GHT120 Posted April 25 Share Posted April 25 11 minutes ago, alfredoh2009 said: you are right, I was surprised by that one but the kid is really good. The names on @GHT120 's list had too many old names, and I woul dbe surprised Koivu JR is favoured by this management team. But those names had nothing to do with "sentimentalism towards the history of the franchise or are any interest in dipping into nepotism" ... nor did I ever suggest that Koivu Jr would or should in any way be favoured by HuGo et al ... he had been described as "81st, so a NHL long shot depth player" and the names were just intended to point out that picks in the early-80s have panned out in the past and that is why teams still draft instead of just passing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DON Posted April 25 Share Posted April 25 Lots of examples but 80-90% 3rd rd+ do not make NHL But like; Datsyuk 6th round 171st pick or Markov 6th round 162nd pick, can find gold late, just highly unlikely thats all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commandant Posted April 25 Share Posted April 25 There is no evidence to suggest this management would or wouldn't like Koivu in 3rd or 4th. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alfredoh2009 Posted April 25 Share Posted April 25 4 hours ago, GHT120 said: But those names had nothing to do with "sentimentalism towards the history of the franchise or are any interest in dipping into nepotism" ... nor did I ever suggest that Koivu Jr would or should in any way be favoured by HuGo et al ... he had been described as "81st, so a NHL long shot depth player" and the names were just intended to point out that picks in the early-80s have panned out in the past and that is why teams still draft instead of just passing. I wanted the Habs to pick David Spacek last year. I still do not believe HughGort cares much for nepo-babies. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commandant Posted April 25 Share Posted April 25 1 minute ago, alfredoh2009 said: I wanted the Habs to pick David Spacek last year. I still do not believe HughGort cares much for nepo-babies. You aren't drafting players cause they are nepo-babies. They'd be taking Atsu in the 3rd or 4th round cause he's BPA. At some point in the draft, he is the best player on the board. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomh009 Posted April 25 Share Posted April 25 1 hour ago, Commandant said: You aren't drafting players cause they are nepo-babies. They'd be taking Atsu in the 3rd or 4th round cause he's BPA. At some point in the draft, he is the best player on the board. Right. You wouldn't pick Aatos Koivu because you expect him to be a clone of Saku. He is his own player, and he'll be picked on his own merits. The only significant thing you get from that relationship is that you might have a better idea of the player's attitude or mental processes, based on how well you know his family members. But that's just another data point, not anything more. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DON Posted April 26 Share Posted April 26 U18 prelim games Cole Eiserman 3g, Cole Hutson 1g1a (in 9-0 game). Helenius 1a Iginla/Greentree 1a Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commandant Posted April 26 Share Posted April 26 Three points for Helenius today Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Habs Fan in Edmonton Posted April 26 Author Share Posted April 26 59 minutes ago, Commandant said: Three points for Helenius today Plus Iginla scored 2 goals for Canada today. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GHT120 Posted April 26 Share Posted April 26 T-minus 14 days Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeLassister Posted April 26 Share Posted April 26 If Kotkaniemi teached us something, it's not to take too much from the results at this U18 tournament. Guessing the scouts go there to evaluate some specific skills and character aspect of players' game more than how they actually perform. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomh009 Posted April 26 Share Posted April 26 1 hour ago, JoeLassister said: If Kotkaniemi teached us something, it's not to take too much from the results at this U18 tournament. Guessing the scouts go there to evaluate some specific skills and character aspect of players' game more than how they actually perform. It's just another data point. You should never make a decision based on a single tournament, but it can still supplement the information you have gathered otherwise. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commandant Posted April 26 Share Posted April 26 1 hour ago, JoeLassister said: If Kotkaniemi teached us something, it's not to take too much from the results at this U18 tournament. Guessing the scouts go there to evaluate some specific skills and character aspect of players' game more than how they actually perform. Of course its not just the under 18. You look at their entire body of work including WHL and La Liga seasons. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DON Posted April 26 Share Posted April 26 Future Considerations: Scouting top players at U18 World Championship (sportsnet.ca) "Konsta Helenius, Forward, Team Finland On Day 1 of the tournament, he was one of the more visibly active players among the teams present. He plays quickly and fast. ... NHL Projection: Top-line speed forward, reliable offensive producer at even strength and on the power-play." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomh009 Posted April 27 Share Posted April 27 I think that's the first projection I've seen of him being a top-line forward. Apart from the Commandant, that is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Habs Fan in Edmonton Posted April 27 Author Share Posted April 27 An update from U18 after day 2. Future Considerations: Scouting top players at U18 World Championship (msn.com) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Helmethead Posted April 27 Share Posted April 27 Liking what I’m reading.. https://theathletic.com/5435518/2024/04/27/konsta-helenius-2024-nhl-draft/?source=user_shared_article Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Habs Fan in Edmonton Posted April 27 Author Share Posted April 27 1 hour ago, Helmethead said: Liking what I’m reading.. https://theathletic.com/5435518/2024/04/27/konsta-helenius-2024-nhl-draft/?source=user_shared_article There's another poster here that really likes him. LOL Helenius seems to have a really well rounded skill set, excellent skater, hard worker, high IQ. It blows my mind that in a couple mock drafts he isn't even listed in the top 30. I think this looks like the kind of draft where it would be great to have a couple picks in the top 15 to grab that guy that unexpectedly falls. San Jose already has a couple picks in the top 15 (thanks Pittsburgh), maybe they could be persuaded to trade their 2nd 1st rounder for the Habs Winnipeg pick (plus other assets of course). But that rarely happens. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DON Posted April 27 Share Posted April 27 Helenius averaged 8th for this group and lowest was 19th. Ranked #8 by CONSOLIDATED RANKINGRanked #12 by ELITEPROSPECTS.COMRanked #8 by TSN/BOB McKENZIERanked #7 by TSN/CRAIG BUTTONRanked #19 by THN/FERRARIRanked #9 by THN/KENNEDYRanked #8 by MCKEEN'S HOCKEYRanked #9 by FLOHOCKEY/CHRIS PETERSRanked #4 by FCHOCKEYRanked #12 by DAILY FACEOFFRanked #3 by NHL CENTRAL SCOUTING (EU Skaters)Ranked #11 by ISS HOCKEYRanked #7 by SPORTSNET/COSENTINORanked #8 by SPORTSNET/BUKALARanked #3 by RECRUIT SCOUTINGRanked #8 by DOBBERPROSPECTSRanked #7 by DRAFT PROSPECTS HOCKEYRanked #17 by SMAHT SCOUTING Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GHT120 Posted April 27 Share Posted April 27 19 minutes ago, DON said: Helenius averaged 8th for this group and lowest was 19th. Ranked #8 by CONSOLIDATED RANKINGRanked #12 by ELITEPROSPECTS.COMRanked #8 by TSN/BOB McKENZIERanked #7 by TSN/CRAIG BUTTONRanked #19 by THN/FERRARIRanked #9 by THN/KENNEDYRanked #8 by MCKEEN'S HOCKEYRanked #9 by FLOHOCKEY/CHRIS PETERSRanked #4 by FCHOCKEYRanked #12 by DAILY FACEOFFRanked #3 by NHL CENTRAL SCOUTING (EU Skaters)Ranked #11 by ISS HOCKEYRanked #7 by SPORTSNET/COSENTINORanked #8 by SPORTSNET/BUKALARanked #3 by RECRUIT SCOUTINGRanked #8 by DOBBERPROSPECTSRanked #7 by DRAFT PROSPECTS HOCKEYRanked #17 by SMAHT SCOUTING I always exclude NHL Central Scouting (four separate lists renders their ranking useless I-M-O for this sort of purpose) and the highest and lowest ranking ... Not much difference ... drops him to 9th ... still below where the Habs likely draft but high enough that it would be difficult to "trade/trade-up" for a pick to grab him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Habs Fan in Edmonton Posted April 27 Author Share Posted April 27 23 minutes ago, GHT120 said: drops him to 9th ... still below where the Habs likely draft but high enough that it would be difficult to "trade/trade-up" for a pick to grab him. Agreed, likely too high for the Habs to be able to trade up high enough to get another pick to grab him. I am thinking if you could get another pick at say 15 then you could grab someone like a Liam Greentree perhaps. I just hope the Habs can get an impact forward at 5. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomh009 Posted April 27 Share Posted April 27 1 hour ago, Habs Fan in Edmonton said: Agreed, likely too high for the Habs to be able to trade up high enough to get another pick to grab him. I am thinking if you could get another pick at say 15 then you could grab someone like a Liam Greentree perhaps. I just hope the Habs can get an impact forward at 5. Each team will have their own ranking, though, so even if the lists above are credible, every team will be different, even assuming they pick the best player available. So, the Habs could possibly rank Helenius at 5, another team could rank him at 4, or all the top teams rank him outside the top 15. We'll find out soon what position the Habs actually pick in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Habs Fan in Edmonton Posted April 27 Author Share Posted April 27 35 minutes ago, tomh009 said: Each team will have their own ranking, though, so even if the lists above are credible, every team will be different, even assuming they pick the best player available. Of course, that's what makes the draft so interesting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomh009 Posted April 27 Share Posted April 27 1 minute ago, Habs Fan in Edmonton said: Of course, that's what makes the draft so interesting. And hard to predict who will be available! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hab29RETIRED Posted April 27 Share Posted April 27 1 hour ago, Habs Fan in Edmonton said: Agreed, likely too high for the Habs to be able to trade up high enough to get another pick to grab him. I am thinking if you could get another pick at say 15 then you could grab someone like a Liam Greentree perhaps. I just hope the Habs can get an impact forward at 5. Getting two picks in the top 12-15 would be ideal. Would probably allow us a SLIGHT chance to get one of the following combos: -Helenius/ Eiserman or Iginla -Parekh Eiserman or Iginla ideal situation is we win the lottery AND trade up to the 10-12 pick range. If are lucky enough to win the lottery, I think we’d be one year away from having the pieces not only to be a playoff team, but two years away from being a legit contender. This draft is crucial, can’t have a KK type Fxck up. There are some seriously good forward prospects this year, and if we can get the right guy it make make up for passing on Leonard last year. I would have preferred taking Leonard last year and Parekh this year. Irrespective of the draft, we need at least two forwards in addition to a healthy Dach to make meaningful progress next year. I doubt if there is anyone we draft that makes a huge difference next year. That’s why as much as I’d like us to move our Winnipeg pick and young D and/or other picks, to get a higher first round pick, I think Hughes will probably move the first pick in another Dach/Newhook type deal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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