Commandant Posted October 20, 2023 Share Posted October 20, 2023 Every team has periods in the offensive zone that dont result in goals. While the Habs are not one of the leagues highest scoring teams they arent one of the worst at 5v5 either. They are around middle of the pack. The PP has been amongst the leagues worst though. And it is different strategies for both. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GHT120 Posted October 20, 2023 Share Posted October 20, 2023 10 hours ago, Commandant said: Every team has periods in the offensive zone that dont result in goals. While the Habs are not one of the leagues highest scoring teams they arent one of the worst at 5v5 either. They are around middle of the pack. The PP has been amongst the leagues worst though. And it is different strategies for both. Agreed ... Montreal is currently tied for 12th in GF/Gm (3.33) but are 26th in PP% (9%) ... the only real surprise is that there are SIX teams that are worse, and three that have yet to score one PPG ... Anaheim (9 opportunities), St Louis (9) and Washington (8) ... why do I fear a PP Hat Trick by Ovie tomorrow night. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Chicoutimi Cucumber Posted October 20, 2023 Share Posted October 20, 2023 So IF the Habs are actually a strong team at 5-on-5… …and IF the main reason special teams suck basset hound balls is that they have not been an area of focus for the coaching staff… …is it possible to infer that the Habs are **actually** a decent team, talent-wise? That is, is our problem that we have a bunch of kids who have not been coached to be effective on special teams? Rather than, say, a lack of talent. Or am I overthinking it - is this a distinction without a difference? 🤔 (I ask because, for most of my life as a fan, I’ve been exposed to this ideology that 5-on-5 play is what reveals your “real” team. Heck, I remember under Jacques Martin, the game plans were explicitly predicated on winning via goaltending and special teams, and a lot of observers dismissed those teams as not actually good teams precisely because they weren’t great 5-on-5. So if this group is strong 5-on-5, what does that tell us about what kind of hockey team we actually have?) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GHT120 Posted October 20, 2023 Share Posted October 20, 2023 33 minutes ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said: So IF the Habs are actually a strong team at 5-on-5… …and IF the main reason special teams suck basset hound balls is that they have not been an area of focus for the coaching staff… …is it possible to infer that the Habs are **actually** a decent team, talent-wise? That is, is our problem that we have a bunch of kids who have not been coached to be effective on special teams? Rather than, say, a lack of talent. Or am I overthinking it - is this a distinction without a difference? 🤔 (I ask because, for most of my life as a fan, I’ve been exposed to this ideology that 5-on-5 play is what reveals your “real” team. Heck, I remember under Jacques Martin, the game plans were explicitly predicated on winning via goaltending and special teams, and a lot of observers dismissed those teams as not actually good teams precisely because they weren’t great 5-on-5. So if this group is strong 5-on-5, what does that tell us about what kind of hockey team we actually have?) I-M-O ... no ... at very least not yet. Their 10 goals come from 6 players ... one each from Ylonen and Evans, neither of whom I see as even a 3rd line player post-rebuild, if on the roster ... two from Tanner Pearson, who I seriously doubt is looking at the 55 goal season his "pace" suggests ... and three from Alex Newhook, who will hopefully turn out to be a legit Top-6 scorer but realistically remains a largely unknown entity. Caufield's two goals are obviously from a legit goal scorer ... Anderson, Matheson, Monahan (who has 1) and Suzuki are really the only healthy players I-M-O it is reasonable to EXPECT to be scoring ... in addition to Newhook, Slafkovsky and RHP are hopefully going to be regular scorers to some degree; but what degree is unknown. I expect the Habs to do better than last season's 2.77 g/gm but not to continue their current pace. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DON Posted October 23, 2023 Share Posted October 23, 2023 Just couldnt put the Caps away on the PP, same ol as past while now (i am looking at you Burrows!). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomh009 Posted October 23, 2023 Share Posted October 23, 2023 16 minutes ago, DON said: Just couldnt put the Caps away on the PP, same ol as past while now (i am looking at you Burrows!). The power play was working better, and they did score on the PP, albeit only once. St-Louis has said that he and Burrows are now working together to improve the PP, that it is not only on Burrows. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GHT120 Posted October 23, 2023 Share Posted October 23, 2023 11 minutes ago, tomh009 said: The power play was working better, and they did score on the PP, albeit only once. St-Louis has said that he and Burrows are now working together to improve the PP, that it is not only on Burrows. But it was his job and he did it so poorly that the head coach now has to step in and help (take over?) ... seems like it would be better to replace him with someone who can actually contribute and, ideally, allow MSL to stop doing the work of an assistant. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prime Minister Koivu Posted October 23, 2023 Share Posted October 23, 2023 I frankly think the umbrella style doesn’t work for this team, even though it’s the popular thing right now. My evidence is that our PP stinks and has for YEARS Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomh009 Posted October 23, 2023 Share Posted October 23, 2023 1 hour ago, GHT120 said: But it was his job and he did it so poorly that the head coach now has to step in and help (take over?) ... seems like it would be better to replace him with someone who can actually contribute and, ideally, allow MSL to stop doing the work of an assistant. Possibly. We don't really know how St-Louis prefers to work with his assistants. He has said, though, that last year's focus was on improving even-strength play, so there is that data point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commandant Posted October 23, 2023 Share Posted October 23, 2023 2 hours ago, Prime Minister Koivu said: I frankly think the umbrella style doesn’t work for this team, even though it’s the popular thing right now. My evidence is that our PP stinks and has for YEARS I still think the biggest issue is the slingshot zone entry. On their worst pps, they don't even get setup most of the time. I also think that an umbrella can work if they establish more than one way to score goals. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DON Posted October 23, 2023 Share Posted October 23, 2023 I dont think NHL PPs are a higher % with that stupid looking drop pass BS these days are they? I assume some stat shows drop-pass works or worked for some teams entries? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IN THE HEARTS OF MEN Posted October 23, 2023 Share Posted October 23, 2023 1 hour ago, Commandant said: I still think the biggest issue is the slingshot zone entry. On their worst pps, they don't even get setup most of the time. I also think that an umbrella can work if they establish more than one way to score goals. Slingshot is a huge issue... it was slightly more effective vs Wash but is still a mess. Once they do gain the zone, they have improved with puck and palyer movement. Faceoff win% has been strong so far overall which goes a long way. I still think the next decision ro be made is removing Anderson for Slav on first unit and to play on the right boards for Suzuki and move Suzuki to bumper role ala Point or even Caufield there and let Suzuki play the left side one timer. We need a one timer option on both sides personally. Matheson up top and Monahan low. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IN THE HEARTS OF MEN Posted October 23, 2023 Share Posted October 23, 2023 4 hours ago, Prime Minister Koivu said: I frankly think the umbrella style doesn’t work for this team, even though it’s the popular thing right now. My evidence is that our PP stinks and has for YEARS I think its about who's QB'ing and from where on the ice. That's why I would want to switch Suzuki for Slav and his right side one timer (first team PP will help his progression and confidence),as well as give Matheson two one timer options from both sides of the ice. Suzuki and Caufield left side one timer and bumper. Monahan circulating out of both corners. It also gives us the option of walking off the Wall into the slot both sides of the ice now and doesn't really change passing lanes but in fact opens more lanes up. With Suzuki on the right, he usually walks down the wall to shoot a wrister (which is less effective) or find a passing lane. Options are endless this way... Again, see TB as the poster team for this... and I think we have these tools. Copy and paste their players Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commandant Posted October 23, 2023 Share Posted October 23, 2023 1 hour ago, DON said: I dont think NHL PPs are a higher % with that stupid looking drop pass BS these days are they? I assume some stat shows drop-pass works or worked for some teams entries? It can be done effectively Teams that use it effectively 1) generate more speed than the Habs 2) Use it as one of several plays to gain the line, they do not use it near as often as the Habs do. The Habs problem with the slingshot, is the same issue when they set up Weber/Caufield. They only have one strategy and other teams can see it coming a mile away. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DON Posted October 23, 2023 Share Posted October 23, 2023 Just seems Anderson will storm up the ice and then stop dead at opposing blue-line and wait for Suzuki to dipsydoodle through neutral zone, across blue line and then hand off to Caufield or Matheson. Cant they come up with a plan B or C. Like simply dump it into a corner with 2 Hab forecheckers flying across the blue line (Anderson/Slafkovski or the like) outnumbering opposing d-man in corner. KISS! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IN THE HEARTS OF MEN Posted October 23, 2023 Share Posted October 23, 2023 Timing is everything as well, and seems the pass comes late, is sometimes off the mark... and definitely used way to often Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DON Posted October 24, 2023 Share Posted October 24, 2023 15 hours ago, IN THE HEARTS OF MEN said: Timing is everything as well, and seems the pass comes late, is sometimes off the mark... and definitely used way to often Newhook at least had more speed than Suzuki coming into zone on one PP i noticed and it worked. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alfredoh2009 Posted October 24, 2023 Share Posted October 24, 2023 23 minutes ago, DON said: Newhook at least had more speed than Suzuki coming into zone on one PP i noticed and it worked. I like what I have seen from Newhook, I have not watch the games in full. He is as advertised, I hope he can develop chemistry with Anderson. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Chicoutimi Cucumber Posted October 24, 2023 Share Posted October 24, 2023 16 hours ago, DON said: Just seems Anderson will storm up the ice and then stop dead at opposing blue-line and wait for Suzuki to dipsydoodle through neutral zone, across blue line and then hand off to Caufield or Matheson. Cant they come up with a plan B or C. Like simply dump it into a corner with 2 Hab forecheckers flying across the blue line (Anderson/Slafkovski or the like) outnumbering opposing d-man in corner. KISS! Anderson is what he is…I’m not sure why people seem to be “discovering” his limitations or acting surprised? It’s not like he’s 22 with untapped potential. MSL’s attempt to make him think the game differently is something a coach should have done 10 years ago. But, just as Eric Lindros was never taught to keep his head up because he was so huge his junior coaches never bothered, so is Josh Anderson so big and fast that no one ever seems to have sat him down and insisted that he learn to use his teammates. That has to happen during a guy’s formative years…it’s too late now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dlbalr Posted October 24, 2023 Share Posted October 24, 2023 2 hours ago, DON said: Newhook at least had more speed than Suzuki coming into zone on one PP i noticed and it worked. If you watch other teams do the drop pass, it's generally done with speed, giving the new carrier lots of momentum and the defence less time to get set. Montreal seems to do it robotically and as slow as possible which likely takes away from its effectiveness. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GHT120 Posted October 24, 2023 Share Posted October 24, 2023 5 hours ago, alfredoh2009 said: I like what I have seen from Newhook, I have not watch the games in full. He is as advertised, I hope he can develop chemistry with Anderson. Has anyone EVER developed "chemistry" with Anderson? I fear MSL is trying to teach an old dog new tricks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Habs Fan in Edmonton Posted October 24, 2023 Share Posted October 24, 2023 4 hours ago, dlbalr said: If you watch other teams do the drop pass, it's generally done with speed, giving the new carrier lots of momentum and the defence less time to get set. Montreal seems to do it robotically and as slow as possible which likely takes away from its effectiveness. Speed and momentum are key for the drop pass. It generally works well for Edmonton but not every team has a McDavid to drop the puck to. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hab29RETIRED Posted October 24, 2023 Share Posted October 24, 2023 1 hour ago, GHT120 said: Has anyone EVER developed "chemistry" with Anderson? I fear MSL is trying to teach an old dog new tricks. I think he is a guy that if he can be moved for a good return we should do it. I like his size, speed, grit and intensity he brings, but for what it translates into production wise, it just isn’t worth $5m+ on a multi-year deal. I was hopeful with all the reports how MSL was “teaching” him hockey sense, where to go, and when to get there, and how good he looked in training camp. but we’re back to him not really fitting on any the lines he is on. I think he lacks the hockey IQ to be anything more than the odd 3rd wheel on any line he is on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GHT120 Posted October 24, 2023 Share Posted October 24, 2023 3 minutes ago, hab29RETIRED said: I think he is a guy that if he can be moved for a good return we should do it. I like his size, speed, grit and intensity he brings, but for what it translates into production wise, it just isn’t worth $5m+ on a multi-year deal. I was hopeful with all the reports how MSL was “teaching” him hockey sense, where to go, and when to get there, and how good he looked in training camp. but we’re back to him not really leaving on the lines he is on. I think he lacks the hockey IQ to be anything more than the odd 3rd wheel on any line he is on. I agree ... in this case "the whole does not equal the sum of the parts". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prime Minister Koivu Posted October 24, 2023 Share Posted October 24, 2023 1 hour ago, hab29RETIRED said: I think he is a guy that if he can be moved for a good return we should do it. I like his size, speed, grit and intensity he brings, but for what it translates into production wise, it just isn’t worth $5m+ on a multi-year deal. I was hopeful with all the reports how MSL was “teaching” him hockey sense, where to go, and when to get there, and how good he looked in training camp. but we’re back to him not really fitting on any the lines he is on. I think he lacks the hockey IQ to be anything more than the odd 3rd wheel on any line he is on. 1 hour ago, GHT120 said: I agree ... in this case "the whole does not equal the sum of the parts". I am an advocate for trading Anderson largely due to his injury history because of his style of play. That said I think Anderson is made for the playoffs. His speed and power game along with that shot is to be reckoned with. Habs need to manage his minutes a bit I think and he shouldn’t be on the PP Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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