Habs Pre-season 2023-2024

[hankhab]

16 hours ago, DON said:

Annual golf outing today and Hughes is to do Q&A today sometime.

https://www.habsworld.net/2023/09/news-and-notes-from-mondays-golf-tournament/

 

"Juraj Slafkovsky

While some (myself included) have mentioned they’d like to see Slafkovsky spend some time in Laval, that doesn’t appear likely to be the case.  Head coach Martin St. Louis said that he would be surprised if the 2022 first-overall pick wasn’t with Montreal to start the season.  Slafkovsky also stated that he lost some weight over the summer which could help him skate a bit quicker in his second season."

 

BOOooo!

 

 

You know there is no magic formula for prospect development. If Slaf was in a situation where he'd be benched after the first turnover, having his confidence shattered by a vengeful coach, I'd want him out of Montreal as well. Marty seems determined to help him without shattering his confidence, so I believe we should keep an open mind here, it seems management all want the best for the kid.

[DON]

"I dont care where young player is now, more concerned where he will be in 5 years."; was Hughes babble.

But, i dont see it, seems more the opposite, wouldnt you say?

Be it Slafkovski, Guhle, Caufield, i know contract bonus's might be important for players; but playing injured young players to meet them (if was part of reason?), seem short-sighted.

Playing the crap out of Matheson in Nov. fresh off injury rehab also seemed dumb at the time (St Louis misplay?); but did seem to learn in jan return at least.

[DON]

Things are looking up.

 

Stu Cowan: Canadiens hoping they can sell patience to their fans | Montreal Gazette

 

"More than half the team will be age 25 or younger this season and there will be several solid prospects playing for the AHL’s Laval Rocket. The Canadiens also hold 21 picks at the next two NHL Drafts, including two first-rounders in 2025."

 

"...Gorton and Hughes are impressed that 40 players are already in town and skating with the main training camp not starting until next Wednesday, while the rookie camp will start this Wednesday."

 

[Habs Fan in Edmonton]

4 hours ago, hankhab said:

You know there is no magic formula for prospect development. If Slaf was in a situation where he'd be benched after the first turnover, having his confidence shattered by a vengeful coach, I'd want him out of Montreal as well. Marty seems determined to help him without shattering his confidence, so I believe we should keep an open mind here, it seems management all want the best for the kid.

 

Good post, I agree. There is no magic formula or one size fits all when it comes to player development. I tend to be in the camp that time in the AHL is a good thing but maybe that doesn't work for everyone. Hopefully they get it right with Slaf as you don't get the #1 pick often so you can't mess it up. 

[The Chicoutimi Cucumber]

29 minutes ago, Habs Fan in Edmonton said:

 

Good post, I agree. There is no magic formula or one size fits all when it comes to player development. I tend to be in the camp that time in the AHL is a good thing but maybe that doesn't work for everyone. Hopefully they get it right with Slaf as you don't get the #1 pick often so you can't mess it up. 

 

Well, I don’t know of any player whose development was compromised by spending time in the AHL. I suppose this could be the case if you have a really terrible coaching staff at that level; but if that’s so, then why keep that staff in place?

 

By contrast, bringing players up too soon is a higher-risk development strategy that can indeed go awry. Even the great Carey Price, who at least had one extended playoff in the A, barely survived that treatment. 

 

That being said, I’m not saying Slaf won’t overcome it and thrive. But last season he was clearly not NHL ready and that’s one reason he got hurt. 🤷‍♂️ Clearly it was not the right approach in terms of last season, anyway. 

 

54 minutes ago, DON said:

"I dont care where young player is now, more concerned where he will be in 5 years."; was Hughes babble.

But, i dont see it, seems more the opposite, wouldnt you say?

Be it Slafkovski, Guhle, Caufield, i know contract bonus's might be important for players; but playing injured young players to meet them (if was part of reason?), seem short-sighted.

Playing the crap out of Matheson in Nov. fresh off injury rehab also seemed dumb at the time (St Louis misplay?); but did seem to learn in jan return at least.

 

Something was mishandled regarding injuries last season, that’s for sure. They’ve made changes to the training staff. Whether those guys were scapegoats for what was really a management/coaching attitude will never be known.

[Habs Fan in Edmonton]

3 minutes ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said:

 

Well, I don’t know of any player whose development was compromised by spending time in the AHL. I suppose this could be the case if you have a really terrible coaching staff at that level; but if that’s so, then why keep that staff in place?

 

By contrast, bringing players up too soon is a higher-risk development strategy that can indeed go awry. Even the great Carey Price, who at least had one extended playoff in the A, barely survived that treatment. 

 

That being said, I’m not saying Slaf won’t overcome it and thrive. But last season he was clearly not NHL ready and that’s one reason he got hurt. 🤷‍♂️ Clearly it was not the right approach in terms of last season, anyway. 

 

 

Something was mishandled regarding injuries last season, that’s for sure. They’ve made changes to the training staff. Whether those guys were scapegoats for what was really a management/coaching attitude will never be known.

 

I don't disagree, maybe their thinking is that a skilled guy like Slaf would benefit more by spending time with Marty than anybody he would have in the AHL. I think Marty is a great development guy for skilled players, he certainly helped Caufield. 

 

When you lead the league in man/games lost due to injuries two years in a row than something has to change. Not sure what. 

[hab29RETIRED]

1 hour ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said:

 

Well, I don’t know of any player whose development was compromised by spending time in the AHL. I suppose this could be the case if you have a really terrible coaching staff at that level; but if that’s so, then why keep that staff in place?

 

By contrast, bringing players up too soon is a higher-risk development strategy that can indeed go awry. Even the great Carey Price, who at least had one extended playoff in the A, barely survived that treatment. 

 

That being said, I’m not saying Slaf won’t overcome it and thrive. But last season he was clearly not NHL ready and that’s one reason he got hurt. 🤷‍♂️ Clearly it was not the right approach in terms of last season, anyway. 

 

 

Something was mishandled regarding injuries last season, that’s for sure. They’ve made changes to the training staff. Whether those guys were scapegoats for what was really a management/coaching attitude will never be known.

Agree with everything. On your first point though - how long did MB keep his buddy the useless buddy Lefebve in place?? If I recall correctly- I don’t even think he ever did fire him! Didn’t he leave  on his own??   
 

with respect to your last point - I think the some of the twinning staff, and doctors should have been fired - who knows which ones. But totally agree, that decision to play guys still rests with Mgmt and coaching. I was listening to old Nilan podcast with Ted Nolan. When Nolan could see there was something wrong with Lafontaine, he talked to him, and after his discussion, he said he promised to keep him out of the lineup. Muckler and ownership came down hard on him and tried to force him to play Lafontaine. He refused. Later they found out about his concussion. So, quite often Mgmt makes those decisions to play guys and last year just seem stupid to let guys so they can achieve their bonuses???? Really?? There was also Monohan playing in Calgary when he was wearing a leg boot, before and after the game, and he was played!!! Made zero sense. I get letting guys grind it out for the cup. Inexcusable to let a guy play a game in December in that condition - especially when he was a guy they had wanted to move at the deadline. Shouldn’t have mattered that it was his first return game in Calgary.

[PMAC]

1 hour ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said:

 

Well, I don’t know of any player whose development was compromised by spending time in the AHL. I suppose this could be the case if you have a really terrible coaching staff at that level; but if that’s so, then why keep that staff in place?

 

By contrast, bringing players up too soon is a higher-risk development strategy that can indeed go awry. Even the great Carey Price, who at least had one extended playoff in the A, barely survived that treatment. 

 

That being said, I’m not saying Slaf won’t overcome it and thrive. But last season he was clearly not NHL ready and that’s one reason he got hurt. 🤷‍♂️ Clearly it was not the right approach in terms of last season, anyway. 

 

 

Something was mishandled regarding injuries last season, that’s for sure. They’ve made changes to the training staff. Whether those guys were scapegoats for what was really a management/coaching attitude will never be known.

Does the name Slyvain Lefebre ring any bells? It is definitely possible for poor AHL coaching to stymie development and for said coach to keep his job in defiance of all logic and common sense. 

[The Chicoutimi Cucumber]

9 minutes ago, PMAC said:

Does the name Slyvain Lefebre ring any bells? It is definitely possible for poor AHL coaching to stymie development and for said coach to keep his job in defiance of all logic and common sense. 

 

Right. But that's bad management. 

 

I won't accept a rationale from HuGo along the lines of "our AHL systems sucks, so we have to develop guys in the NHL." It's THEIR FAULT if the AHL system sucks, just as it was 100% Bergevin's fault for refusing to fire his completely incompetent chum Lefebvre. AHL incompetence is not a reason to risk players' development by throwing them into the NHL too soon. It is a reason to fix the AHL incompetence.

[dlbalr]

2 hours ago, DON said:

"...Gorton and Hughes are impressed that 40 players are already in town and skating with the main training camp not starting until next Wednesday, while the rookie camp will start this Wednesday."

 

This seemed to be a scripted talking point early on yesterday.  It's their own fault, to an extent, by scheduling the golf tournament (which carries mandatory attendance unless it's for family-related reasons) a week and a half before camp starts instead of the usual day or two before camp.  What did they think would happen, they'd fly in for golf, then go back home for a week?  Most wouldn't do that.  Instead, by making the golf tournament so early, they basically forced most of the players to come in early.

 

That's to take nothing away from the group that has legitimately stayed in Montreal for most of the offseason but between the golf tournament and 'captain's skates', this really wasn't anything noteworthy.

[DON]

Seems about right summery.

Which bad NHL teams are best positioned to win the No. 1 pick in 2024? - The Athletic

 

"The bottom line: Improved health and progression from young players should help, but I’m not convinced it’ll be enough for the Canadiens to leapfrog multiple teams in the East. They don’t have enough high-end offensive players, the power play is one of the worst in the league, they’re not going to defend well with an inexperienced back end, and the goaltending is competent but not good enough to bail them out. That’s OK, though, because this is going to be a young, exciting team for fans to follow."

[alfredoh2009]

16 minutes ago, DON said:

Seems about right summery.

Which bad NHL teams are best positioned to win the No. 1 pick in 2024? - The Athletic

 

"The bottom line: Improved health and progression from young players should help, but I’m not convinced it’ll be enough for the Canadiens to leapfrog multiple teams in the East. They don’t have enough high-end offensive players, the power play is one of the worst in the league, they’re not going to defend well with an inexperienced back end, and the goaltending is competent but not good enough to bail them out. That’s OK, though, because this is going to be a young, exciting team for fans to follow."

 

I agree, and this is one reason why I am considering adding more Sens games in my mix and skipping Habs games.

 

The "unicorns and rainbows" picture HugGort paints and MSL sells does not align with the projection of the team on ice and I am too emotional WRT how they are handling prospects.

 

I believe OTT will be less frustrating to watch that MTL this season, and since I don't want to judge the rebuild until next year, that may be better for my blood pressure

 

[Commandant]

Where are they painting a "unicorns and rainbows" picture.  The team has been pretty clear that this is still a rebuild.

 

Did you run out of stuff to shit on management and MSL with, so now you are making stuff up?

 

 

[alfredoh2009]

I just listened to the LVL coaching staff interviews this morning, ahead of the rookie camp, and they provided some insight into the organization's development philosophy: to allow players to show their strengths and for the development staff to "walk with them" as they develop

 

to my uneducated eyes, seems like an approach an agent would take versus a traditional coach like Jacques Lemaire. building a team based on the sum of all parts versus determining roles to fill and then selling the "team needs" to the players despite their preference/skill-set

 

I don't know if it is a recipe to win a Stanley cup, WPG, TOR and other underachieving teams come to mind. It will be fun to watch though. Let's hope for the best

 

Go Rocket Go!

[Habs Fan in Edmonton]

3 hours ago, alfredoh2009 said:

 

I agree, and this is one reason why I am considering adding more Sens games in my mix and skipping Habs games.

 

The "unicorns and rainbows" picture HugGort paints and MSL sells does not align with the projection of the team on ice and I am too emotional WRT how they are handling prospects.

 

I believe OTT will be less frustrating to watch that MTL this season, and since I don't want to judge the rebuild until next year, that may be better for my blood pressure

 

 

Skipping Habs games and adding more Sens??   WTF.  Going through a little pain and frustration is part of the process of being a FAN. 

[Commandant]

10 minutes ago, Habs Fan in Edmonton said:

 

Skipping Habs games and adding more Sens??   WTF.  Going through a little pain and frustration is part of the process of being a FAN. 

 

100% agreed

 

Going to watch a rival cause you don't want to watch the Habs?  What the heck is that

[alfredoh2009]

59 minutes ago, Habs Fan in Edmonton said:

 

Skipping Habs games and adding more Sens??   WTF.  Going through a little pain and frustration is part of the process of being a FAN. 

I don't know if I can stomach another pointless season if I cannot understand the team anymore. I just "don't get" the Habs aymore, I cannot clearly describe their identity, their values and their organization's goal.

 

If I want an aimless "fun to watch" team, might as well watch the sens.

[DON]

1 minute ago, alfredoh2009 said:

I don't know if I can stomach another pointless season if I cannot understand the team anymore. I just "don't get" the Habs aymore, I cannot clearly describe their identity, their values and their organization's goal.

 

If I want an aimless "fun to watch" team, might as well watch the sens.

[alfredoh2009]

5 minutes ago, DON said:

yeah, Mr, Potatohead is having an existential crisis again

 

bring on the peeler and cutting board....

 

[The Chicoutimi Cucumber]

34 minutes ago, alfredoh2009 said:

I don't know if I can stomach another pointless season if I cannot understand the team anymore. I just "don't get" the Habs aymore, I cannot clearly describe their identity, their values and their organization's goal.

 

If I want an aimless "fun to watch" team, might as well watch the sens.

 

I think my response to this post would depend on whether or not you were among those calling for a Tank Job for all those years. I honestly don’t remember.

 

If you’ve been calling for/demanding a tank and rebuild, then this attitude is exactly what bugs me about some tankologists. They want a rebuild, then complain when a team goes through three or four years of being terrible.

 

On the other hand, if you were never an energetic proponent of tanking, then your attitude is at least consistent. That said, the Sens are festering scumbags that no Habs fan should cheer for, so there’s that.

[alfredoh2009]

3 minutes ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said:

 

I think my response to this post would depend on whether or not you were among those calling for a Tank Job for all those years. I honestly don’t remember.

 

If you’ve been calling for/demanding a tank and rebuild, then this attitude is exactly what bugs me about some tankologists. They want a rebuild, then complain when a team goes through three or four years of being terrible.

 

On the other hand, if you were never an energetic proponent of tanking, then your attitude is at least consistent. That said, the Sens are festering scumbags that no Habs fan should cheer for, so there’s that.

I agreed with HugGort’s mandate to tank but became disillusioned when they kept playing injured players to win meaningless games 

I have applauded most of the trades and some of the staff hires and to be fair I’ve always said I would wait until next season to judge HugGort’s work.

That being said, I miss watching hockey for the fun of it and they enjoyment of watching a team I choose to cheer for win.

 

My daughter’s boyfriend is a Sens fan and this is my hometown… so I am warming up to the renewed life in the team. 

[Prime Minister Koivu]

5 hours ago, alfredoh2009 said:

 

I agree, and this is one reason why I am considering adding more Sens games in my mix and skipping Habs games.

 

The "unicorns and rainbows" picture HugGort paints and MSL sells does not align with the projection of the team on ice and I am too emotional WRT how they are handling prospects.

 

I believe OTT will be less frustrating to watch that MTL this season, and since I don't want to judge the rebuild until next year, that may be better for my blood pressure

 

Reconsider friend

 

You will miss Slafkovsky scoring 20

 

You will miss Caufield scoring 50

 

You will miss Suzuki putting up 90 points. 
 

You will miss Gallagher getting injured 

 

 

[alfredoh2009]

1 hour ago, Prime Minister Koivu said:

Reconsider friend

 

You will miss Slafkovsky scoring 20

 

You will miss Caufield scoring 50

 

You will miss Suzuki putting up 90 points. 
 

You will miss Gallagher getting injured 

 

 

More like Suzuki getting less and less effective as the season wears him down 

 

Caufield hitting 30g by mid-season and the getting hurt again 

 

Dach flip/flopping with Anderson and Newhook wing/center and never finding his game

Guhle having a bad year, and the Habs cycling multiple LDs o n his spot

 

No kids being demoted and loosing some bottom-6 vets on waivers then suffering through multiple callous of AHL fillers

 

Missing the playoffs by half a dozen points but drafting out of the lottery 

[alfredoh2009]

Let’s stay positive

 

when is the first pre-season game, this weekend or next week?

[Prime Minister Koivu]

1 hour ago, alfredoh2009 said:

More like Suzuki getting less and less effective as the season wears him down 

 

Caufield hitting 30g by mid-season and the getting hurt again 

 

Dach flip/flopping with Anderson and Newhook wing/center and never finding his game

Guhle having a bad year, and the Habs cycling multiple LDs o n his spot

 

No kids being demoted and loosing some bottom-6 vets on waivers then suffering through multiple callous of AHL fillers

 

Missing the playoffs by half a dozen points but drafting out of the lottery 

If all of this bad stuff happens then surely we are a lottery pick. 
 

Perhaps this is the year that things go well for us. Perhaps we push for a playoff spot. Perhaps Dach finds chemistry with Newhook and they become league leaders. Perhaps Gallagher scores 30 and doesn’t miss much time. 
 

Perhaps 🤔