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Just now, hab29RETIRED said:

Hey I’ve been saying fir a couple of years that I don’t consider Danault a true #1/#1b-#1c type of centre and would don’t think I we are. Real contender unless he is on the 3rd line - I see him as a Carbonneau, Risebrough type of player, but others have constantly thrown his 5 on 5 stats as proof that he is a #1 centre. If he is, than $7.5m/yr is not an over-payment for him.  It may be an over-payment in the pandemic, low revenue environment, but by the looks of it, Columbus is going to have to over-pay pretty much ANY player to stay there. Can’t blame them Ohio would probably be on the bottom of my list, along with Raleigh.  Hell, I think the contract they gave to Domi is an overpay and what we gave to Anderson is an overpay in the current environment and their track records.

 

secondly, I’d they want to retain Tirts, I think Danault is exactly the type of player Torts lives and I think Danault would thrive under him.

 

I agree that Danault is the type of player that would do well under Tortorella.  I disagree that it should be used as justification for Columbus to move Dubois for him.  There's no reason for them to take a talent downgrade here; it's not as if Dubois is an expiring contract and they don't want to lose him for nothing - he's under team control through 2024.  They can take their time and get the right fit, not the one that Montreal fans would prefer.

 

I also don't see Danault getting $7M on the open market because of the offensive limitations.  Look at Pageau's deal at $5M for 6 years - go up around a million or so and that's probably the ceiling, especially in this financial environment.

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3 hours ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said:

 

Good post. You have to put yourself in the other team’s shoes. If the Habs had Dubois, the fabled young and skilled #1C with size, and he wanted out, would we *possibly* accept Danault/Drouin in return? No. In fact, we would string Bergevin up from yardarm if he did that - selling out the franchise cornerstone for a two-way 50-point C due for a big raise, and an erratic 55-point winger who has not once in five seasons shown himself to be a player to count on.

 

Frankly, I am surprised by the KK rumours. If I were CBJ, I would insist on Suzuki, period. I like KK, I am cautiously optimistic about him becoming an impact top-6 C, but let’s face it, he is being hyped more because of 10 play-in games and his high draft position than because of anything he has actually done in two years. Unlike Suze, he has yet to show any sustained delivery on his promise.

 

 

That is an excellent point about the cap and our depth at C.

 

I’ve been all over the map on this Dubois question, but given the strength of this point, coupled with my disbelief that CBJ would accept Danault as an adequate keystone in return, maybe there is simply not a deal to be had here.

 

 

Probably not, but ask yourself this, at this point, if Columbus can get a guy who is willing to lock in long term with all the difficulty they have in retaining players, why wouldn’t they make a deal for a guy like Danault, IF they felt he would resign to be the #1 centre?

 

as for getting value back, if the oilers miss the playoffs again and McDavid demands a trade, puke the oilers be able to get equal value back in a trade??  When Coffey wanted out of Edmonton, did they get equal value?  No.  They got good players back, but still lost the best player and still would have been a much better team with Coffey, than he players they received in return. When a player wants out, you rarely get fair return.  We are the best example of that having gone through it with Roy and to a lesser extent with Langway. The Sabres went through it with O’Reilly as well.

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3 hours ago, Habs Fan in Edmonton said:

 

Agree, if I am Columbus I would insist on one of Kotkaniemi or Suzuki. If you are losing a young stud then you need to replace him with a young stud or someone who has that potential. Danault is a very good player but not a stud. I like to think that Suzuki is untouchable at this point because his ceiling is so high. If nothing else it's interesting to discuss. No doubt that Dubois is a very valuable piece and will/should command a high return.  Players like him, especially at his age aren't available often on the trade market. 

You can insist on whatever you want. Doesn’t mean you are going to get it when everyone knows you have to move the player and your coach isn’t doing you any favours with his comments to the media.

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5 minutes ago, dlbalr said:

 

I agree that Danault is the type of player that would do well under Tortorella.  I disagree that it should be used as justification for Columbus to move Dubois for him.  There's no reason for them to take a talent downgrade here; it's not as if Dubois is an expiring contract and they don't want to lose him for nothing - he's under team control through 2024.  They can take their time and get the right fit, not the one that Montreal fans would prefer.

 

I also don't see Danault getting $7M on the open market because of the offensive limitations.  Look at Pageau's deal at $5M for 6 years - go up around a million or so and that's probably the ceiling, especially in this financial environment.

Do you think he is worth more than Domi?  If so, much more?

 

like a said, I don’t see him as a #1. Others have compared him to Bergeron, with less skill and PP ability and didn’t he finish 5th or 6th in Selke voting?

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Assuming that Columbus does trade Dubois ... I still wonder what Kekalainen would really want in return (not from the Habs in particular): experienced players ready to contribute now ("win now" approach) or prospects/younger players ("reset/rebuild" approach.

 

While they have (in addition to Dubois) a small handful of promising young players, the cupboard is really pretty bare in Columbus. Scott Wheeler ranks them 27th of 31 teams for their prospect pool. And they have no extra draft picks coming up in the near future in the top four rounds (and missing second-rounder next year). It doesn't look like they are ready to rebuild, more like they would want to make one more run at the Cup, which would imply that skilled veterans would be preferred over promising youngsters.

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22 minutes ago, hab29RETIRED said:

You can insist on whatever you want. Doesn’t mean you are going to get it when everyone knows you have to move the player and your coach isn’t doing you any favours with his comments to the media.

 

Why do they have to move him?  He's signed for two more years and is under team control for two more after that.  Dubois has no recourse to force a trade unless he wants to stage a holdout and those are extremely rare now.  Look at Patrik Laine in Winnipeg - he's in his second season of wanting to be dealt and he'll be waiting a while yet for one.  Jacob Trouba waited years from his initial request to be traded.  There's no rush, no situation where it will be justifiable for Columbus to take anything but full value for Dubois.  And if they have to wait until the summer to get it, that's what they'll do.  If it's longer, then it's longer.  They're not blinking for a lesser return just to get it over with.

 

17 minutes ago, hab29RETIRED said:

Do you think he is worth more than Domi?  If so, much more?

 

like a said, I don’t see him as a #1. Others have compared him to Bergeron, with less skill and PP ability and didn’t he finish 5th or 6th in Selke voting?

 

Between the two, I think Danault may carry a bit more value.  I was surprised with the deal Domi got as it seemed a bit high to me as well.  I see his open market value in the $5.5M range (unless he breaks out offensively) whereas Danault is in the high 5/low 6 range.  Domi's offensive ceiling is higher (let's say 55-60 points; I don't see another 71-point year in his future) while Danault is probably closer to 40-45 in a 2C role but brings much more of a well-rounded game to the table.

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28 minutes ago, hab29RETIRED said:

You can insist on whatever you want. Doesn’t mean you are going to get it when everyone knows you have to move the player and your coach isn’t doing you any favours with his comments to the media.

 

Doesn't mean they will get it but I have no doubt there will be a lot of interest in Dubois. He is a young stud. I expect they will get a good return. I am fine if Montreal doesn't end up being the destination, no way I would give up Suzuki, maybe KK.  I like what Montreal has up the middle now, haven't said that in a long long time. 

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Hey all
been lon time
For PLD I think Drouin +KK + Pick is too much IMO
I would lower it to R.Poehling instead of KK.   Although Id keep Drouin on the team until his value rises.
But like most have said here... I would wait for a mid-end season if not summer, and hope the value of our players increases

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10 minutes ago, CoRvInA said:

Hey all
been lon time
For PLD I think Drouin +KK + Pick is too much IMO
I would lower it to R.Poehling instead of KK.   Although Id keep Drouin on the team until his value rises.
But like most have said here... I would wait for a mid-end season if not summer, and hope the value of our players increases

 

Good to see you again, hope all is well.

 

Poehling's trade value is at an all-time low.  He's coming off a terrible year, showed up for the playoffs out of shape (and still grumbled about not playing), and then didn't make the team out of camp.  He can't be the focal point of a viable trade for Dubois.  He'd be a third or fourth element of an offer, not the key young centre that they simply have to have in order to justify trading Dubois.

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Kotkaniemi would have to be going the other way at the very least . Maybe the Finnish GM wants his homeboy on the team. Its at minimum 2 going the other way.

 

Kotkaniemi+ byron + Ylonen + 2nd RD pick? if it even works CAP wise

 

 

Even so acquiring Dubois would make this a team to be reckoned with.  Given our start, is it a good idea? The deal would need to be a multiplayer deal in order to make the cap work. With that said, players coming back would almost certainly have to quarantine for 14 days. You'd think thats 10% of the season alone. On top of that wed likely have no choice but to let Danault and Tatar walk next season.

 

 

What about Danault in a sign and trade with Poehling Fleury and multiple high draft picks (we have 14 of them)

 

 

 

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48 minutes ago, IN THE HEARTS OF MEN said:

Kotkaniemi would have to be going the other way at the very least . Maybe the Finnish GM wants his homeboy on the team. Its at minimum 2 going the other way.

 

Kotkaniemi+ byron + Ylonen + 2nd RD pick? if it even works CAP wise

 

 

Even so acquiring Dubois would make this a team to be reckoned with.  Given our start, is it a good idea? The deal would need to be a multiplayer deal in order to make the cap work. With that said, players coming back would almost certainly have to quarantine for 14 days. You'd think thats 10% of the season alone. On top of that wed likely have no choice but to let Danault and Tatar walk next season.

 

 

What about Danault in a sign and trade with Poehling Fleury and multiple high draft picks (we have 14 of them)

 

 

 

I was thinking Kotkaniemi too but one would think Columbus would want an established top center coming back and that would be Danault.  Also some where saying that Barkov could be available too because Florida might not be able to resign him after his contract is up I think it was on sportsnet I heard it. so how about a 3 way trade 

 

To Florida 

Danault + 2nd (from habs) 

 

To Columbus 

Barkov 

 

To habs 

Dubois 

 

I mean that could be a starting point more would have to be added.

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38 minutes ago, Habsfan89 said:

I was thinking Kotkaniemi too but one would think Columbus would want an established top center coming back and that would be Danault.  Also some where saying that Barkov could be available too because Florida might not be able to resign him after his contract is up I think it was on sportsnet I heard it. so how about a 3 way trade 

 

To Florida 

Danault + 2nd (from habs) 

 

To Columbus 

Barkov 

 

To habs 

Dubois 

 

I mean that could be a starting point more would have to be added.

 

I was thinking a 3 way too, and not with Flor but the Jets.  i.e. what do they want for Laine? The Jets and CBJ would likely be the best trading partners for those disgruntled players.  I'm sure the Jackets GM would take Laine for sure.  Do the Jackets have anybody else or pics that they would be willing to lose or that the Jets would take for him?  If no, do the Habs?  If they are unable to workout a direct trade between themselves can the Habs somehow get in on it? 

 

Realistically I wouldnt move Romanov or Suzuki and I doubt I would move KK either.   The Habs have numerous positions filled long term so they dont need their picks, but now that they have a decent team its unlikely that their picks would be high either.   It would be sweat to add Dubois but it's basically an unrealistic pipe dream. 

 

However, out of CBJ, the Jets and Panthers, Flor is the only team that didnt make the playoffs last year and lost 2 30g guys.  If they lose Barkov they might go into rebuild mode and be willing to accept a whack of pics.  Would CBJ take Barkov?  Thats probably the only way the Habs might have a chance at Dubois. 

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47 minutes ago, Habsfan89 said:

I was thinking Kotkaniemi too but one would think Columbus would want an established top center coming back and that would be Danault.  Also some where saying that Barkov could be available too because Florida might not be able to resign him after his contract is up I think it was on sportsnet I heard it. so how about a 3 way trade 

 

To Florida 

Danault + 2nd (from habs) 

 

To Columbus 

Barkov 

 

To habs 

Dubois 

 

I mean that could be a starting point more would have to be added.

I don't know why Florida wouldn't just trade for Dubois directly.  I also can't see Barkov being willing to resign with Columbus over Florida. Yeah, Florida is a crap organization, but where would you rather live Ohio or Florida? I think it's a no brainer that Barkov wouldn't resign with Columbus.

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23 minutes ago, Sir_Boagalott said:

 

 

I was thinking a 3 way too, and not with Flor but the Jets.  i.e. what do they want for Laine? The Jets and CBJ would likely be the best trading partners for those disgruntled players.  I'm sure the Jackets GM would take Laine for sure.  Do the Jackets have anybody else or pics that they would be willing to lose or that the Jets would take for him?  If no, do the Habs?  If they are unable to workout a direct trade between themselves can the Habs somehow get in on it? 

 

Realistically I wouldnt move Romanov or Suzuki and I doubt I would move KK either.   The Habs have numerous positions filled long term so they dont need their picks, but now that they have a decent team its unlikely that their picks would be high either.   It would be sweat to add Dubois but it's basically an unrealistic pipe dream. 

 

However, out of CBJ, the Jets and Panthers, Flor is the only team that didnt make the playoffs last year and lost 2 30g guys.  If they lose Barkov they might go into rebuild mode and be willing to accept a whack of pics.  Would CBJ take Barkov?  Thats probably the only way the Habs might have a chance at Dubois. 

Jets need D so anything going their way would have to be a top 2 D.  Habs would be crazy to trade Romanov.  They don't need a center so we don't have anything the jets want unless its Caufield or Guhle and I wouldn't trade either of them.

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5 minutes ago, hab29RETIRED said:

I don't know why Florida wouldn't just trade for Dubois directly.  I also can't see Barkov being willing to resign with Columbus over Florida. Yeah, Florida is a crap organization, but where would you rather live Ohio or Florida? I think it's a no brainer that Barkov wouldn't resign with Columbus.

 

You are totally right.  However, Flor is on a downward spiral and Barkov probably sees the approaching Iceberg and just wants to get off a soon to be sinking ship.  I doubt Flor sees themselves as a Cup contender or even a playoff team this year. 

 

The surprising thing is that CBJ lost their #1 goalie and scorer and amazingly they did better the next season.  What chance would the Habs have if they lost Price and say Gallagher and do better the next year?  None. 

 

CBJ could also trade directly with the Jets for Laine, but like the Habs they dont want to give up numerous players on their roster to do it.  However, unlike the Habs the CBJ don't have the same amount of picks that the Habs have and they actually need all of their picks. 

 

Flor likely believes that Barkov is better than Dubois and would want more than an even trade. 

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4 minutes ago, Habsfan89 said:

Jets need D so anything going their way would have to be a top 2 D.  Habs would be crazy to trade Romanov.  They don't need a center so we don't have anything the jets want unless its Caufield or Guhle and I wouldn't trade either of them.

 

Hmm, top 2 D you say.  If the Habs can lockup a large and very talented C while unloading an albatross contract at the same time, then its been nice having you Weber.  😇  I like Weber, but his contract will eventually burn whoever has him so if its possible to dump it I would certainly consider doing so. 

 

I agree that Caufield is also untouchable, but I dont know enough about Guhle to say the same for him. 

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7 hours ago, Sir_Boagalott said:

 

Hmm, top 2 D you say.  If the Habs can lockup a large and very talented C while unloading an albatross contract at the same time, then its been nice having you Weber.  😇  I like Weber, but his contract will eventually burn whoever has him so if its possible to dump it I would certainly consider doing so. 

 

I agree that Caufield is also untouchable, but I dont know enough about Guhle to say the same for him. 

Weber isn't going anywhere. We are in win now mold. 

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I’d definitely go after JLD. He’s a franchise center. Send KK, Byron, and Mete... not one who thinks KK is much more than #3. Not sure if Columbus would bite at that. I’d toss in some draft picks if need be. JLD is a horse. 

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From yesterday's Headlines segment on Sportsnet.  Dubois has been out there for a while now (not just the last few weeks when it was made public).  Now that the season has started, teams (including Columbus) are in a wait and see mode - nothing is imminent.  They've got enough time to wait to get full value and that's the plan.

 

Full value does not mean trading a franchise cornerstone for a package around Phillip Danault and a collection of second and third-tier youngsters. 

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10 hours ago, IN THE HEARTS OF MEN said:

... Kotkaniemi+ byron + Ylonen + 2nd RD pick? if it even works CAP wise ...

 

It works in that the Habs would would not be over the cap ... but they would have $46K-ish of space ... don't know that MB could "manage" that to enough to be able to make a deal of any use at the deadline ... Ylonen has no impact as he is not on the NHL/cap roster

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35 minutes ago, Longstreet said:

I’d definitely go after PLD. He’s a franchise center. Send KK, Byron, and Mete... not one who thinks KK is much more than #3 yet as just a 20yr old kid

fixed that for you.

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27 minutes ago, dlbalr said:

From yesterday's Headlines segment on Sportsnet.  Dubois has been out there for a while now (not just the last few weeks when it was made public).  Now that the season has started, teams (including Columbus) are in a wait and see mode - nothing is imminent.  They've got enough time to wait to get full value and that's the plan.

 

Full value does not mean trading a franchise cornerstone for a package around Phillip Danault and a collection of second and third-tier youngsters. 

 

Agree that the CBJs are likely to wait until more teams can enter the bidding, unless things get ugly ... and while full value doesn't mean Danault and marginal prospects it could be Danault and a couple of top tier prospects and a good pick or two ... but ... IMO ... Danault being the current piece depends entirely on the status of Torts ... if Jarmo intends to extend JT then Danault is a great fit in the near term if Kekäläinen can also discuss extension with Danault's agent first.

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16 minutes ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said:

The persistent Laine-Dubois rumour makes a lot more sense than any of the non-Suzuki proposals emanating from Montreal.

I don’t think the Laine rumours make sense either.  I can’t see Laine wanting to resign in Columbus either, considering he wants out of Winnipeg.  I can’t see that being a much more appealing destination than where he is now.  

I think they need to go after a guy who either has a lot of term, or they are fairly confident that the player would resign with them.  They will probably have to overpay for players as well.  If I was an hockey player, Ohio or North Carolina would be pretty low on the list of states I’d want to live in. 

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5 minutes ago, hab29RETIRED said:

I don’t think the Laine rumours make sense either.  I can’t see Laine wanting to resign in Columbus either, considering he wants out of Winnipeg.  I can’t see that being a much more appealing destination than where he is now.  

I think they need to go after a guy who either has a lot of term, or they are fairly confident that the player would resign with them.  They will probably have to overpay for players as well.  If I was an hockey player, Ohio or North Carolina would be pretty low on the list of states I’d want to live in. 

 

Do we know why Laine wants out? 

 

I meant it makes sense in hockey terms. Your consistent assumption has been that CBJ can’t make hockey decisions per se, but has to proceed on the assumption that guys don’t want to play there. I don’t know why Columbus has had such a problem with bleeding talent over the years while other markets like Minnesota or other blah markets (e.g., Calgary, Buffalo, or even Detroit, which is basically a bombed-out sinkhole except for a few rich redoubts) seem not to; but I suspect it has less to do with the city per se than with a culture which has crept into the Jackets’ organization. They need to fix that.

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