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Permanent Trade Proposal Thread


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DON, absolutely, Kaberle is an NHL player, whereas Darche could be playing in Europe next season. The reason why the rest of the league allegedly laughed at Gauthier for acquiring him is his cap hit. When you factor in the big pay raises some of our young core players are due to receive. Feel free to dismiss what others say, I often do myself. This is a trade proposal thread, and according to these insiders, any trade proposal involving Kaberle is a waste of time, because nobody is interested. If that's true, it works out well for you, because you like the player anyway. My personal opinion? I would have preferred to keep Spacek and his expiring contract, and have that money to spend this summer. I'm not all that thrilled with his play, and the occasional point he chips in. I suspect you DON have a harder shot that Kaberle does!

That's my feeling as well. although, i think Spacek could have also netted a 4th round pick - possible even a 3rd at the deadline (depending on how desperate some GM gets for defensive depth). I'd rather have the cap space and pick then Kaberle.

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Kaberle, 4.5m, good for passing out the the zone, in offensive zone and on the PP. Don't count on him defensively or you'll regret it.

Markov, 5m, good for passing out the the zone, in offensive zone and on the PP. Trustworthy defensively, can play against top forwards in the league and succeed defensively. May never regain his form.

In the right situation Kaberle is a great defenseman. The situation we're in is not that situation. On the ice last night we had 1 trustworthy defenseman. Most teams have 3 minimum, good teams have at least 4. Last night we had 3 defensemen that are weak defenders. Most team have 1 or none.

Everyone is pointing fingers at Kaberle and saying he sucks because he needs to do more than put points on the board. He is the most veteran defenseman on the ice for us right now and isn't acting like it. As a veteran he should be stepping up.

I am not sure what you mean by stepping up? He assisted on the Habs only goal and dont even know if he was on for any against was he?

and not everyone is pointing fingers, cause i am not, but yes, it seems most are for some reason, not stepping up is a bit vague? And that is my point many seem to say he sucks, but dont or cant say why exactly why?

Even Markov is not super defensively; but most simply look at his point production and say he is super, but Markov dosent hit, clear front of net, fight, give speechs and costs $1.5m/year more. Which i am happy he is signed for.

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Yes, the Habs need two more top 4 defencemen, and yes Kaberle is a 3rd pairing guy 5 on 5.

However none of that makes him overpaid if he's still putting up 45-50 pts from your third pairing.

His contract is fair for his production, and does not limit our flexibility going forward or our ability to re-sign any players.  

The only contract that is a true albatross is Gomez?  Why?  Because Gomez's level of play this season could easily be replicated and surpassed by a guy like Dominic Moore at a heck of a lot cheaper, and he is a massive overpay.  Kaberle for his production is not the same level of massive overpay. Get rid of Gomez in whatever way necessary and you have the money necessary to make the moves that need to be made this summer (ie re-sign Price, Subban, pick up an additional D, Replace Moen and AK, get a stop gap C if your draft pick isn't ready, etc...).

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I am not sure what you mean by stepping up? He assisted on the Habs only goal and dont even know if he was on for any against was he?

and not everyone is pointing fingers, cause i am not, but yes, it seems most are for some reason, not stepping up is a bit vague? And that is my point many seem to say he sucks, but dont or cant say why exactly why?

Even Markov is not super defensively; but most simply look at his point production and say he is super, but Markov dosent hit, clear front of net, fight, give speechs and costs $1.5m/year more. Which i am happy he is signed for.

He needs to step up his complete game, not his point production. He has to be good both ends of the ice. Your mentality of he's ok because he assisted on the only goal is the same mentality of Gauthier this season defensively. We had Weber, decent offensively, weak defensively. Gauthier picked up Campoli, decent offensively, weak defensively. Then he picks up Kaberle, good offensively, weak defensively. All this from thinking we need production and puck moving on the back end, while disregarding defense. It's fine and dandy to have players that can move the puck out of the zone, but no point if when it enters against these defensemen, it ends up in our net.

Also, everybody that has been saying Kaberle sucks is for 2 reasons, usually together. His contract (4m for 3 more years), and his uselessness defensively. He has 17 pts and is -5 with us. This means 5-on-5 he's been on the ice for 5 more goals against than for. The +/- doesn't tell the whole story. From watching the games, it's his weak play on the puck carrier that creates quality chances for the other team. For example; the game against Buffalo firday, Ennis scored from a pass from behind the net. That pass went right through Kaberle's legs and to the slot, to the player that Kaberle was supposed to be covering. Instead, Kaberle was standing at the side of the net, stick off the ice, admiring everybody.

@ 3:15 to see what I'm talking about.
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The biggest complaint about Kaberle continues to be his defensive deficiencies and his cap hit.

Its as if people expect a Norris Contender for 4.25 million.

Cause thats what a 50+ point defenceman with good defensive play is... a Norris contender.

And Norris Contenders get paid more than 4.25.

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The biggest complaint about Kaberle continues to be his defensive deficiencies and his cap hit.

Its as if people expect a Norris Contender for 4.25 million.

Cause thats what a 50+ point defenceman with good defensive play is... a Norris contender.

And Norris Contenders get paid more than 4.25.

I'll take a 30 point dman who can actually play defence over a 50 point pylon any day. If Kaberle is worth 4.25M, then Markov (if healthy) should be paid $7.5M.

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I'll take a 30 point dman who can actually play defence over a 50 point pylon any day.  If Kaberle is worth 4.25M, then Markov (if healthy) should be paid $7.5M.

If there weren't questions about Markov's health, he would have been a 7 million dollar dman IMO. If he had played the last two years, with no knee injuries and was playing at a similar level to his 07-08 and 08-09 play, thats what he would have gotten.

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Yes, the Habs need two more top 4 defencemen, and yes Kaberle is a 3rd pairing guy 5 on 5.

However none of that makes him overpaid if he's still putting up 45-50 pts from your third pairing.

His contract is fair for his production, and does not limit our flexibility going forward or our ability to re-sign any players.

The only contract that is a true albatross is Gomez? Why? Because Gomez's level of play this season could easily be replicated and surpassed by a guy like Dominic Moore at a heck of a lot cheaper, and he is a massive overpay. Kaberle for his production is not the same level of massive overpay. Get rid of Gomez in whatever way necessary and you have the money necessary to make the moves that need to be made this summer (ie re-sign Price, Subban, pick up an additional D, Replace Moen and AK, get a stop gap C if your draft pick isn't ready, etc...).

Well, I'm with Commandant on this. Kaberle's cap hit is hardly a crippling blow. People go into hysterics over a 4.2 mil contract as if it's the apocalypse. It was the same with the Cole signing (remember how that was an overpay and a ridiculous term-length that was supposed to handcuff our club for years to come?). In fact, these kind of mid-range contracts are no big deal, and teams manage them all the time. The perception that that is a truly horrendous contract was created by a few terrible weeks in Carolina when he was out of shape and hungover. Prior to that, nobody was shocked at the deal, just as nobody was poleaxed when Boston traded a first round pick for him at the deadline. We get him for a song, and everyone flips.

Now, people can rightly point to a surplus of this type of player on our D - soft, offensive-minded guys who are dodgy in their own end - but that's not Kaberle's fault. Unlike Campoli, Weber and to a lesser extent Diaz he actually delivers offensive production. He is absolutely light-years ahead of all three in this respect. Indeed, the difference is big enough that he shouldn't even be classified with them. He is a legitimate NHL regular and a highly productive one, albeit somewhat one-dimensional.

There's a role for a 45-50-point playmaking defenceman on a team that needs offence and an effective power play. The contract is manageable. The real issue is that lack of balance on the blueline. What we need is to pair him with a reliable stay-at-home guy, preferably with some edge. Acquiring this player will be one important task of Gauthier's replacement.

EDIT: there is one caveat to this qualified defence of Kaberle. Everything Commandant and I say about this assumes that Kaberle is not a player in terminal decline. I don't think his numbers show decline, but give his age (33) this IS a legitimate concern, in principle.

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You both make convincing arguments for Kaberle. But I'll say this. If you play GM, would he really be on your team? He certainly wouldn't be on mine. Like the coach Martin debate, it seems people defend just for the sake of defending. If we're selling, Kaberle is the top of my list to sell. Trouble is, I believe there's something to the notion that nobody is interested.

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You both make convincing arguments for Kaberle. But I'll say this. If you play GM, would he really be on your team? He certainly wouldn't be on mine. Like the coach Martin debate, it seems people defend just for the sake of defending. If we're selling, Kaberle is the top of my list to sell. Trouble is, I believe there's something to the notion that nobody is interested.

If you sell Kaberle, you are looking for a similar defenceman to run your PP next season. Now, that might be Markov, but going into this season without a plan B for Markov was a huge mistake, and one I hope the organization doesn't repeat. I'd keep Kaberle for next season, and only trade him when I'm satisfied that Markov is healthy and able to do the job we need of him.

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If you sell Kaberle, you are looking for a similar defenceman to run your PP next season. Now, that might be Markov, but going into this season without a plan B for Markov was a huge mistake, and one I hope the organization doesn't repeat. I'd keep Kaberle for next season, and only trade him when I'm satisfied that Markov is healthy and able to do the job we need of him.

I sell Kaberle in a nanosecond. If your concern is around Markov, you need a better defenseman than Kaberle to cover that off. Use his contract (gone) as part of seed money to get a more rounded defenseman UFA possibly .

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I too would sell Kaberle if it ment a good return.

I would not deal him for nothing because I do see his vaule.

On a team where he plays 10-12 minutes ES and 4-6 mins PP he can contribute well and should Markov come back next year could make for two great waves of the PP.

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I sell Kaberle in a nanosecond. If your concern is around Markov, you need a better defenseman than Kaberle to cover that off. Use his contract (gone) as part of seed money to get a more rounded defenseman UFA possibly .

What Ufa dman is available who can both run a PP, and be well rounded as you say? Suter is about the only guy who fits that description and is UFA, and there is no guarantee you can even sign him given the number of suitors he'll have.At least with Kaberle you'd have part of the hole covered and there is plenty of money to get a Hamrlik type of D (but younger) to take some top 4 minutes at ES. The amount of money available also increases if you know Markov is done and LTIR him.

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If we were healthy on defense this year, Kaberle would of fit in perfectly if we could of acquired a 2nd pair defenseman. If Kaberle was paired with Gill from December until now, nobody would be saying anything about how weak Kaberle is defensively. The fact is with our depleted and underexperienced core, there's no way to mask Kaberle's short comings without creating more problems.

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If we were healthy on defense this year, Kaberle would of fit in perfectly if we could of acquired a 2nd pair defenseman.  If Kaberle was paired with Gill from December until now, nobody would be saying anything about how weak Kaberle is defensively.  The fact is with our depleted and underexperienced core, there's no way to mask Kaberle's short comings without creating more problems.

Agreed, we have 5 of the 7 defencemen we'll need for next year in place (either signed or as RFAs) with Gorges, Subban, Emelin, Kaberle, and Diaz. However the two pieces we are missing are top 4 minute eating defencemen. Put them in place and Kaberle isn't an issue. Markov being healthy and a Barrett jackman type.

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What Ufa dman is available who can both run a PP, and be well rounded as you say? Suter is about the only guy who fits that description and is UFA, and there is no guarantee you can even sign him given the number of suitors he'll have.At least with Kaberle you'd have part of the hole covered and there is plenty of money to get a Hamrlik type of D (but younger) to take some top 4 minutes at ES. The amount of money available also increases if you know Markov is done and LTIR him.

You are making like there is no one available. Obviously some of the people already on your roster have to step up and fill some of the void. I think it is pretty easy to get an upgrade to Kaberle. Just off the top of my head, Salo, Suter, might take a chance on Sourray, Kubina, Corvo and plenty of in-betweeners, not to mention a trade is an option. Right now you are getting top value for any player you ship out. Come the start of season teams will be tripping over players they don't know what to do with. I covet a Byfuglien.

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You are making like there is no one available. Obviously some of the people already on your roster have to step up and fill some of the void. I think it is pretty easy to get an upgrade to Kaberle. Just off the top of my head, Salo, Suter, might take a chance on Sourray, Kubina, Corvo and plenty of in-betweeners, not to mention a trade is an option. Right now you are getting top value for any player you ship out. Come the start of season teams will be tripping over players they don't know what to do with. I covet a Byfuglien.

If I remember correctly Souray was horrible defensively as well so what would that solve? He is more gritty but remember that is what got him unjured for long parts as well.

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The biggest complaint about Kaberle continues to be his defensive deficiencies and his cap hit.

Its as if people expect a Norris Contender for 4.25 million.

Cause thats what a 50+ point defenceman with good defensive play is... a Norris contender.

And Norris Contenders get paid more than 4.25.

Personally, I would keep Kaberle as well and am not too worried about the amount of money he makes... But he is nowhere near a 50 point d-man right now. Currently he is on pace for 34 points. I'll agree that he may have been on pace for more had he played the entire season with the habs and not a struggling hurricanes team but realistically he is at the very most a 40-50 (45+ being in a season where just about everything clicks) point man, not 50+.

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If I remember correctly Souray was horrible defensively as well so what would that solve? He is more gritty but remember that is what got him unjured for long parts as well.

I was just pointing out that there are other options in response that there were no other options out there. Yeah and I think i would take Sourray over kaberle, by a long shot.

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Personally, I would keep Kaberle as well and am not too worried about the amount of money he makes... But he is nowhere near a 50 point d-man right now. Currently he is on pace for 34 points. I'll agree that he may have been on pace for more had he played the entire season with the habs and not a struggling hurricanes team but realistically he is at the very most a 40-50 (45+ being in a season where just about everything clicks) point man, not 50+.

Since with Habs, on a 50.8 point pace, and that is on a offensively challanged team that is not piling up the excess goals.

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You are making like there is no one available. Obviously some of the people already on your roster have to step up and fill some of the void. I think it is pretty easy to get an upgrade to Kaberle. Just off the top of my head, Salo, Suter, might take a chance on Sourray, Kubina, Corvo and plenty of in-betweeners, not to mention a trade is an option. Right now you are getting top value for any player you ship out. Come the start of season teams will be tripping over players they don't know what to do with. I covet a Byfuglien.

Souray, Kubina, and Corvo are not upgrades on Kaberle; they all have similar defensive deficiency but score less points. Salo is an upgrade when he actually plays, but his injury history is worse than Andrei Markov. Why we'd want him on the dame defence as Markov I have no idea. Thats a disaster waiting to happen. Again, Suter is the only real name on that list capable of being a PP QB and a top 4 Defender, and there will be 29 teams after him. Much like Brad Richards last season, we may not stand a chance.

As for trading for a dman, you are going to have to give up assets to get him, and the cost will be high. I don't know that is worth it when you have a 45-50 pt dman sitting right here on your own team. No teams give up these top 4 Dmen who can score 45-50 pts cheaply on the trade market. It doesn't happen.

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As for trading for a dman, you are going to have to give up assets to get him, and the cost will be high. I don't know that is worth it when you have a 45-50 pt dman sitting right here on your own team. No teams give up these top 4 Dmen who can score 45-50 pts cheaply on the trade market. It doesn't happen.

Exactly Kyle Quincey who is at best a 35-40 point guy and plays a top 4 role just brought in a 1sr rounder.

Hal Gill a bottom parring defense only brought back a 2nd and a couple prosepcts.

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Souray, Kubina, and Corvo are not upgrades on Kaberle; they all have similar defensive deficiency but score less points. Salo is an upgrade when he actually plays, but his injury history is worse than Andrei Markov. Why we'd want him on the dame defence as Markov I have no idea. Thats a disaster waiting to happen. Again, Suter is the only real name on that list capable of being a PP QB and a top 4 Defender, and there will be 29 teams after him. Much like Brad Richards last season, we may not stand a chance.

As for trading for a dman, you are going to have to give up assets to get him, and the cost will be high. I don't know that is worth it when you have a 45-50 pt dman sitting right here on your own team. No teams give up these top 4 Dmen who can score 45-50 pts cheaply on the trade market. It doesn't happen.

I find remarkable that a man that we couldn't trade, that nobody wanted comes to the Habs and there isn't a better option out there. Secondly, you are not trading for a defenseman now when prices are up, you are trading away a defenseman. Thirdly your only criteria for this defenseman is that he gets 45-50 which is wonderful if he doesn't let that many in while he is on the ice. Therefore I respectfully disagree with your assessment of the players I suggested.as opposed to kaberle.

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I find remarkable that a man that we couldn't trade, that nobody wanted comes to the Habs and there isn't a better option out there. Secondly, you are not trading for a defenseman now when prices are up, you are trading away a defenseman. Thirdly your only criteria for this defenseman is that he gets 45-50 which is wonderful if he doesn't let that many in while he is on the ice. Therefore I respectfully disagree with your assessment of the players I suggested.as opposed to kaberle.

Kaberle is a -5 as a Hab in 30 games. He's not letting in that many at his end of the ice, and at least 3 of those are EN goals against. Kubina meanwhile has a whole 11 pts in 52 games. Souray was the human highlight reel in Montreal and not in a good way. In his last year here he was the defenceman on 3 of TSN's top 10 goals of the year. We've seen him play defence and he has far less pts/game in Dallas than Kaberle in Montreal. And Corvo left Ottawa saying the pressure in that city was too much for him. What are the chances of seeing him in Montreal anytime soon?

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Since with Habs, on a 50.8 point pace, and that is on a offensively challanged team that is not piling up the excess goals.

17 points in 31 games. That's on pace for 44.9 points on a team that relies on his offensive production so his numbers are as good as they are going to be.

The habs are also 14th in the league in goals for at 160... so I wouldn't say their offensive production is terrible either. If you want to point to the less than stellar powerplay, it's kind of a moot point because since Kaberle is such a key component on the powerplay he is not a victim there, he's part of the reason it has been "offensively challenged".

That's all somewhat besides the point though because I think the trade was a good one for the habs. We traded a defenseman who didn't even make the Czech team for a 1st or 2nd pairing d man on the same team. One of the better moves Gauthier has made for sure. I just think it's unecessary to overhype Kaberle to justify paying him 4.25 mil. As CC said, teams handle this level of cap hit all the time. I mean in the long run what are people complaining about? Even if he his overpaid, it's not by more than 500k or so. So we could sign another minor leaguer instead of having him? Mentioning his defensive play is irrelevant combined with the overpaid argument because what he is being paid to do is put up points and help the powerplay, not be a shutdown defenseman.

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