Habs Fan in Edmonton Posted November 4 Share Posted November 4 6 minutes ago, DON said: Most on here predicted a lottery finish and no playoffs. And 0% thought would win the cup, safe bet i think. Currently tied for 29th. Overall we are 1 point out of last but only 4 points out of 13th. It's a log jam but it's early. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GHT120 Posted November 4 Share Posted November 4 1 hour ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said: MSL isn't doing himself any favours by not mentioning it every chance he gets - because, to me, a lot of what we're seeing can be explained by players struggling to apply the new system. But he tends to not throw his players under the bus. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Habs Fan in Edmonton Posted November 4 Share Posted November 4 2 minutes ago, GHT120 said: But he tends to not throw his players under the bus. Agreed and that is the correct long term approach to take. He doesn't want to lose the room. Blaming the players would be a sign of desperation and would not look good on him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Chicoutimi Cucumber Posted November 5 Share Posted November 5 3 hours ago, GHT120 said: But he tends to not throw his players under the bus. 3 hours ago, Habs Fan in Edmonton said: Agreed and that is the correct long term approach to take. He doesn't want to lose the room. Blaming the players would be a sign of desperation and would not look good on him. Totally a minor point, but you can reference 'learning the system' without throwing any individual under the bus. You just say general things like 'we still need to work on internalizing the new system a bit,' that kind of stuff. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DON Posted November 5 Share Posted November 5 Cant hurt i guess. "On Monday, the Canadiens brought in former NHL centreman Marc Bureau to work with the team’s centres for more than 30 minutes on faceoffs before the start of practice in Brossard." Canadiens bring in former NHLer Marc Bureau to help with faceoffs | Montreal Gazette “Honestly, I don’t have concern,” Canadiens head coach Martin St. Louis said after practice Monday in Brossard when asked what his biggest concern is about his team so far. “I just got to stay the course with this transition in what we’re doing right now. We’re learning to win and, obviously, there’s been a lot of focus on the defensive side of things and the risk-taking. So I’m not concerned and I know exactly our offensive game has dipped and I know why. So I’m not concerned. It’s a little bit of see-saw a little bit and we got to find that right balance. … That’s where we are.” Stu Cowan: St. Louis isn't concerned about Canadiens, but he should be | Montreal Gazette Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prime Minister Koivu Posted November 6 Share Posted November 6 Room for RHP? See ya next year Kapanen 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DON Posted November 6 Share Posted November 6 Good, he got just 7:54 icetime yesterday, so i like it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prime Minister Koivu Posted November 6 Share Posted November 6 5 minutes ago, DON said: Good, he got just 7:54 icetime yesterday, so i like it. I wanted Kapanen to get one game as the second line centre to see what he can do with good NHL players. Alas, he is indeed better playing big minutes in Europe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Habs Fan in Edmonton Posted November 6 Share Posted November 6 I like it too. Saw enough of him to know he has a future with the Habs. Would rather see him play big minutes in the SHL than 8 minutes with the Habs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alfredoh2009 Posted November 7 Share Posted November 7 great summary of Kapanen's situation/options: https://www.habsworld.net/2024/11/habs-made-the-right-call-by-returning-oliver-kapanen-to-shl/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DON Posted November 7 Share Posted November 7 Most seem pleased with move, now hope Kapanen lights up the SHL. Oliver Kapanen returns to Sweden to play more | Radio-Canada "It's still too early to tell," said St-Louis. If you had asked me that 12 or 13 months ago, I would have said it's a centre. But we won't really know until Dach has fully regained his game." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lanes World Posted November 7 Share Posted November 7 I always forget how young Dach still is Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prime Minister Koivu Posted November 8 Share Posted November 8 Habs Reditt guy posted this picture of Caufield’s first team photo. Picture made me laugh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BCHabnut Posted November 8 Share Posted November 8 So, when do we stand back and say, "in the mix." Isn't a reality this year. Game 20? Game 30 or 40? I'm ready to call it now. My hope for this season is development of key players. Mostly Ghule, Hutson, Struble, an Barron. If Barron or Mailloux can tighten up their own end, I'm still excited about the future. But for now I think it's time to switch from, let's learn how to win, back to let's learn the game and develop individuals. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomh009 Posted November 8 Author Share Posted November 8 ... and let's learn the system! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Habs Fan in Edmonton Posted November 8 Share Posted November 8 1 hour ago, BCHabnut said: So, when do we stand back and say, "in the mix." Isn't a reality this year. Game 20? Game 30 or 40? I'm ready to call it now. My hope for this season is development of key players. Mostly Ghule, Hutson, Struble, an Barron. If Barron or Mailloux can tighten up their own end, I'm still excited about the future. But for now I think it's time to switch from, let's learn how to win, back to let's learn the game and develop individuals. Way too early to call it. I think you can develop individuals and win at the same time. They are not mutually exclusive events. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GHT120 Posted November 8 Share Posted November 8 1 hour ago, BCHabnut said: So, when do we stand back and say, "in the mix." Isn't a reality this year. Game 20? Game 30 or 40? I'm ready to call it now. My hope for this season is development of key players. Mostly Ghule, Hutson, Struble, an Barron. If Barron or Mailloux can tighten up their own end, I'm still excited about the future. But for now I think it's time to switch from, let's learn how to win, back to let's learn the game and develop individuals. Given that the plan was to replace Monahan by a player coming off (essentially) a full-season injury (Dach) and they moved a solid 3rd pairing defenceman to make room for youngsters with at most 120 NHL games played, I felt that was always the base plan ... getting Laine inspired some hope of "in the mix" but then that went I gave up "in the mix" when Laine went down. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prime Minister Koivu Posted November 8 Share Posted November 8 Outstanding article about the different defensive systems used in the NHL. Deep dive, with video and evidence of why Montreal struggles with Hybrid defence. Edmonton switched to hybrid defence at the beginning of last season and that led to a coaching change and subsequent change back to zone defence. Go back to zone defence Marty. Habs were one of the best teams 5 on 5 and now we have brutally awful defensive and offensive stats. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DON Posted November 8 Share Posted November 8 Is Matheson the worst defender on the team? He was responsible for several 2-1s yesterday Felt bad for Guhle, if wasnt Matheson, it was Newhook or some other forward screwing up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GHT120 Posted November 8 Share Posted November 8 12 minutes ago, Prime Minister Koivu said: Edmonton switched to hybrid defence at the beginning of last season and that led to a coaching change and subsequent change back to zone defence. Go back to zone defence Marty. Habs were one of the best teams 5 on 5 and now we have brutally awful defensive and offensive stats. Edmonton was in "win now" mode and the change was logical ... if MSL, HuGo et al believe that the hybrid system is what they want to be playing when they "exit" the rebuild and start "win now" mode then keep the system and help the youngsters learn it. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prime Minister Koivu Posted November 8 Share Posted November 8 1 minute ago, GHT120 said: Edmonton was in "win now" mode and the change was logical ... if MSL, HuGo et al believe that the hybrid system is what they want to be playing when they "exit" the rebuild and start "win now" mode then keep the system and help the youngsters learn it. I think Habs management is chasing a trend here. 4 out of 5 of the last cup winners used hybrid defence. That doesn’t make that system a magic bullet necessarily Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Chicoutimi Cucumber Posted November 8 Share Posted November 8 In a way, this is a test of organizational sang-froid. You made a change. The team is struggling to adapt to it. If you truly believe that this is the way the team will need to play when it’s time to win, then NOW is the time to go through those growing pains. The last thing we want is to have our Cup window opening, then regress because we flipped the system. But the other consideration is: what if the adaptation struggles lead to a cascading sense of negativity and a loss of confidence among the young players who keep failing at it? Does that then grind against your wider organizational goals of player development? And there is a third factor. MSL seems very good at working with individual players, but what if he is just not very good at communicating/teaching systems? In this case, have you made the right decision, but left in place the wrong guy to execute it? Hard to sort all this out. But I would say, 14 games is maybe not enough. The Oil went back to their earlier system because they were in an absolute win-now crisis. That ain’t us. Bare minimum, I think the Habs and MSL need to do a better job of communicating that adjusting to the new system is a ‘process’ and that there will continue to be growing pains for a while yet. Get ahead of the fan/media narrative that the sky is falling. Really, they should have been emphasizing this from day one, rather than saying we were going to ‘be in the mix.’ 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prime Minister Koivu Posted November 8 Share Posted November 8 10 minutes ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said: In a way, this is a test of organizational sang-froid. You made a change. The team is struggling to adapt to it. If you truly believe that this is the way the team will need to play when it’s time to win, then NOW is the time to go through those growing pains. The last thing we want is to have our Cup window opening, then regress because we flipped the system. But the other consideration is: what if the adaptation struggles lead to a cascading sense of negativity and a loss of confidence among the young players who keep failing at it? Does that then grind against your wider organizational goals of player development? And there is a third factor. MSL seems very good at working with individual players, but what if he is just not very good at communicating/teaching systems? In this case, have you made the right decision, but left in place the wrong guy to execute it? Hard to sort all this out. But I would say, 14 games is maybe not enough. The Oil went back to their earlier system because they were in an absolute win-now crisis. That ain’t us. Bare minimum, I think the Habs and MSL need to do a better job of communicating that adjusting to the new system is a ‘process’ and that there will continue to be growing pains for a while yet. Get ahead of the fan/media narrative that the sky is falling. Really, they should have been emphasizing this from day one, rather than saying we were going to ‘be in the mix.’ Very smart post here 👍 I wonder what the data says about efficacy of each style? Is learning a challenging new system worth a .02% decrease in goals against for example? I think Marty is a very stubborn person so that causes me a small amount of concern. I am also of the growing opinion that not replacing Burrows in one capacity or another is a mistake. Perhaps an experienced defensive coach could teach the new system more effectively. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Habs Fan in Edmonton Posted November 8 Share Posted November 8 22 minutes ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said: In a way, this is a test of organizational sang-froid. You made a change. The team is struggling to adapt to it. If you truly believe that this is the way the team will need to play when it’s time to win, then NOW is the time to go through those growing pains. The last thing we want is to have our Cup window opening, then regress because we flipped the system. But the other consideration is: what if the adaptation struggles lead to a cascading sense of negativity and a loss of confidence among the young players who keep failing at it? Does that then grind against your wider organizational goals of player development? And there is a third factor. MSL seems very good at working with individual players, but what if he is just not very good at communicating/teaching systems? In this case, have you made the right decision, but left in place the wrong guy to execute it? Hard to sort all this out. But I would say, 14 games is maybe not enough. The Oil went back to their earlier system because they were in an absolute win-now crisis. That ain’t us. Bare minimum, I think the Habs and MSL need to do a better job of communicating that adjusting to the new system is a ‘process’ and that there will continue to be growing pains for a while yet. Get ahead of the fan/media narrative that the sky is falling. Really, they should have been emphasizing this from day one, rather than saying we were going to ‘be in the mix.’ Excellent post looking at the pros and cons of implementing a new system. Has it caused some of the young players to take a step backward? Maybe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commandant Posted November 8 Share Posted November 8 32 minutes ago, Habs Fan in Edmonton said: Excellent post looking at the pros and cons of implementing a new system. Has it caused some of the young players to take a step backward? Maybe. Is it a step backward to take two steps forward? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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