs Alzner's buyout drops from $1,958,333 to $833,333 for the next two seasons, but it is still there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dlbalr Posted February 17, 2022 Author Share Posted February 17, 2022 2 hours ago, alfredoh2009 said: modifying my own trade proposal, based on the feedback: To STL: Chiarot (pending UFA $3.5M), Armia ($3.4M until 2025) 50% salary retained on both To MTL: 1st round in 2022, Klim Kostin ($0.863M) and David Perron (pending UFA $4M) Cap works, Armia can fill in for Perron in STL. Kostin is a great return on Chiarot when paired with the 1st round pick Approved! Ship it! I don't think St. Louis touches this. They're moving a top-six forward in the trade which is the exact opposite of what a playoff-bound team should be wanting to do. If Chiarot is worth a first as some suggest (I'm in the not convinced group), then 50% retained on Armia is worth Perron and Kostin? I know you have Perron there as salary ballast but that's not a player they're going to want to move as it would hurt their team considerably. 1 hour ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said: In terms of trading Allen, is that even wise? We don’t know with certainty that Carey Price will play again. Even if he does, we don’t know how durable or effective he will be. And even before this latest injury, Price-Montembault would have been a reversion to the terrible pattern of the pre-Allen era, where Price has to play 65 games because the other guy can’t be trusted. Price is too old and too broken-down to be able to do that. Folks will say “who cares? It’s a rebuild.” But we also want our young players to develop confidence and the belief that their team can compete. Sabotage a team with bad goaltending and you risk undermining the “winning culture” that Hugh-Gort are trying to build. I’d suggests that we want a configuration in net that is at least average. I’m not sure Carey Price and a C-grade goalie can do that. If they were to move Allen, they'd have enough cap space to try to jump into the UFA market for another veteran if they needed to. While Montreal may not be appealing for some, there are enough serviceable veteran backups out there that they wouldn't be putting Price into a 65-game situation, one that I agree, he won't be able to handle. Also, if Allen was to be moved to Vegas, I have to think Laurent Brossoit would be coming back for money reasons and he's signed for another year. 31 minutes ago, alfredoh2009 said: That is the idea, it helps that the 50% on both clears room to take both Armia and Chiarot this year it sucks in that the Habs will need to cover for 50% or Armia’s salary for 2 years but with Alzner coming off the books, the cap room is there for the Habs Armia has three years left on his deal after this one, not two. Do they want to use a retention slot on a non-core player for that long? I don't think that'd be a great use of it. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alfredoh2009 Posted February 17, 2022 Share Posted February 17, 2022 ... I thought we could use the slush fund like when Chrétien bought all those golf balls... but I digress Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Habsfan89 Posted February 17, 2022 Share Posted February 17, 2022 I think Detroit would be the best trading partner with us in a trade for Petry. It's his home town, they got 10mil in cap space so we wouldn't have to take back any of his salary cap, plus they got 4 ufa's on d so they would need a puck mover like Petry that's under contract. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alfredoh2009 Posted February 17, 2022 Share Posted February 17, 2022 11 minutes ago, Habsfan89 said: I think Detroit would be the best trading partner with us in a trade for Petry. It's his home town, they got 10mil in cap space so we wouldn't have to take back any of his salary cap, plus they got 4 ufa's on d so they would need a puck mover like Petry that's under contract. For some reason I believe his family prefers Arizona, I remember his family going to join him there when the team visited ?! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Habsfan89 Posted February 17, 2022 Share Posted February 17, 2022 6 minutes ago, alfredoh2009 said: For some reason I believe his family prefers Arizona, I remember his family going to join him there when the team visited ?! They have cap space too but not sure they would add him since they're in a 20 year rebuild plan 😂😹😹 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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