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New players means new lines - What would you do?


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2 hours ago, Commandant said:

 

I don't think sitting him does anything for his development.  


That doesn’t jive with consensus opinion that having young players be part of practice, meetings, etc is still beneficial for them even when not part of lineup no or games.

 

It helped Romanov to just be around the team in last years bubble, helped Caufield prior to playing this season by being around team and practising. So you cannot say it doesn’t do anything for his development, it is the next best thing to playing regularly and undoubtedly better than him playing in Laval or Finland at this point, given he wasn’t scratched much (if at all) this regular season.

 

Personally, I think KK should be playing, but don’t think him sitting out is going to hold him back from reaching whatever plateau he may or may not reach anyways.

 

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2 minutes ago, hockeyrealist said:


That doesn’t jive with consensus opinion that having young players be part of practice, meetings, etc is still beneficial for them even when not part of lineup no or games.

 

It helped Romanov to just be around the team in last years bubble, helped Caufield prior to playing this season by being around team and practising. So you cannot say it doesn’t do anything for his development, it is the next best thing to playing regularly and undoubtedly better than him playing in Laval or Finland at this point, given he wasn’t scratched much (if at all) this regular season.

 

Personally, I think KK should be playing, but don’t think him sitting out is going to hold him back from reaching whatever plateau he may or may not reach anyways.

 

 

That isn't what i said.. .but ok.

 

Yes, he's going to practice. 

 

The option isn't not practicing vs practicing vs practicing and playing. 

 

There are only two options.... practicing and sitting or practicing and playing. 

 

Keeping him out of the lineup does nothing to help his development. He's in his third year in the NHL and already played in the playoffs.  This isn't Romanov and Caufield getting their first practices with NHL players. 

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29 minutes ago, Commandant said:

 

I don't think that Staal over KK helps a team win now, but I've already explained the reasons why above.


I agree with your point and the ones you referenced from earlier.

Win now and developing your youth can coexist.

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1 minute ago, Commandant said:

 

That isn't what i said.. .but ok.

 

Yes, he's going to practice. 

 

The option isn't not practicing vs practicing vs practicing and playing. 

 

There are only two options.... practicing and sitting or practicing and playing. 

 

Keeping him out of the lineup does nothing to help his development.

Playing games is not the only way young players get better, he can develop without playing a single playoff game this year.

You act like it is a switch that turns on and off, he is learning and developing every day like humans do, I agree that him playing meaningful games would help him more than sitting of course, but that doesn’t mean he isn’t developing or that this necessarily stunts his growth. 
Tons of examples of guys who responded well to early career ups and downs.

Development is not a straight line function.

 

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Quit putting words in my mouth that i didn't say.

 

I never said it stunted his growth.

 

I said that not playing him is not as good for his development as playing him.   I also said that at this point in his career there are diminishing returns to just practicing.  While it is growth, its not the same as Romanov getting practices in the bubble before he played an NHL game... or Caufield who has been a pro for less than 2 months. 

 

I obviously know, and have said many times that age 20 KK is not a finished product and development is not straight line. 

 

 

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3 hours ago, Commandant said:

 

I don't think sitting him does anything for his development.  

I wasn’t taking about development but about getting to the lèvent he needs to be to help the team win : 2020 bubble mode

 

I agree that playing Staal over KK seems ridiculous, ‘was trying to guess why

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1 hour ago, Commandant said:

I don't think that Staal over KK helps a team win now, but I've already explained the reasons why above.

Perhaps I was not expressly clear, I was not saying it does ... just that DD may feel that way.

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2 minutes ago, GHT120 said:

Perhaps I was not expressly clear, I was not saying it does ... just that DD may feel that way.

 

Oh I know, I just disagree with DD. 

 

I've written my veterans who aren't physically good enough vs youngsters making mistakes rant already so i won't rehash it.

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DD is making what he thinks is a "safe decision", I realize Caulfield is a rookie and could make mistakes but he can also be a game breaker and that's something that the Habs need against a team like Toronto. I don't think they win playing it safe so I am disappointed if Caulfield doesn't play. I would also like to see KK play but he has had his chances this year and struggled, I am less disappointed with KK sitting than Caulfied.

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2 hours ago, Habs Fan in Edmonton said:

DD is making what he thinks is a "safe decision", I realize Caulfield is a rookie and could make mistakes but he can also be a game breaker and that's something that the Habs need against a team like Toronto. I don't think they win playing it safe so I am disappointed if Caulfield doesn't play. I would also like to see KK play but he has had his chances this year and struggled, I am less disappointed with KK sitting than Caulfied.

 

I agree with this that Caufield has been better than KK.

 

I guess my diffence is that i just have more faith in armia than i do in staal.  And i dont want someone like byron at centre.  So that means if staal comes out im going with kk.

 

One thing that is an issue 2e havent discussed yet though is KK and Caufield have been particularly good on the PP... and staal/armia havent.

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1 hour ago, Commandant said:

 

I agree with this that Caufield has been better than KK.

 

I guess my diffence is that i just have more faith in armia than i do in staal.  And i dont want someone like byron at centre.  So that means if staal comes out im going with kk.

 

One thing that is an issue 2e havent discussed yet though is KK and Caufield have been particularly good on the PP... and staal/armia havent.

I’d sit Stall and Byron the first game.  See if KK in place of Stall) can get up for the playoffs like last time and if Caufield (Byron) can help the PP and add offense.

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Byron is huge for our PK, and the line with Byron - Evans- Lehkonen was excellent, even when they were on the ice against McDavid.  I don't know that I would break that up. 

 

I'd stick Caufield with Suzuki cause they seemed to have some chemistry together (replacing Armia) or if you think that's too many minutes for him, move Anderson up a line and make Perry - KK - Caufield the line as Caufield and Perry have looked good together too, 

 

Armia has been ok, not terrible, but not up to his typical play since his concussion. 

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2 hours ago, Commandant said:

One thing that is an issue 2e havent discussed yet though is KK and Caufield have been particularly good on the PP... and staal/armia havent.

 

Caufield has done well on the power play so far but Kotkaniemi had four assists in 106:01 of power play time this season (no goals either).  That's better than Armia and Staal but not by a whole lot.  Even going back to last year, he had two points in 62:06 of PP time.  I wouldn't say Kotkaniemi has been good on the power play at all.

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On 5/15/2021 at 2:47 PM, Commandant said:

 

I think Caufield sitting makes more sense than KK. 

 

Don't get me wrong, I'd play Caufield. 

 

But I see why they want Armia to play physical and wear down the Leafs. 

 

KK can be just as physical as Staal with better skating, and as much as he's struggled offensively has still scored more than Staal.... so I don't get that. 

 

 

Staal and Perry can cycle. I wonder if that isn't part of the decision?

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19 hours ago, Commandant said:

Byron is huge for our PK, and the line with Byron - Evans- Lehkonen was excellent, even when they were on the ice against McDavid.  I don't know that I would break that up. 

 

Agreed on Byron. He can keep up to Marner. The only Hab that can. 

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12 minutes ago, BCHabnut said:

Staal and Perry can cycle. I wonder if that isn't part of the decision?

Oh, Staal can cycle all right! Just not sure ultra-slow motion is the cycle we need vs the Leafs, maybe if trying to lull them to sleep of something.

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29 minutes ago, BCHabnut said:

Staal and Perry can cycle. I wonder if that isn't part of the decision?

 

Perry certainly can. 

 

I don't recall too many instances of Staal being effective in the cycle game since he's been a Hab.  He's been out there but other than the odd play here and there, the guy looks too slow to compete at this level. If we were playing a team like Calgary, then maybe, but playing a fast team like the Leafs, I don't see how he's gonna be effective. 

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45 minutes ago, Commandant said:

 

Perry certainly can. 

 

I don't recall too many instances of Staal being effective in the cycle game since he's been a Hab.  He's been out there but other than the odd play here and there, the guy looks too slow to compete at this level. If we were playing a team like Calgary, then maybe, but playing a fast team like the Leafs, I don't see how he's gonna be effective. 

I remember the Frolik - Staal - Perry line put on a clinic for the cycle in the games they played. It just rarely went anywhere, of course.

 

But if Staal and Perry can play heavy in the Leafs zone then it could bear fruit against a team that has recently been allergic to playoff-style hockey.

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21 minutes ago, Trizzak said:

I remember the Frolik - Staal - Perry line put on a clinic for the cycle in the games they played. It just rarely went anywhere, of course.

 

But if Staal and Perry can play heavy in the Leafs zone then it could bear fruit against a team that has recently been allergic to playoff-style hockey.

I was going to mention those games, probably the bet is that with Anderson they will do better

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56 minutes ago, Trizzak said:

I remember the Frolik - Staal - Perry line put on a clinic for the cycle in the games they played. It just rarely went anywhere, of course.

 

But if Staal and Perry can play heavy in the Leafs zone then it could bear fruit against a team that has recently been allergic to playoff-style hockey.

 

Yeah there was like 2 games of that.  It was a real small sample size considering the 21 games he's played for the team. 

 

I think it was against Calgary too, again, not the team speed of the Leafs. 

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3 hours ago, Commandant said:

 

Yeah there was like 2 games of that.  It was a real small sample size considering the 21 games he's played for the team. 

 

I think it was against Calgary too, again, not the team speed of the Leafs. 

Some are pointing to how much chemistry Caufield and Suzuki after a couple of games too

 

min both cases there was evidence of some chemistry, but each has appeal with different fan base

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7 minutes ago, alfredoh2009 said:

Some are pointing to how much chemistry Caufield and Suzuki after a couple of games too

 

min both cases there was evidence of some chemistry, but each has appeal with different fan base

 

I'm fine with Caufield playing the fourth line and PP.  I don't think he needs to be with Suzuki for the record. 

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1 hour ago, Commandant said:

 

I'm fine with Caufield playing the fourth line and PP.  I don't think he needs to be with Suzuki for the record. 


I know you’ve written that, I am making that comparison 

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