2021-22 NHL Discussion Thread

[Prime Minister Koivu]

20 minutes ago, GHT120 said:

I always suspected that McGuire was a Melnyk hire ... GM in waiting, or at least a threat hanging over Dorion's head entering contract negotiations ... two months later Dorion got his extension ... with Melnyk now gone I now suspect that Dorion eliminated the perceived competition, and/or got rid of someone who worked behind the scenes to undermine Dorion ... ALL MY SUSPICIONS. 

Certainly a plausible conspiracy considering what a lunatic Melnyk was and considering what a lunatic McGuire was too. 
 

I remember McGuire’s rant against Markov when Komisarek signed with the leafs. He went on and on about how Komisarek carried Markov. MARKOV WILL BE SERIOUSLY EXPOSED over and over. 
 

I labeled McGuire a lunatic at that point

[The Chicoutimi Cucumber]

2 hours ago, Prime Minister Koivu said:

Certainly a plausible conspiracy considering what a lunatic Melnyk was and considering what a lunatic McGuire was too. 
 

I remember McGuire’s rant against Markov when Komisarek signed with the leafs. He went on and on about how Komisarek carried Markov. MARKOV WILL BE SERIOUSLY EXPOSED over and over. 
 

I labeled McGuire a lunatic at that point

 

Ha! I remember that too. Hard to imagine an "analyst" getting it more radically wrong.

 

My feeling about McGuire was that he started out as a really quite knowledgeable and insightful commentator; but he gradually degenerated as his "Monster McGuire!!" persona took over. It became all about know-it-all instant hot takes blared at top volume. In short, he started earnest and useful and morphed into ever-more bombastic bloviations as his ego ballooned. A pity, really. But you have to hand it to him - through sheer loudmouthed showmanship, he parlayed a dismal failure of a coaching career into 20 years of broadcasting and somehow managed to land an executive job despite a track record of incompetence. Not even Don Cherry managed that trick.

[Habs Fan in Edmonton]

4 hours ago, Prime Minister Koivu said:

I remember McGuire’s rant against Markov when Komisarek signed with the leafs. He went on and on about how Komisarek carried Markov. MARKOV WILL BE SERIOUSLY EXPOSED over and over. 
 

I labeled McGuire a lunatic at that point

 

Did he really say that about Markov?  I must have missed that rant. That would have been an incredibly stupid thing to say.  Komisarek carrying Markov?   LOL

[hab29RETIRED]

3 hours ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said:

 

Ha! I remember that too. Hard to imagine an "analyst" getting it more radically wrong.

 

My feeling about McGuire was that he started out as a really quite knowledgeable and insightful commentator; but he gradually degenerated as his "Monster McGuire!!" persona took over. It became all about know-it-all instant hot takes blared at top volume. In short, he started earnest and useful and morphed into ever-more bombastic bloviations as his ego ballooned. A pity, really. But you have to hand it to him - through sheer loudmouthed showmanship, he parlayed a dismal failure of a coaching career into 20 years of broadcasting and somehow managed to land an executive job despite a track record of incompetence. Not even Don Cherry managed that trick.

How about the “off the reservation pick” comment. Right up there Pang’s “need to play the white way”.

[GHT120]

I have to agree ... other than his use of "amount"

 

 

 

[Commandant]

Seider is winning anyways, 

 

He should thank Dom Ducharme in his acceptance speech.

[alfredoh2009]

I am not bitter

 

[hab29RETIRED]

1 hour ago, GHT120 said:

I have to agree ... other than his use of "amount"

 

 

 

I agree, but I think that voters probably didn’t want to pick two guys from the wings. Seider probably wins anyways.
Having did that, I think Caufield probably deserves more consideration for his second half than Bunting.

[The Chicoutimi Cucumber]

On 5/9/2022 at 6:23 PM, hab29RETIRED said:

How about the “off the reservation pick” comment. Right up there Pang’s “need to play the white way”.

 

Pang's gaffe, I see as a verbal bumble (although I don't discount the possibility of a Freudian slip). Macguire's "reservation" comment was a considered intervention, probably something he'd saved for when Price got drafted, and therefore far less excusable IMHO. 

[GHT120]

1 minute ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said:

Pang's gaffe, I see as a verbal bumble (although I don't discount the possibility of a Freudian slip). Macguire's "reservation" comment was a considered intervention, probably something he'd saved for when Price got drafted, and therefore far less excusable IMHO. 

 

Agreed ... although, disregarding any correctness issues, I always thought he was referring more to Montreal's "perceived obvious" needs than Price's potential ... they had Theodore coming off 5 seasons of .919, .909, .931, .908 and .919, and Halak in the system.

[Commandant]

2 hours ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said:

 

Pang's gaffe, I see as a verbal bumble (although I don't discount the possibility of a Freudian slip). Macguire's "reservation" comment was a considered intervention, probably something he'd saved for when Price got drafted, and therefore far less excusable IMHO. 

 

I don't think he intentionally made the off the reservation comment in regards to price. I think it was because the Habs had Theodore just 1 year removed from a Hart Trophy year, had an obvious need at centre, and gilbert brule was the expected pick. 

[hab29RETIRED]

2 minutes ago, Commandant said:

 

I don't think he intentionally made the off the reservation comment in regards to price. I think it was because the Habs had Theodore just 1 year removed from a Hart Trophy year, had an obvious need at centre, and gilbert brule was the expected pick. 

I think the choice of words pretty deliberate and planned for price. That’s not a usual term to use in that context.

[dlbalr]

4 minutes ago, hab29RETIRED said:

I think the choice of words pretty deliberate and planned for price. That’s not a usual term to use in that context.

 

Only McGuire knows one way or the other but I certainly thought the context of the comment was simply based on the extreme surprise of the pick relative to the expected options at the time, nothing more than that.

[DON]

No, i rememeber the other way. He seemed to be connecting Price-Native reserve on purpose. That was my immediate impression anyways, at the time.

[Commandant]

Here is the video in question. 

 

 

[hab29RETIRED]

9 minutes ago, Commandant said:

Here is the video in question. 

 

 

Off the books sure. Off the reservation, that was very deliberate.

[Commandant]

Agree to disagree here.  It was a thoughtless comment more than intentional racism imo.

[alfredoh2009]

4 hours ago, Commandant said:

Here is the video in question. 

 

 

 

I already miss Carey, not sure we will see him perform at a high level in Montreal. For almost 20 years he has been the core of the core of players the Habs built on.

 

Hugh-Gort better get the rebuild right. Habs need elite talent

[The Chicoutimi Cucumber]

Off the radar

Off script

Off the chart 

Outside the lines

Outside the box

 

All of those are common expressions which one would normally use to indicate an unexpected choice or decision, such as the Habs’ decision to draft Price even though they already had a #1G in Theodore.

 

’Off the reservation’ is not such an expression, at least not that I’m aware. And to think that Macguire just happened to hit on it when an Indigenous player was chosen beggars belief. This wasn’t just an unfortunate application of a well-worn cliche, or a garbling of syllables like Pang’s ‘white way’ blunder. It was Macguire coining a phrase in light of Carey Price’s First Nation identity. I mean…it really wouldn’t be *too* much different if he’d said ‘Right off the plantation!’ to describe drafting an African American kid from an agricultural family in the American south. No thanks.

 

I didn’t twig fully to it at the time, as I recall, because I wasn’t aware that Price was Indigenous. I do remember thinking ‘what an odd thing to say’ and assuming it was a way of slagging the Habs’ choice. Price’s Indigeneity is what explains Macguire’s dismal word choice.

[DON]

7 hours ago, alfredoh2009 said:

Hugh-Gort better get the rebuild right. Habs need elite talent

Yup, key ingredient that has been missing for almost 30yrs. Up front mostly, but need at least 1 PP QB/assist machine on back end also.

Hope one of the next 4 1st round picks (through draft/trade) address that. And kinda why i keep looking to Flames/Pick #33 as range to maybe grab a solid d-ma

[GHT120]

11 hours ago, Commandant said:

Agree to disagree here.  It was a thoughtless comment more than intentional racism imo.

As with most everything ...differing perceptions have roots ... in this case it may often have much to do with where each person falls on the "fan of Pierre McGuire" scale ... the closer one is to zero the more likely a negative interpretation is applied, the closer to 10 the more likely that there is no issue ... the mid-range tend to the inadvertent poor choice of words.

[Habs Fan in Edmonton]

11 minutes ago, GHT120 said:

As with most everything ...differing perceptions have roots ... in this case it may often have much to do with where each person falls on the "fan of Pierre McGuire" scale ... the closer one is to zero the more likely a negative interpretation is applied, the closer to 10 the more likely that there is no issue ... the mid-range tend to the inadvertent poor choice of words.

 

I guess I am probably in the mid range.  Just a really really poor choice of woods.  

[GHT120]

8 minutes ago, Habs Fan in Edmonton said:

 

I guess I am probably in the mid range.  Just a really really poor choice of woods.  

 

As Dlbair said, only Pierre knows if there was any racist intent (overt or subliminal) or just a poor choice of an expression.

[dlbalr]

2 hours ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said:

’Off the reservation’ is not such an expression, at least not that I’m aware. 

 

I've heard that expression used within that context plenty of times before.

[Commandant]

2 hours ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said:

Off the radar

Off script

Off the chart 

Outside the lines

Outside the box

 

All of those are common expressions which one would normally use to indicate an unexpected choice or decision, such as the Habs’ decision to draft Price even though they already had a #1G in Theodore.

 

’Off the reservation’ is not such an expression, at least not that I’m aware. And to think that Macguire just happened to hit on it when an Indigenous player was chosen beggars belief. This wasn’t just an unfortunate application of a well-worn cliche, or a garbling of syllables like Pang’s ‘white way’ blunder. It was Macguire coining a phrase in light of Carey Price’s First Nation identity. I mean…it really wouldn’t be *too* much different if he’d said ‘Right off the plantation!’ to describe drafting an African American kid from an agricultural family in the American south. No thanks.

 

I didn’t twig fully to it at the time, as I recall, because I wasn’t aware that Price was Indigenous. I do remember thinking ‘what an odd thing to say’ and assuming it was a way of slagging the Habs’ choice. Price’s Indigeneity is what explains Macguire’s dismal word choice.

 

Off the reservation is a phrase that one would use to indicate an unexpected choice or decision though.  Its being used less often due to the racist connotations and history of it, but this is not Maguire coining a phrase. It was in existence for decades before he said it.