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2021-22 NHL Discussion Thread


tomh009
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This is neither a trade proposal nor a trade rumour, so I'm posting it here ... but today in The Athletic Pierre Lebrun, in discussing various pending free agents, speculated that if John Klingberg JK leaves Dallas he wouldn't be surprised to see Montreal call to see whether the Stars have any interest in Jeff Petry ... assuming Dallas remains in "win now" mode there could be some logic in their perhaps being interested in Petry ... and I don't think Lebrun is a "throw it out there as clickbait" type, so I have to wonder if there might not be tiny wisps of smoke. 

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Dallas has been a speculative landing spot for Petry for a while, going back to the trade deadline when it looked like Klingberg would be traded.  I could see that one still making sense.

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Thats something weve heard before (during the season, rumours were Dallas would acquire Petry and would trade Klingberg)

 

It makes sense.

 

 

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Our old pal PK Subban wins the King Clancy Award for Leadership On and Off the Ice. 

 

https://pucksandpitchforks.com/2022/06/07/new-jersey-devils-p-k-subban-deservingly-wins-king-clancy-memorial-trophy/

 

It only took the NHL crowd 10 years to figure out that a flashy personality + black skin do not automatically mean you are a ‘problem’ - and that you may, in fact, be great for the game.

 

(Of course, it helps that he is no longer an elite player. That makes him less ‘threatening’ 🙄)

 

Anyway, kudos to PK and much deserved.

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14 minutes ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said:

Our old pal PK Subban wins the King Clancy Award for Leadership On and Off the Ice. 

 

https://pucksandpitchforks.com/2022/06/07/new-jersey-devils-p-k-subban-deservingly-wins-king-clancy-memorial-trophy/

 

It only took the NHL crowd 10 years to figure out that a flashy personality + black skin do not automatically mean you are a ‘problem’ - and that you may, in fact, be great for the game.

 

(Of course, it helps that he is no longer an elite player. That makes him less ‘threatening’ 🙄)

 

Anyway, kudos to PK and much deserved.

 

I loved PK with the Habs and my family stopped following the Habs after he was traded.

 

but on your comment, I do not think that the NHL has misjudged him all these years: He won the award this year on merit and I doubt the reason he didn't before is what you suggest (personality + dark skin).

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Subban has absolutely been maligned throughout his career for the fact he has an outgoing personality and the colour of his skin.  All the way back to his rookie season with Mike Richards, to Darren Pang having a freudian slip and saying he doesn't play the white way, to the comments about him when he was traded from Montreal by Tony Marinaro and others in the media, to Boston fans being racist on twitter and making the N word trend when he scored an OT goal in the playoffs, fans showing up in Subbanator shirts and black face, and other incidents as well. 

 

 

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2 hours ago, Commandant said:

Subban has absolutely been maligned throughout his career for the fact he has an outgoing personality and the colour of his skin.  All the way back to his rookie season with Mike Richards, to Darren Pang having a freudian slip and saying he doesn't play the white way, to the comments about him when he was traded from Montreal by Tony Marinaro and others in the media, to Boston fans being racist on twitter and making the N word trend when he scored an OT goal in the playoffs, fans showing up in Subbanator shirts and black face, and other incidents as well. 

 

 

Agreed. Racism wasn’t a factor in the attitudes toward Subban, the same why it wasn’t a factor in the threats Kadri received 🙄


I don’t remember anyone saying let’s kill that American xxxx when Kreider knocked Price out of the semi-finals, or any reason Kreider receiving death threats, or requiring any p or ice presence. 
 

while I wanted retribution for what Chara did to MaxPac, I don’t remember Chara needing protection or anyone saying anything about his heritage - usually doesn’t happen with white players.

 

only time heritage has been brought up outside of the Don Cherry crowd, has been following war in Ukraine, where Russian players have been targeted - but even they aren’t receiving death threats.

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There is a difference between overt, explicit racism - KKK stuff, or jeering animals who throw bananas on the ice - and subliminal racism. In the age of Trump and white backlash, we’ve seen a depressing rise in the former. But the latter is what really explains a lot about the reaction to PK. I’m not saying the anti-PK sentiment came from people who explicitly think of themselves as racist. No doubt they would be honestly shocked and hurt if you called them racist; they think of themselves as tolerant people. They’re not, in short, overt racists. What they are, or were, IMHO, is subliminally racist.

 

Subliminal racism involves an unconscious, gut-level negative response, as when that black guy ‘makes me uncomfortable,’ or (flip side) when that white guy just ‘seems like a good fit.’ I would argue that the hostile reaction to PK’s brashness was heavily inflected by this sort of subliminal racism: exactly the kind of negative visceral reaction you’d expect to see directed at an ‘uppity’ black man in a nearly all-white environment.

 

Imagine if PK Subban had been white. Here’s this flashy, hard-hitting, dynamic, charismatic young Canadian white kid who steps right in as a rookie and lights it up. He would have been hailed as an all-star, the new HNIC golden boy, the exciting new face of hockey. But because he’s black, the reaction skewed in the opposite direction: oh, he’s not a team player (even though he had an off-the-chart work ethic and showed up every single shift); he needs to be deliberately injured because he fails to show sufficient ‘respect’ (Richards - and if you can’t see the racist subtext there, God help you); he is a ‘problem,’ he is controversial, blah blah blah blah. 

 

It was ridiculous, and reflected gut responses distorted by subliminal racism. 

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PK Subban and Sheldon Souray were traded away from Montreal for being a distraction. Different colors of skin.

 

One was a philanthropist and eventually won appreciation for his work

 

The other imploded after a nasty divorce and was never the same.

 

===

Romanticizing the version of PK when he was in Montreal is expected from his fans; describing the only reason he hadn't won the award before because of racism is disengenious

 

Yes, he was a target of racism, no question about it. But the argument that the NHL committee awarding this award had those optics is unfounded

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13 minutes ago, alfredoh2009 said:

PK Subban and Sheldon Souray were traded away from Montreal for being a distraction. Different colors of skin.

 

One was a philanthropist and eventually won appreciation for his work

 

The other imploded after a nasty divorce and was never the same.

 

===

Romanticizing the version of PK when he was in Montreal is expected from his fans; describing the only reason he hadn't won the award before because of racism is disengenious

 

Yes, he was a target of racism, no question about it. But the argument that the NHL committee awarding this award had those optics is unfounded

 

I didn't say that he was denied the award earlier because of racism. What I'm saying is that the hostility PK generated in his first several years was significantly inflected by racism. 

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1 hour ago, alfredoh2009 said:

PK Subban and Sheldon Souray were traded away from Montreal for being a distraction. Different colors of skin.

 

One was a philanthropist and eventually won appreciation for his work

 

The other imploded after a nasty divorce and was never the same.

 

===

Romanticizing the version of PK when he was in Montreal is expected from his fans; describing the only reason he hadn't won the award before because of racism is disengenious

 

Yes, he was a target of racism, no question about it. But the argument that the NHL committee awarding this award had those optics is unfounded

Souray wasn’t trade - should have been traded but left as a UFA.

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I will miss Luke

 

 

 

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8 minutes ago, alfredoh2009 said:

I will miss Luke

Really, why?

I am not sure if he can coach well at all and dont think would be a loss at all?

 

Come on down... Hal Gill, he was coaching minor hockey I think, so should fit right in with Marty.:nuts:

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1 minute ago, DON said:

Really, why?

I am not sure if he can coach well at all and dont think would be a loss at all?

 

Come on down... Hal Gill, he was coaching minor hockey I think, so should fit right in with Marty.:nuts:

 

I started following Luke after his daughter committed suicide. I am father to three daughters and I have a soft spot for fathers that go through rough stuff like that.

 

I gained a lot of respect on how Luke dealt with his mourning and how he turned this into a way to help others (https://www.difd.com/about)

 

I also liked him as a player and I've always liked how he coaches D

 

I was very happy when he joined the Habs.

 

I will miss him

 

 

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Was never a fan of his play, is horrible what happened. But, also sorry to say pretty irrelevant to coaching the d. 

And strictly as a coach, seems "ok" ; but, i dont think it would hurt to try someone of Marty's choice.

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10 hours ago, alfredoh2009 said:

I will miss Luke

 

There's no guarantee he's leaving.  He has had several head coaching interviews in the past without anything coming out of it. 

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On 6/8/2022 at 3:40 PM, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said:

Imagine if PK Subban had been white. Here’s this flashy, hard-hitting, dynamic, charismatic young Canadian white kid who steps right in as a rookie and lights it up. He would have been hailed as an all-star, the new HNIC golden boy, the exciting new face of hockey. But because he’s black, the reaction skewed in the opposite direction: oh, he’s not a team player (even though he had an off-the-chart work ethic and showed up every single shift); 

To be honest,  here in Montreal, in the French Medias and in the comments secions of RDS, TVA Sports, LaPresse, etc on Social Medias,  he was pegged as "not a team player" because he kept wearing his own brand cap in post game interviews in the locker room instead of a Habs cap.  I'm dead serious.  Even close friends of mine were vocal about how it looked.  It looked, for them, that he was promoting his gear more than commit to the team, more interested by his own success than team's success. 

 

I didn't see that myself as I thought he would always give 100% and be involved in scrums, defending teammates very frequently. 

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Don't know that he has ever taken over a team that had as good a season as the Panthers just did ... but history (NOTE: past performance is no guarantee of future results) makes the Chiarot trade potentially look GREAT as Maurice has never made the playoffs in his first season coaching an NHL team.

 

 

 

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39 minutes ago, GHT120 said:

Don't know that he has ever taken over a team that had as good a season as the Panthers just did ... but history (NOTE: past performance is no guarantee of future results) makes the Chiarot trade potentially look GREAT as Maurice has never made the playoffs in his first season coaching an NHL team.

 

 

 

 

Paul Maurice has always been one of my favourite coaches. I think he might be a great fit there BUT I hope I am dead wrong about that.  I expect Florida to get off to a great start next year, they will be well rested and the new coach honeymoon period. 

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