alfredoh2009 Posted December 15, 2023 Share Posted December 15, 2023 1 minute ago, PMAC said: Didn’t quote the right portion but some where in there was a statement that Tampa only gave up a 4th to get Savard. The return was a 1st 2021 and 3rd (2022) with a 4th going to Detroit for salary retention https://www.sportsnet.ca/nhl/lightning-acquire-david-savard-blue-jackets-three-team-trade/sn-amp/ Contending teams love to add guys like Savard who sacrifice their body to win. And for some teams, that reasonably priced additional year is an advantage. Given Hughes’ trade record, I don’t expect Savard to be traded this season unless the return is really good. thanks! I missed that. I didn't want to quote the whole article, and I didn't check the transaction details. I'll add it to my post. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alfredoh2009 Posted December 15, 2023 Share Posted December 15, 2023 On 12/12/2023 at 9:19 AM, alfredoh2009 said: yeah, Marc Dumont has it also in his mailbag list/blog https://montrealhockeynow.com/2023/12/11/canadiens-mailbag-defensive-logjam-laval-rocket-issues-trade-options-habs-rumors-trade-nhl-goalies-hughes-primeau-rocket-defencemen/ Your #GoHabsGo Daily: - #Habs Mailbag: Should the Montreal Canadiens trade a defenceman? What's going on in Laval? - Potential trade partners around the NHL in a goaltender trade. - Prospect Adam Engstrom's exciting development. And more⬇️https://t.co/vQgIZbZb6b — Marc Dumont (@MarcPDumont) December 12, 2023 Then: July/2021, Marc Bergevin signed UFA David Savard to a 4-year $14M contract/$3.5M-AAV Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GHT120 Posted December 15, 2023 Share Posted December 15, 2023 10 hours ago, TurdBurglar said: Next year should be a playoff push year Here we disagree ... I see next season as the year to: complete the clearing out of any previous-administration contracts that aren't seen as part of the rebuild and that don't get moved this season (Savard, Dvorak, Armia ... MAYBE ... Allen, Anderson, Gallagher and/or Primeau ); continuing the development of the D-corps, including/maybe giving Engstrom, Hutson, Mailloux, Reinbaucher and Trudeau varying degrees of exposure to see where they are, what the Habs have) integrating some of their young forwards (e.g., Beck, Farrell, Mesar, Newhook, Mysak, Roy ... if they are deemed ready ... may include some sort of rotation) ... AND ... any young(ish) NHLers added between now and next season. The Habs could be on the fringe of the wildcard race in 24/25, but it is not the season to make a PUSH for the playoffs, which I take as adding veterans to fill specific holes in the lineup ... I-M-O that is 25/26 ... doing so next season would be repeating what has been done in the past, prioritizing playoffs over rebuilding for a sustainable future. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Habs Fan in Edmonton Posted December 15, 2023 Share Posted December 15, 2023 20 minutes ago, GHT120 said: The Habs could be on the fringe of the wildcard race in 24/25, but it is not the season to make a PUSH for the playoffs, which I take as adding veterans to fill specific holes in the lineup ... I-M-O that is 25/26 ... doing so next season would be repeating what has been done in the past, prioritizing playoffs over rebuilding for a sustainable future. I agree, the Habs could surprise next year (a healthy Dach would be needed for that to happen) but I don't see Hughes making any shorter term moves next year to help that happen. It will still be a development year. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TurdBurglar Posted December 15, 2023 Share Posted December 15, 2023 58 minutes ago, GHT120 said: The Habs could be on the fringe of the wildcard race in 24/25, but it is not the season to make a PUSH for the playoffs, which I take as adding veterans to fill specific holes in the lineup ... I-M-O that is 25/26 ... doing so next season would be repeating what has been done in the past, prioritizing playoffs over rebuilding for a sustainable future. Typical rebuilds are aimed at 5 years to be playoff ready. Next year is year 4. I would fully expect making the playoff next year in a lower seed and probably a first round exit. Year 5 the core should be good enough to make the playoffs regularly. After that, they should be a playoff team, shifting the aim to be focused on being a contender. Adding veterans would be in the contender stage, to fill holes in the lineup. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GHT120 Posted December 15, 2023 Share Posted December 15, 2023 11 minutes ago, TurdBurglar said: Typical rebuilds are aimed at 5 years to be playoff ready. Next year is year 4. I would fully expect making the playoff next year in a lower seed and probably a first round exit. Year 5 the core should be good enough to make the playoffs regularly. After that, they should be a playoff team, shifting the aim to be focused on being a contender. Adding veterans would be in the contender stage, to fill holes in the lineup. Think our disagreement is solely regarding timing ... I think they still need another year to focus on developing the defence and bringing in youngsters up front ... I see adding veterans next summer for the purpose of making the 24/25 playoffs as counterproductive ... now come trade deadline 2025, there may be a different perspective. But time will tell which approach HuGo decide to take. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alfredoh2009 Posted December 15, 2023 Share Posted December 15, 2023 20 minutes ago, TurdBurglar said: Typical rebuilds are aimed at 5 years to be playoff ready. Next year is year 4. I would fully expect making the playoff next year in a lower seed and probably a first round exit. Year 5 the core should be good enough to make the playoffs regularly. After that, they should be a playoff team, shifting the aim to be focused on being a contender. Adding veterans would be in the contender stage, to fill holes in the lineup. I agree, if they do not make the playoffs next year, with an expected 1st round exit, then Habs risk missing on Suzuki's window. Not a big deal on the grand scheme of things, but it may disappoint some fans (not me). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GHT120 Posted December 15, 2023 Share Posted December 15, 2023 14 minutes ago, alfredoh2009 said: I agree, if they do not make the playoffs next year, with an expected 1st round exit, then Habs risk missing on Suzuki's window. Not a big deal on the grand scheme of things, but it may disappoint some fans (not me). Suzuki has 6 more years after this ... not certain his window is as short as you suggest ... but I expect they will contend for a playoff spot (most likely wildcard) next season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Habs Fan in Edmonton Posted December 15, 2023 Share Posted December 15, 2023 15 minutes ago, alfredoh2009 said: I agree, if they do not make the playoffs next year, with an expected 1st round exit, then Habs risk missing on Suzuki's window. Not a big deal on the grand scheme of things, but it may disappoint some fans (not me). Suzuki is only 25 next year, he has a lot of years ahead of him. There are a lot of years left in his window. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomh009 Posted December 15, 2023 Share Posted December 15, 2023 50 minutes ago, GHT120 said: Think our disagreement is solely regarding timing ... I think they still need another year to focus on developing the defence and bringing in youngsters up front ... I see adding veterans next summer for the purpose of making the 24/25 playoffs as counterproductive ... now come trade deadline 2025, there may be a different perspective. If I interpreted TB's post correctly, he was suggesting that adding veterans at trade deadline would probably not be until 2025-26 or 2026-27 season. Which I agree with. If they make the playoffs next season, they should do it on their own merit, without trading futures for veterans at the trade deadline. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prime Minister Koivu Posted December 15, 2023 Share Posted December 15, 2023 Agree with GHT120 that next season is about getting rid of some contracts and to grow the youth. Goodbye Savard, Armia, Dvorak 2025/2026 is the year we start competing at a playoff level. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Habs Fan in Edmonton Posted December 15, 2023 Share Posted December 15, 2023 13 minutes ago, Prime Minister Koivu said: Goodbye Savard, Armia, Dvorak 2025/2026 is the year we start competing at a playoff level. I would agree, Dvorak has certainly been a big disappointment, everyone talks about Anderson's slump but Dvorak has only 1 goal in 19 games. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DON Posted December 15, 2023 Share Posted December 15, 2023 19 hours ago, tomh009 said: Right. And we have managed without veteran RHD for a third of a season. Managed but crappily, bottom 10 in goals against and 4th worst in shots against. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alfredoh2009 Posted December 15, 2023 Share Posted December 15, 2023 1 hour ago, Habs Fan in Edmonton said: Suzuki is only 25 next year, he has a lot of years ahead of him. There are a lot of years left in his window. There is a lot of learning needed to win a cup, getting in is one, making it to the final 4 is another, the heartbreak of loosing the semis or finals, then there is winning. Starting that at 25 is perfect… delaying that learning processes pushes him out of the “prime years” window Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomh009 Posted December 15, 2023 Share Posted December 15, 2023 37 minutes ago, Habs Fan in Edmonton said: I would agree, Dvorak has certainly been a big disappointment, everyone talks about Anderson's slump but Dvorak has only 1 goal in 19 games. At least it wasn't an empty net! More seriously, Dvorak's 58% for faceoffs, and is far better defensively than Anderson. And is paid $1M less. He'll have some value at trade deadline next year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commandant Posted December 15, 2023 Share Posted December 15, 2023 25 minutes ago, alfredoh2009 said: There is a lot of learning needed to win a cup, getting in is one, making it to the final 4 is another, the heartbreak of loosing the semis or finals, then there is winning. Starting that at 25 is perfect… delaying that learning processes pushes him out of the “prime years” window Was Boston in a window to win last year, with their top 2 centres at age 37 and 36 or not? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TurdBurglar Posted January 5 Share Posted January 5 Elliot Friedman said on his 32 Thoughts podcast that teams have said Montréal is asking for a 1st for Allen. He didn't make it clear if that was with or without retention. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Habs Fan in Edmonton Posted January 5 Share Posted January 5 14 minutes ago, TurdBurglar said: Elliot Friedman said on his 32 Thoughts podcast that teams have said Montréal is asking for a 1st for Allen. He didn't make it clear if that was with or without retention. I don't doubt they are asking for a first. I highly doubt they get it without a combination of salary retention/taking back another contract/including another piece etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dlbalr Posted January 5 Share Posted January 5 16 minutes ago, TurdBurglar said: Elliot Friedman said on his 32 Thoughts podcast that teams have said Montréal is asking for a 1st for Allen. He didn't make it clear if that was with or without retention. They can ask for the moon but I suspect teams are expecting that price will drop over the next couple of months. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GHT120 Posted January 5 Share Posted January 5 1 minute ago, Habs Fan in Edmonton said: I don't doubt they are asking for a first. I highly doubt they get it without a combination of salary retention/taking back another contract/including another piece etc. With Dvorak, Dach and Wideman all available to be added to LTIR, the current $3.4M of cap space could be pushed to almost $12M ... so they could take back a contract(s). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commandant Posted January 5 Share Posted January 5 34 minutes ago, Habs Fan in Edmonton said: I don't doubt they are asking for a first. I highly doubt they get it without a combination of salary retention/taking back another contract/including another piece etc. They should absolutely ask for a 1st and see if some team gets desperate. Take a 2nd or 3rd or something at the deadline. Jersey, Carolina, colorado, toronto, edmonton could all use another goalie... supply and demand and see if someone bites Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alfredoh2009 Posted January 5 Share Posted January 5 43 minutes ago, GHT120 said: With Dvorak, Dach and Wideman all available to be added to LTIR, the current $3.4M of cap space could be pushed to almost $12M ... so they could take back a contract(s). on a three way trade, I would love to see the Habs broker a deal and add some elite talent. We have enough middle-6 forwards Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GHT120 Posted January 5 Share Posted January 5 1 minute ago, alfredoh2009 said: on a three way trade, I would love to see the Habs broker a deal and add some elite talent. We have enough middle-6 forwards Have to do more than take on contracts to get elite talent ... it would likely take trading someone(s) you/we really don't want to. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dlbalr Posted January 5 Share Posted January 5 1 minute ago, alfredoh2009 said: on a three way trade, I would love to see the Habs broker a deal and add some elite talent. We have enough middle-6 forwards It's not going to be easy adding elite talent acting as a third-party broker in a trade. Teams are generally taking a deadweight deal and getting compensated for it. Top-end talent isn't going to the broker team in such a move. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alfredoh2009 Posted January 5 Share Posted January 5 1 minute ago, dlbalr said: It's not going to be easy adding elite talent acting as a third-party broker in a trade. Teams are generally taking a deadweight deal and getting compensated for it. Top-end talent isn't going to the broker team in such a move. 1 minute ago, dlbalr said: It's not going to be easy adding elite talent acting as a third-party broker in a trade. Teams are generally taking a deadweight deal and getting compensated for it. Top-end talent isn't going to the broker team in such a move. I am day dreaming, just expressing my heart's desire to see some elite talent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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