Permanent Rumour Thread

[hab29RETIRED]

15 minutes ago, xXx..CK..xXx said:

I just don’t get how so many people are so high on or even accepting of Montembault. In my opinion there’s not even a consideration of him being a flash in the pan because he’s never been good. This is coming from someone who usually defends our players so I am not, in general, a hater. 
 

I understand that there are many factors at play and considering he is currently on the team now we have to work with what we have but I can clearly see that he’s not it and I watch every game.
 

Some people here were also anti-Price because as a result of having him we had to rely too much on our goaltending, but I saw that as a good problem to have. I don’t expect our next goalie to be Price and don’t hold Montembault to that standard but I believe our current tandem to be one of the worst in the league and would like to upgrade. Otherwise, we will have to expect very little over the next few years.

Well Premieau isn’t ready yet. Allen SHOULD be moved while he’s healthy, and we aren’t going to pull a Vasilevskiy out of our ass. So im

okay with reasonable deal for Montembault as a stop gap - but don’t want an over commitment.

 

i want a good dependable goalie, but never want to go backs to the Bergevin Carey Price and nothing else model ever again .

[tomh009]

33 minutes ago, xXx..CK..xXx said:

I just don’t get how so many people are so high on or even accepting of Montembault. In my opinion there’s not even a consideration of him being a flash in the pan because he’s never been good.

So, in your view, Montembeault played poorly last year, too? Most observers believe he was the primary reason why the Habs didn't end up with a higher draft pick this past summer.

 

(NB whether he will be able to maintain that level or even continue to develop is a separate question that will be answered in the course of the current season.)

[alfredoh2009]

3 hours ago, tomh009 said:

So, in your view, Montembeault played poorly last year, too? Most observers believe he was the primary reason why the Habs didn't end up with a higher draft pick this past summer.

 

(NB whether he will be able to maintain that level or even continue to develop is a separate question that will be answered in the course of the current season.)

I remember Steve Penney, he had a strong year with the Habs

I remember Brian Hayward, won the Jennings 3 times (if I'm not mistaken) and some days looked like a star

Didn't Racicot look at some point like the next one, I forget him after all these years

Jocelyn Thibeault has a good start with the Habs, looked like "the next one"

 

What I am trying to say is that , although Montembeault played well last year, he still has lots to prove before getting that big fat contract.

 

 

 

[tomh009]

Don, I encourage you to read the last sentence of my post, too. It was not really that long a read.

[brindavis]

For me, teams don't seem to have a long term bona fide Number 1 Goalie in the same way they were 20 years ago, there seems to be more goalie pools. There aren't many #1 goalies that immediately spring to mind.....

 

If you look at the stats for games played 2022/23, 12 goalies played more that 55 games (2/3rds of the games). So 12 of 32 teams (37.5% of teams). 

 

In 2002/03, 20 goalies played 55 games or more. So 20 of 30 teams (66%).

 

The Vezina Trophy winner (Ullmark) only started 48 games in 2023. That compares to the 73 games of Martin Brodeur in 2003.

 

We have been spoilt with Carey Price carrying the load for so long and I think we need to accept the new status quo is a blended mix. Is Monty the answer, hard to tell at the moment. But what is obvious with this approach, is that peaks in form can be ridden longer and dips don't have to be put up with when you have a goalie pool. 

[xXx..CK..xXx]

Do I think Montembault played well last season? No.

 

He was:

60th in the league in wins

82nd in save percentage

95th in goals against average

 

When we had terrible seasons with Price, he would still hover around the top 30 in those categories at least.

 

No, I am not comparing Montembault to Price. Yes, I understand that it is a team sport and do not blame Montembault for our results last year. Yes, some of the goalies ahead of Montembault on the stats I listed played a minimal amount of games therefore skewing Montembaults standing in those categories.

 

Yes, I’ve seen Montembault have great games. No, I don’t think he has ever played very well over an entire season, in general.

 

[Habs Fan in Edmonton]

13 hours ago, hab29RETIRED said:

 

i want a good dependable goalie, but never want to go backs to the Bergevin Carey Price and nothing else model ever again .

We certainly all want dependable goaltending and tieing up 10.5M in cap space is a lot for 1 goalie but what do you suggest the Habs do if they end with an elite goalie?

[Commandant]

Im not going to.judge a goalies' stats playing behind a bottom five team, who was playing 3-5 rookie defencemen at any given time last year.  The GAA and wins should be thrown completely out the window there, and even the save percentage is skewed by the sheer number of high danger chances the team gave up.

 

This is why the GSAA and other HDSV% are more informative and Montembault has done well enough in those numbers to be around a league average goalie.  Which means for the right price and term, hed be a fine signing as part of a tandem.

 

A tandem costing about 7 mil combined will also leave an extra 5 mill or so vs Price and Backup, that can be used for upgrading another forward or dman.  Instead of a hoffman at 4.5, you can get an elite scorer at close to 10.

[GHT120]

1 hour ago, Habs Fan in Edmonton said:

We certainly all want dependable goaltending and tieing up 10.5M in cap space is a lot for 1 goalie but what do you suggest the Habs do if they end with an elite goalie?

That they not set the goalie market by paying $2-3.5 million more than the other top goalies.

[GHT120]

3 minutes ago, Commandant said:

Im not going to.judge a goalies' stats playing behind a bottom five team, who was playing 3-5 rookie defencemen at any given time last year.  The GAA and wins should be thrown completely out the window there, and even the save percentage is skewed by the sheer number of high danger chances the team gave up.

 

This is why the GSAA and other HDSV% are more informative and Montembault has done well enough in those numbers to be around a league average goalie.  Which means for the right price and term, hed be a fine signing as part of a tandem.

 

A tandem costing about 7 mil combined will also leave an extra 5 mill or so vs Price and Backup, that can be used for upgrading another forward or dman.  Instead of a hoffman at 4.5, you can get an elite scorer at close to 10.

 

 

I'm not an "advanced stats" guy but I completely agree with this ... the emphasized text above is IMO the key ... I-M-O he is yet to be worthy of more than 2-3 years or $3.5M.

 

[Habs Fan in Edmonton]

12 minutes ago, GHT120 said:

That they not set the goalie market by paying $2-3.5 million more than the other top goalies.

Vasilevsky has a cap hit of 9.5M while Lundqvist was 8.5M so Price's salary was not crazy out of line especially when you consider the tax jurisdiction. However there is no doubt that Bergevin fell in love with certain players like Gallagher and Price and made sure they were taken care of to the detriment of the rest of the team. I am confident Hughes is a better negotiator at salaries. He has already shown that.

[GHT120]

9 minutes ago, Habs Fan in Edmonton said:

Vasilevsky has a cap hit of 9.5M while Lundqvist was 8.5M so Price's salary was not crazy out of line especially when you consider the tax jurisdiction. However there is no doubt that Bergevin fell in love with certain players like Gallagher and Price and made sure they were taken care of to the detriment of the rest of the team. I am confident Hughes is a better negotiator at salaries. He has already shown that.

Vasilevsky signed two years after Price ... at the time Price signed I felt he deserved more than Lundqvist but at $9 million, not $10.5 million ... but as you say, MB let emotion enter into contract negotiations for "his guys".

[hab29RETIRED]

3 hours ago, xXx..CK..xXx said:

Do I think Montembault played well last season? No.

 

He was:

60th in the league in wins

82nd in save percentage

95th in goals against average

 

When we had terrible seasons with Price, he would still hover around the top 30 in those categories at least.

 

No, I am not comparing Montembault to Price. Yes, I understand that it is a team sport and do not blame Montembault for our results last year. Yes, some of the goalies ahead of Montembault on the stats I listed played a minimal amount of games therefore skewing Montembaults standing in those categories.

 

Yes, I’ve seen Montembault have great games. No, I don’t think he has ever played very well over an entire season, in general.

 

Yeah, don’t agree where Price would hover. Do you not recall his last inconsistency in 3 of his last 5 years?? He was injured, but he certainly wasn’t even close to the league leaders in a few of those years.  If we had Roy with Price as his backup, we MAY have won 5 more games than we did.

[hab29RETIRED]

2 hours ago, Habs Fan in Edmonton said:

We certainly all want dependable goaltending and tieing up 10.5M in cap space is a lot for 1 goalie but what do you suggest the Habs do if they end with an elite goalie?

How much is Winnipeg paying Helleybuyck, or Tampa paying Vasilevskiy?  Would joint over that - and yes I know that Tampa is a tax free state. Bottom line is they set a max limit and stick with it - they played hardball with Stamkos in his last deal and are doing it again. You have to do that in a cap system. You shouldn’t be spending more than $10m total for goaltending - certainly not the $14m-$15m we were paying  Price and Allen!

[Commandant]

1 hour ago, GHT120 said:

Vasilevsky signed two years after Price ... at the time Price signed I felt he deserved more than Lundqvist but at $9 million, not $10.5 million ... but as you say, MB let emotion enter into contract negotiations for "his guys".

 

On the day Lundqvist signed his % of the overall cap, was the exact same % as Price 2 years later.

[GHT120]

35 minutes ago, Commandant said:

On the day Lundqvist signed his % of the overall cap, was the exact same % as Price 2 years later.

 

OK ... but still wouldn't have given him more than $9M.

[The Chicoutimi Cucumber]

No one, I don’t think, is advocating some monster contract for Monty. People are suggesting numbers like 3, 3.5, for relatively modest term (Four years maximum). My own suggestion was 3 X 3. I’m go up to 3.5 without throwing myself off a bridge over it. 

 

IMHO the guy has provided capable goaltending for over a year now. Just because he is a late bloomer, people want to throw him on the trash heap? We need a transitional G to carry us toward our window of contention. Monty looks like as good a bet to provide it as anyone else. 

[The Chicoutimi Cucumber]

36 minutes ago, GHT120 said:

OK ... but still wouldn't have given him more than $9M.

 

Price led us to the Finals for the first time in 25 years. 

 

He earned his money.

[GHT120]

5 hours ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said:

Price led us to the Finals for the first time in 25 years. 

He earned his money.

 

I know better than to discuss The Covid Season.

[Prime Minister Koivu]

Friedman is saying that Edmonton is interested in Montembault and Primeau but not in Allen. 
 

Montembault is worth more than Allen I would think but what kind of return would Monty bring? A second?

[Habs Fan in Edmonton]

On 11/15/2023 at 6:23 PM, GHT120 said:

I know better than to discuss The Covid Season.

 

Exactly, they beat such terrible teams in the playoffs like Toronto and Vegas so it doesn't count. 

[GHT120]

2 hours ago, Habs Fan in Edmonton said:

Exactly, they beat such terrible teams in the playoffs like Toronto and Vegas so it doesn't count. 

Nice try ... I know better than to discuss the Covid Season.

[Habs Fan in Edmonton]

11 minutes ago, GHT120 said:

Nice try ... I know better than to discuss the Covid Season.

 

But you did mention it. But I also see your point. That's another topic we beat to death. 

[The Chicoutimi Cucumber]

3 hours ago, Prime Minister Koivu said:

Friedman is saying that Edmonton is interested in Montembault and Primeau but not in Allen. 
 

Montembault is worth more than Allen I would think but what kind of return would Monty bring? A second?

 

If we're Monty skeptics, then we should leap at the chance to convert him into a younger asset - especially if EDM is willing to part with something significant. 

 

Myself, being more of a Monty believer than skeptic, I would not trade him for a 2nd. Having a major hole at G for the foreseeable future is not a good recipe, even for a rebuilding team. (My premise is that it does not help player development to get shellacked and not get rewarded for strong efforts, which is what not having G inevitably results in). Plus Monty may still be a viable G when this team moves out of the basement, meaning we'd at least have a guaranteed option when the time comes. 

 

That's just me, though. Someone who is more optimistic about Primeau might also feel differently about moving Monty out.

[GHT120]

1 hour ago, Habs Fan in Edmonton said:

But you did mention it.

In response to someone else mentioning it.