Where are they now? News on past Habs prospects and players

[GHT120]

11 hours ago, Prime Minister Koivu said:

One of the worst trades in Montreal history and the Habs have made some terrible trades over the years. 
 

Congrats to Scott Gomez on his head coaching position. 
 

 

 

For those of us who didn't instantly recognize the logo:

The BCHL’s Surrey Eagles announced today that former NHLer and Stanley Cup champion Scott Gomez has been named general manager and head coach.

[The Chicoutimi Cucumber]

Surprised no one has mentioned that Shea Weber is now in the Hall of Fame: https://www.sportsnet.ca/nhl/article/shea-weber-to-become-19th-canadiens-captain-inducted-into-hockey-hall-of-fame/

 

I can’t say I ever really warmed to him, but he was undeniably an absolute stud in his prime and one of the all-time goal-scoring defencemen. He deserves our eternal respect for elevating his game for the entire 2021 playoff, helping Carey Price drag the team to the Finals when he should not even have been dressed. A true warrior, no question about it.

 

Congratulations, Shea Weber 🫡

[huzer]

14 hours ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said:

Surprised no one has mentioned that Shea Weber is now in the Hall of Fame: https://www.sportsnet.ca/nhl/article/shea-weber-to-become-19th-canadiens-captain-inducted-into-hockey-hall-of-fame/

 

I can’t say I ever really warmed to him, but he was undeniably an absolute stud in his prime and one of the all-time goal-scoring defencemen. He deserves our eternal respect for elevating his game for the entire 2021 playoff, helping Carey Price drag the team to the Finals when he should not even have been dressed. A true warrior, no question about it.

 

Congratulations, Shea Weber 🫡

 

I propose the following rule changes:

 

If a player:

• Hasn't played in 3 years
• Elected to hockey hall of fame
• Is on LTIR with an active contract

Their contract no longer counts against the cap. (Price is eligible next year) Call it an archived contract.

 

[The Chicoutimi Cucumber]

27 minutes ago, huzer said:

 

I propose the following rule changes:

 

If a player:

• Hasn't played in 3 years
• Elected to hockey hall of fame
• Is on LTIR with an active contract

Their contract no longer counts against the cap. (Price is eligible next year) Call it an archived contract.

 

 

Seems unibjectionable.

 

It's funny how Weber seems not to have captured much affection from Habs fans, despite being our captain and core player for five years, and being the alpha dog in the Trident of 2021. Is it just that we traded the ultra-popular, ultra-charismatic Subban for him? Is it that the team sucked for 3 of his 5 years? Is it his extremely boring, old-school demeanour, a poor fit for the culture of Montreal? Is it that he never really seemed too thrilled to be here? All of the above?

[huzer]

2 hours ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said:

 

Seems unibjectionable.

 

It's funny how Weber seems not to have captured much affection from Habs fans, despite being our captain and core player for five years, and being the alpha dog in the Trident of 2021. Is it just that we traded the ultra-popular, ultra-charismatic Subban for him? Is it that the team sucked for 3 of his 5 years? Is it his extremely boring, old-school demeanour, a poor fit for the culture of Montreal? Is it that he never really seemed too thrilled to be here? All of the above?

 

I think "character" + injuries lead most fans to devalue his time with the Habs.  He is inextricably tied to Subban, and I think there's still the debatable question, in some eyes, did the trade make the Habs a better team? Once he went LTIR for the Habs, he disappeared off the face of the earth. The fact he's show in Preds colors for all of the HHOF press probably won't endear him to more fans, either.

[GHT120]

[tomh009]

I had completely forgotten about Berezin.

[hab29RETIRED]

Good Cowan article on Weber:

I know I was pissed when he never showed up for Lafleur's funeral as the team captain. But this 
 

[The Chicoutimi Cucumber]

Two thoughts. One is that this really underscores what an unbelievable warrior Weber was for us in the playoffs in 2021. Again, I never warmed to him myself, but I will always respect him for the sacrifices he made in that run.

 

The other is the similarity between what he and Price went through. Both dragged us to the Finals through a hideous effort of will, with bodies that were basically broken. And both plunged into depression and despair by the combination of a failure to win the Cup in what they knew was their last chance, and the knowledge that their careers were likely over.

 

That’s the flip side of being an unbelievable competitor. It’s so hard to accept losing not just the Cup but your career.

 

(You hear players talk about losing the Cup, and it’s clear how much it haunts them. I remember a reporter asking Mike Peka a couple of years ago whether he still thinks about losing that series. His response: “I think about it every single day.” This was 15 years after the event).

 

Anyway, nice to see Weber showing a human side for once. 

 

 

 

 

[Prime Minister Koivu]

I came across this prospect ranking article posted by Habs Reditt. It’s from 2015 and the Habs had a grading of B

 

LMAO 

 

 

[hab29RETIRED]

31 minutes ago, Prime Minister Koivu said:

I came across this prospect ranking article posted by Habs Reditt. It’s from 2015 and the Habs had a grading of B

 

LMAO 

 

 

"Impressed Therrien" should have been enough of an indication that De La Rose wasn't going to amount to anything.

 

There's no one on that list to even warrant a "C" rating - and that's not hindsight. The only guy I though back than that may amount to something was Jullson, but even he only had a middle pairing upside. 
McCarron was a waste of a pick. They traded up to draft Timordi, because of his dad, and because the dad played for Gainey. The rest aren't even worth talking about.

[Prime Minister Koivu]

1 hour ago, hab29RETIRED said:

"Impressed Therrien" should have been enough of an indication that De La Rose wasn't going to amount to anything.

 

There's no one on that list to even warrant a "C" rating - and that's not hindsight. The only guy I though back than that may amount to something was Jullson, but even he only had a middle pairing upside. 
McCarron was a waste of a pick. They traded up to draft Timordi, because of his dad, and because the dad played for Gainey. The rest aren't even worth talking about.

I remember hype around a lot of these players. Hudon was constantly hyped as a future champion. 
 

Most of these players are late firsts or second rounders but what a terrible draft record 

[Commandant]

41 minutes ago, Prime Minister Koivu said:

I remember hype around a lot of these players. Hudon was constantly hyped as a future champion. 
 

Most of these players are late firsts or second rounders but what a terrible draft record 

 

This just shows why the head coach hire in Laval is so critical to the future of this team.  These were some good players but every single one failed to live up to expectations.  Yes, sometimes players bust, it happens.... but when all 10 players on a list like this bust... every single one, we have to ask what the heck was going on in player development. 

[Prime Minister Koivu]

1 hour ago, Commandant said:

 

This just shows why the head coach hire in Laval is so critical to the future of this team.  These were some good players but every single one failed to live up to expectations.  Yes, sometimes players bust, it happens.... but when all 10 players on a list like this bust... every single one, we have to ask what the heck was going on in player development. 

This is a very good point because the assumption is that drafting was terrible. 
 

In reality it’s probably some of bad drafting (Tinordi because of his name) and lots of bad development. 
 

 

[Commandant]

30 minutes ago, Prime Minister Koivu said:

This is a very good point because the assumption is that drafting was terrible. 
 

In reality it’s probably some of bad drafting (Tinordi because of his name) and lots of bad development. 
 

 

 

Tinordi made the NHL and was a useful #6 d even after leaving us.  Was that all he could ever be? Or.was there a player there and years of wasted development didnt let him reach his ceiling?

 

I dont know, i dont have a time machine but i never thought he was picked because of his name and didnt think he was a bad pick.

 

Mike McCarron, now that was a pick i hated on day 1.

[The Chicoutimi Cucumber]

4 hours ago, Prime Minister Koivu said:

I remember hype around a lot of these players. Hudon was constantly hyped as a future champion. 
 

Most of these players are late firsts or second rounders but what a terrible draft record 

 

You’re right about the hype, though. A lot of people on this very board were pumped about several of these players, for some years.

 

This list exemplifies why I tend to be somewhat skeptical about prospects until they actually show they can deliver. Someone like Demidov, I’ll make an exception for, because the word on him is so crazily good.

 

3 hours ago, Commandant said:

 

This just shows why the head coach hire in Laval is so critical to the future of this team.  These were some good players but every single one failed to live up to expectations.  Yes, sometimes players bust, it happens.... but when all 10 players on a list like this bust... every single one, we have to ask what the heck was going on in player development. 

 

Drafting vs development - so hard to know. But going back to Gainey, we’ve seen this dynamic where picks are highly regarded and then fail to pan out, so development surely has been a big part of the problem.

 

[Prime Minister Koivu]

This 2015 prospect list represents an entire generation of players that had little to no impact on the Habs. 
 

There were many conversations regarding player development over that time and look at the proof. 
 

To add to Commandant’s comments, the Habs prospect pool was rated a B. That indicates that we drafted some good players but we failed to develop them. 
 

 

[GHT120]

11 hours ago, Commandant said:

This just shows why the head coach hire in Laval is so critical to the future of this team.  These were some good players but every single one failed to live up to expectations.  Yes, sometimes players bust, it happens.... but when all 10 players on a list like this bust... every single one, we have to ask what the heck was going on in player development. 

I suspect the "failures" on that list are a mix of bad drafting and poor development, with an element of a somewhat desperate fanbase having unrealistic expectations for most of those prospects.

[Habs Fan in Edmonton]

1 hour ago, GHT120 said:

I suspect the "failures" on that list are a mix of bad drafting and poor development, with an element of a somewhat desperate fanbase having unrealistic expectations for most of those prospects.

 

I think you summed it up pretty well. Us fans tend to hope and dream that our prospects will turn into the group that takes us to the promised land but it certainly didn't work out with the group in 2015. I don't know who rated it a "B" but looking back that was a wildly optimistic rating. Jacob De La Rose #1??  I like to think that our current #1 prospect (Hutson, Demidov ?) and group of 10 will turn out far far better. It will be a massive disappointment if it doesn't. 

[hab29RETIRED]

Is there really anyone on that list was a legit top line or top pairing time of prospect?

I don't recall anyone thinking Hudon was going to be a top line guy.

 

De La rose was seen as a potential 3rd line centre.

 

Andrighetto was another in a long line of undersized players who was projected as a middle six guy. 
 

Sherbeck was seen as a boom or bust project. 
 

the only two guys that I recall their being any hype around were Fucale and Juulsen. 
 

I'm not downplaying the development part - I was complaining about it as far back as Galchenyuk, and even though I hated the KK pick, I was even more vocal about rushing a 17 year old into the lineup because of the GM's inability to acquire a centre.

 

development was clearly an issue. But we also have been drafting a lot of 3rd and 4th liners. I can't even recall as drafting anyone like Hage, that there was a legit excitement about- let alone a Demidov type player. This year we had two first rounders, and it's probably the first time since in over 25-30 years that there hasn't been a single person who is upset about the picks.  The Caufield pick was the only other pick I loved - but he fell to us and it became a no-brainer. But there was still the size concern and whether he would be able to be the same scorer in the NHL. Hell, there are still some who question him as a legit top line guy on a winning team because of his size.
 

im not downplaying the player development issues the Habs have had since Savard was fired, and how player development reached a Harrold Ballard/John Brophy era level of incompetence under Bergevin/Thereian, but drafting was also a big issue. From Kostitysyn to KK we took the wrong guy too many times.

 

There is further evidence of player  development issues under Bergevin by the fact that players drafted during the last few years of the Bergevin/Timmons era are now prospering - after they were gone!  Hell even Caufield was a mess in Bergevin's last year until that idiot DD was fired. 
 

So I agree that player development was a problem, but so was drafting.

[alfredoh2009]

A lot of prospects during that era were late first rounders or 3rd round picks. Quite

a few times the Habs didn’t have a 2nd round pick.

 

it is similar to the Penguins drought.

[hab29RETIRED]

32 minutes ago, alfredoh2009 said:

A lot of prospects during that era were late first rounders or 3rd round picks. Quite

a few times the Habs didn’t have a 2nd round pick.

 

it is similar to the Penguins drought.

Other teams like the Bruins and lightening found high end talent with late first rounders and in later rounds. We found a grand total of three in the last 15 years - Gallagher, Subban and Pactioretty. 
 

What separates the elite teams from the middle of the road to bad teams is good scouting AND development.  
 

our philosophy for too long was trying to find good Bob Gainey's and Mike Keanes rather than elite players for a LONG time. It also seems that most potentially skilled guys we drafted over the years were very small guys. 
 

Our European scouting was behind the times from the get go, and  outside of Mats Naslund, Dahlin, V. Bure and Koivu, in the earlier years we didn't really have a lot of picks or success. Most Europeans we did draft were guys mostly with 3rd line potential like De La Rose. 
 

We used a top ten pick on a Russian twice - one in the best draft ever, and passed over consensus higher rated guys, and than Sergechev,, who we traded for the great French hope.  

[GHT120]

1 hour ago, alfredoh2009 said:

A lot of prospects during that era were late first rounders or 3rd round picks. Quite

a few times the Habs didn’t have a 2nd round pick.

 

it is similar to the Penguins drought.

 

When assessing draft picks in retrospect it is less where they were drafted and more who did the team pass on to draft the player.

 

Jacob de la Rose - Next player selected was JT Compher (2xgames played, 8xgoals, 5xassists)
Nikita Scherbak - three picks later was Adrian Kempe (4xGP, 26xg, 84xa)
Zach Fucale - eight picks later the next goalie selected was Tristan Jarry (64xGP)

Noah Juulsen - in fairness, hard to predict injuries ... but two picks later was Anthony Beauvillier and nine picks later was Sebsastian Aho

Jarred Tinordi - in the next eight picks came Mark Pysyk, Kevin Hayes, Evgeny Kuznetsov, Charlie Coyle and Brock Nelson

Michael McCarron - next pick was Shea Theodore

Martin Reway - #116, nobody significantly better in close proximity

Sven Andrighetto - three picks later, Oliver Bjorkstrand (2xGP, 5xg, 3xa)

Charles Hudon - eight picks later, Connor Hellebuyck

Mike Condon - undrafted ... his year the Habs drafted Danny Kristo, Steve Quailer, Jason Missiaen, Maxim Trunev and Patrick Johnson

 

Except for Reway and maybe Andrighetto there were better choices available ... five failures drafted while passing on Condon.

 

I-M-O the six "picks" whose names are in red were mistakes; I exclude Fucale and Hudon because 8 picks is quite a separation.

[Commandant]

I don't think its that simple though.  How many of those picks are mistakes of drafting, and how many look great if they simply develop better. 

 

There isn't any real way of separating the two. 

[tomh009]

2 hours ago, Commandant said:

I don't think its that simple though.  How many of those picks are mistakes of drafting, and how many look great if they simply develop better. 

 

There isn't any real way of separating the two. 

And every team misses what look like brilliant picks in retrospect. Kuznetsov, for example? He was picked 26th, probably 20+ teams wish they had picked him.