Permanent Rumour Thread

[DON]

14 hours ago, hab29RETIRED said:

but hey, if they want a Dach, Beck, Roy, or our young D. Than it’s a hard no for me.

So your willing to trade nothing of value for any upgrade at any position this offseason. You mentioned that before.

Beck and Roy may not even be become NHLers. 

Dach i think is 0% chance he is being dealt anywhere. 

And if not trading a young LH d-man as part of package to get top pairing RH d-man, why wouldnt you?

Would likely make Mikey Matheson one pretty happy camper.

[hab29RETIRED]

2 minutes ago, DON said:

So your willing to trade nothing of value for any upgrade at any position this offseason. You mentioned that before.

Beck and Roy may not even be become NHLers. 

Dach i think is 0% chance he is being dealt anywhere. 

And if not trading a young LH d-man as part of package to get top pairing RH d-man, why wouldnt you?

Would likely make Mikey Matheson one pretty happy camper.

I didn’t say I wouldn’t trade our young LHD for a young RHD. I said I wouldn’t move them for PLD. We’ve seen this movie before with moving Sergechev, and McDonough for a centre (Drouin was a winger, but from the outset the message was he was going to be a centre).

 

So are you saying Anderson, Dvorak, and Edmondson have zero value? 
 

I’ve seen a lot of praise on how great Anderson is and what a great pickup Dvorak and Edmondson were.  A healthy Edmondson would supposedly have been worth a 1st round pick at the last trade deadline. If he is healthy now, does he suddenly have zero value. A big, physical, 20 goal winger with speed that is signed for a relatively decent contract has zero value?

 

[Commandant]

1 hour ago, hab29RETIRED said:

I didn’t say I wouldn’t trade our young LHD for a young RHD. I said I wouldn’t move them for PLD. We’ve seen this movie before with moving Sergechev, and McDonough for a centre (Drouin was a winger, but from the outset the message was he was going to be a centre).

 

So are you saying Anderson, Dvorak, and Edmondson have zero value? 
 

I’ve seen a lot of praise on how great Anderson is and what a great pickup Dvorak and Edmondson were.  A healthy Edmondson would supposedly have been worth a 1st round pick at the last trade deadline. If he is healthy now, does he suddenly have zero value. A big, physical, 20 goal winger with speed that is signed for a relatively decent contract has zero value?

 

 

Winnipeg is.rumoured to be trading Dubois, Schiefele, and Hellebuyck.

 

This sounds like a rebuild.  Not a team looking for Anderson, Edmundson, etc...  

 

They can have value and also not be what Winnipeg wants.

[DON]

2 hours ago, hab29RETIRED said:

So are you saying Anderson, Dvorak, and Edmondson have zero value? 

 

Anderson has value to a contender, no question. And to the Habs young players, he is a big tough guy who stands up for his linemates and is lots of fun to watch when he is 'on'. 

Contract not great for Dvorak, Edmundson seems like is toast and back issues just suck, especially when are X-large physical fellow.

 

[GHT120]

2 hours ago, hab29RETIRED said:

... So are you saying Anderson, Dvorak, and Edmondson have zero value? 
 

I’ve seen a lot of praise on how great Anderson is and what a great pickup Dvorak and Edmondson were.  A healthy Edmondson would supposedly have been worth a 1st round pick at the last trade deadline. If he is healthy now, does he suddenly have zero value. A big, physical, 20 goal winger with speed that is signed for a relatively decent contract has zero value?

 

 

 

I see:

• Anderson as having value
• Dvorak as having minimal value ... his only full season was the Covid-shortened season ... missed 26 and 18 games the last two seasons ... pricey for a player whose main asset is faceoffs
• Edmundson depends on the GM ... if someone falls in love with the "Vegas' defence is so big" storyline, maybe he is desirable; otherwise he is a risk ... he has never played close to a full season other than the Covid campaign (55 of 56 games) ... he has missed 58 and 21 the last two seasons and IMO never looked close to his best (which is not great even then) last season, even when "healthy" ... the supposed 1st rounder value was a HOPE based on deadline panic and a FULLY healthy season.

[tomh009]

The view from Murat Ates, the Jets writer at the Athletic is that the two teams probably will not be able to find a deal that works for both teams. His conclusion:

Quote

A theoretical proposal: Pierre-Luc Dubois and Ville Heinola for the No. 5 pick and prospect Joshua Roy

 

My thought: I can’t find the trade that suits Winnipeg’s desire for immediate help, nor can I find a trade — even for futures — that hits the sweet spot of giving the Jets quality without Montreal walking away. If it was easy or obvious, it would probably have been done by now.

 

[Commandant]

8 minutes ago, tomh009 said:

The view from Murat Ates, the Jets writer at the Athletic is that the two teams probably will not be able to find a deal that works for both teams. His conclusion:

 

 

There is no way the Habs should trade 5th overall for a one-year rental.  

[tomh009]

19 minutes ago, Commandant said:

 

There is no way the Habs should trade 5th overall for a one-year rental.  

That's pretty much what Ates concluded, too. He figured that the Jets would want one of Suzuki, Caufield, Dach, Slafkovsky or 5th, and that the Habs would be unwilling to part with any of those.

 

He's betting on either LAK on NYR as the trade partner.

[Commandant]

I don't see those teams giving up that quality of player/prospect for dubois either. 

 

Getting a first round pick at the deadline (or in summer) from a contender for a rental player, is not the same as a Dach, or Slafkovsky, or a 5th overall pick. 

 

Dubois has the value of a one year rental. 

 

I joked about Hoffman and a second, but realistically they should be talking the Florida pick and something else. 

[GHT120]

2 hours ago, Commandant said:

There is no way the Habs should trade 5th overall for a one-year rental.  

 

Not that I advocate trading the 5th for PLD, but ***if*** it were done there would either be a sign&trade or an "understanding" with Brisson about how the contract(s) would work out.

[hab29RETIRED]

8 minutes ago, GHT120 said:

Not that I advocate trading the 5th for PLD, but ***if*** it were done there would either be a sign&trade or an "understanding" with Brisson about how the contract(s) would work out.

Still to high a price. Trading top 5 picks, doesn’t make sense you don’t get many of them (if your rebuilding is done properly), and PLD has not had a full year of performance you’d want to see from a guy his age.

[DON]

1 hour ago, GHT120 said:

Not that I advocate trading the 5th for PLD, but ***if*** it were done there would either be a sign&trade or an "understanding" 

I would think this is a given for any 'trade' or deal for Dubois idea.

Not sure why folks keep jumping on the 1 year rental thing, is that anything Hughes would want to do this off-season, illogical isnt it?

Suzuki  Aug 1999

Dubois June 1998; he seems to of accumulated alot more baggage so far, for sure

Was it Columbus & Winnipeg mgmt issues or him?  

 

[GHT120]

5 minutes ago, DON said:

I would think this is a given for any 'trade' or deal for Dubois idea.

Not sure why folks keep jumping on the 1 year rental thing, is that anything Hughes would want to do this off-season, illogical isn't it?

 

They don't want PLD and grab hold of every excuse possible.

[dlbalr]

8 hours ago, GHT120 said:

Defenceman Damon Severson is joining the Columbus Blue Jackets as part of a sign-and-trade (8-yrs, $50M) ... the Devils will receive the Flames' third-round pick in this month's NHL Draft (80th overall) from the Blue Jackets.

 

Doesn't seem like a HUGE return.

 

He wasn't under contract so it was effectively a UFA rights trade similar to what the Habs did when they jumped the market on Edmundson.  The fact New Jersey allowed for early negotiations netted them a third instead of the fourth or fifth-rounder they'd have otherwise gotten.  Teams knew the Devils couldn't afford to keep him so they were never going to get much for his rights.

 

7 hours ago, DON said:

Is he much of a d-man?

 

Right-shot player who can log heavy minutes and chip in a bit offensively.  He was probably the top D on the market this summer combining his skill, age, and handedness.

[Prime Minister Koivu]

Adam Fox did the same thing as PLD didn’t he?

 

He turned out to be just fine. 
 

Bluejackets were a dumpster fire and Torts is either great for you as a player or the absolute worst. 
 

Jets have room issues that are well known and Nobody wants to live in Winnipeg. 
 

Why shouldn’t PLD decide where he plays? He has earned the right to choose in one year. 
 

Demanding a trade is not smart IMO and the possibility exists that PLD sits while the season starts. He is forcing the issue and might get screwed instead of waiting that one more year!

 

Still no way in hell I’m trading #5 for him. Florida pick and choice of bottom 6 is about it or pass 

[Commandant]

3 hours ago, GHT120 said:

Not that I advocate trading the 5th for PLD, but ***if*** it were done there would either be a sign&trade or an "understanding" with Brisson about how the contract(s) would work out.

 

Even in a sign and trade, Im not giving up 5th.

[The Chicoutimi Cucumber]

22 hours ago, Commandant said:

 

Winnipeg is.rumoured to be trading Dubois, Schiefele, and Hellebuyck.

 

This sounds like a rebuild.  Not a team looking for Anderson, Edmundson, etc...  

 

They can have value and also not be what Winnipeg wants.

 

That’s the trouble with so many trade proposals involving the Habs. Many teams are on a rebuilding trajectory, just like we are, so they’re not plausible trading partners. The case of Dach - where a ‘rebuilding’ (or tanking) club decided to unload a 21-year-old former #3 pick (!) - was kind of a unicorn.

 

I may be wrong about this, but it seems to me that there are way fewer teams clinging to the ‘bubble team, anything can happen’ philosophy nowadays. Fans have generally gotten a lot smarter about the value of picks and prospects, and perhaps teams have duly twigged to the concept that you can make just as much money selling ‘hope for the future’ as you can promoting a borderline playoff club. That removes the mushy middle and leaves the Habs only with maybe 1/3 of the league as possible trade partners for guys like Anderson. 

 

Re: PLD, as I’ve noted before, I can live with sending back a mid-range prospect at C or D but not much more than that. And if you do pull the trigger on that, you’d better have confidence in your assessment of that prospect. No more McDonaughs please.

[Plutarch]

3 hours ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said:

 

That’s the trouble with so many trade proposals involving the Habs. Many teams are on a rebuilding trajectory, just like we are, so they’re not plausible trading partners. The case of Dach - where a ‘rebuilding’ (or tanking) club decided to unload a 21-year-old former #3 pick (!) - was kind of a unicorn.

 

I may be wrong about this, but it seems to me that there are way fewer teams clinging to the ‘bubble team, anything can happen’ philosophy nowadays. Fans have generally gotten a lot smarter about the value of picks and prospects, and perhaps teams have duly twigged to the concept that you can make just as much money selling ‘hope for the future’ as you can promoting a borderline playoff club. That removes the mushy middle and leaves the Habs only with maybe 1/3 of the league as possible trade partners for guys like Anderson. 

 

Re: PLD, as I’ve noted before, I can live with sending back a mid-range prospect at C or D but not much more than that. And if you do pull the trigger on that, you’d better have confidence in your assessment of that prospect. No more McDonaughs please.

On Winnipeg. Lots of people are saying rebuild... But with Connor and Ehlers could they just be retooling on the fly?

[dlbalr]

19 minutes ago, Plutarch said:

On Winnipeg. Lots of people are saying rebuild... But with Connor and Ehlers could they just be retooling on the fly?

 

I think they'd like to but if they lose Hellebuyck, Dubois, Scheifele, and Wheeler (all UFA-eligible in 2024), it's really hard to move all of them and somehow stay in playoff contention, especially in a market that isn't a great draw for free agents.

[Prime Minister Koivu]

1 hour ago, dlbalr said:

 

I think they'd like to but if they lose Hellebuyck, Dubois, Scheifele, and Wheeler (all UFA-eligible in 2024), it's really hard to move all of them and somehow stay in playoff contention, especially in a market that isn't a great draw for free agents.

4!!!!! Big raise contracts at the same time 💩

 

Cap/contract miss management or unlucky coincidence? 
 

I wonder how many of them like playing in Winnipeg? Not to mention these guys are all going to get paid

 

Mathews for Hellebuyk, 

[The Chicoutimi Cucumber]

I wonder if WPG isn't in structural trouble. Nobody seems to want to play there. 

[GHT120]

43 minutes ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said:

I wonder if WPG isn't in structural trouble. Nobody seems to want to play there. 

When the Coyotes move to Salt Lake City, the Jets can move to Pheonix again.
😉

[Plutarch]

22 hours ago, dlbalr said:

 

I think they'd like to but if they lose Hellebuyck, Dubois, Scheifele, and Wheeler (all UFA-eligible in 2024), it's really hard to move all of them and somehow stay in playoff contention, especially in a market that isn't a great draw for free agents.

I guess I meant... I wonder if they move these guys then flip what they get for guys with some term. Akin to what Vancouver did with the Horvat - hronek asset switcheroo 

[DON]

21 hours ago, GHT120 said:

When the Coyotes move to Salt Lake City, the Jets can move to Pheonix again.
😉

Seems too bad, thought they would do well once back in Winnipeg. Off to some place farther south, with a basketball team to partner with i guess?

[GHT120]

14 minutes ago, DON said:

Seems too bad, thought they would do well once back in Winnipeg. Off to some place farther south, with a basketball team to partner with i guess?

Depends on how much ownership wants to keep the team in Winnipeg ... if they end up having to go the rebuild route because nobody will re-sign and the "NHL-ready" value isn't there, that could be telling.

 

Like Quebec City, there is tremendous fan support but just not enough private sector money available to buy suites, sponsorships, etc. at prices that would make it profitable.