brobin Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 I think he has shown improvements and become a more complete player. The issue has been how he has constantly been pinballed around from one line to the next - even when he is doing well. Goal scorers need to be kept in a rhytmn, rather then being shuffled around. 25-35 goal scorers tend to be streaky by nature. I haven't seen a guy who is good for 20-25 goals being dropped to the 4th line as fast as Ak45. How many other 25-35 goal scorers in the league spent as much time on the 4th line as AK46 has??? If I'm PG, I'd sign him, front loaded on a 5 year deal on the bet that he breaks out next year. If he does, you just locked up a bargain. If he doesn't because the deal is front loaded, he still is an attractive contract to other teams and reasonably easy to move. Trading him this year, you are getting 50 cents on the dollar. ANything less then a 1st rounder is not getting full value for A46. WIth this being the last year of the CBA - this is the time to front load contracts to set yourself up for success in the future. I think the NHL is going to try and close off these loop holes next year. Why should we expect him to break out next year. Why not this year when he was fighting for a contract? His best year was 26 goals and he has been on a decline ever since. Yes, he gets bounced around lines, but that is true for many players. He normally gets bounced because he stops producing and disappears. 5 years is crazy, imo, unless he comes cheap. Pay him like a 15 to 20 goal scorer and I am fine with it. Pay him like a 30 goal scorer and you are blind to his 5 to 6 years of performance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hab29RETIRED Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 Yeah, and how did that work out for them. They are over paid and under performing. I don't want to add AK to that list, at least on our team. There is a difference, Lieno has never put up 20 goals and got a contract of a guy who is a regular 20-25 goal scorer. Laich has scored 20 goals in the past, but did so when the Caps were lighiting up the league. He also didn't get his contract for his production. He got the money for grit/leadership - always dangerous to overpay a guy on intangibles. Having said that, I like Laich and his production isn't bad considering how the really high priced guys are doing (Ovechkin/Semin) and the injuries to Backlund/Green. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
illWill Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 It's Habs29 vs everybody else. There isn't any point on debating him on this topic, the man is set in his AK loving ways. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DON Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 It's Habs29 vs everybody else. There isn't any point on debating him on this topic, the man is set in his AK loving ways. i would be more than happy if 46 got re-signed for couple years (or traded if got a nice package for him) just my 2 cents Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JGC21 Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 I would much rather move Bourque. Wow, I couldn't disagree more. I think Bourque is here to stay, Kostitsyn has worn out his welcome. I'd be very surprised if he's a Hab come Saturday. I'm guessing we get a 2nd rounder and a prospect in return. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hab29RETIRED Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 Why should we expect him to break out next year. Why not this year when he was fighting for a contract? His best year was 26 goals and he has been on a decline ever since. Yes, he gets bounced around lines, but that is true for many players. He normally gets bounced because he stops producing and disappears. 5 years is crazy, imo, unless he comes cheap. Pay him like a 15 to 20 goal scorer and I am fine with it. Pay him like a 30 goal scorer and you are blind to his 5 to 6 years of performance. Who proposed to pay him like a 30 goal scorer. I'm saying we should pay him like a 20-25 goal scorer that he is, with the bonus of physical player who also isn't afraid of hitting Chara on the forecheck. How many 25 goal scorer in slumps get thrown to the 4th line??? Holstrom has 8 goals and Bertuzzi 12, this year - is Babcock playing them on the 4th line or under 5 minutes some nights??? Mike Richards Stasny and getting around $5.5M and $6M and only have 14 goals eash this year - are they playing on the 4th line??? How many players in the league when they are producing gets thrown on a line with Gomez to try and wake him up???? Wow, I couldn't disagree more. I think Bourque is here to stay, Kostitsyn has worn out his welcome. I'd be very surprised if he's a Hab come Saturday. I'm guessing we get a 2nd rounder and a prospect in return. I live in Calgary and have seen the papers all year about Bourque. THe hate for him here is greater then the french media/RDS hate for AK46 over the past three years - if thats possible. Bourque brings absolutely NOTHING when he isn't producing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commandant Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 Yeah, and how did that work out for them. They are over paid and under performing. I don't want to add AK to that list, at least on our team. I'm not saying we should sign him for 4.5, just saying what the market value for this type of player might be come the summer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commandant Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 In regards to front loading AKs contract... He's 27 years old, there is limited value in front loading his contract unless you want to do a 10 + year deal. The real secret to the front loaded contracts is the retirement years at the end. The years when a player is 37, 38, 39 years old that are only worth 1 million and lower the average annual value (AAV) of the contract in years the player will never play because he retires first. I don't think anyone here, not even Habs29, is comfortable with a decade long deal for Andrei, and as such the value of exploiting the cap loophole is extremely limited. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JGC21 Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 Who proposed to pay him like a 30 goal scorer. I'm saying we should pay him like a 20-25 goal scorer that he is, with the bonus of physical player who also isn't afraid of hitting Chara on the forecheck. How many 25 goal scorer in slumps get thrown to the 4th line??? Holstrom has 8 goals and Bertuzzi 12, this year - is Babcock playing them on the 4th line or under 5 minutes some nights??? Mike Richards Stasny and getting around $5.5M and $6M and only have 14 goals eash this year - are they playing on the 4th line??? How many players in the league when they are producing gets thrown on a line with Gomez to try and wake him up???? I live in Calgary and have seen the papers all year about Bourque. THe hate for him here is greater then the french media/RDS hate for AK46 over the past three years - if thats possible. Bourque brings absolutely NOTHING when he isn't producing. Who cares what the Calgary papers say about Bourque? A change of scenery can change a payer's career/perspective. The jury is still out on him in Montreal, let's see how he finishes the year and then judge. As for Kostitsyn, his time has run out. He's being shopped and won't be a Hab by next week. Hab29Retired is going to need a new favorite player... Oh, and I think he wants Desharnais playing on the wing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeLassister Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 Like I said in another thread, I'll be furious if we dump Kostitsyn and don't improve our roster by packaging him with other assets. Dumping him for a pick will get you NOTHING else than drafting another Kostitsyn. I'd much rather package him with a Plek and a 1st for a true #1 C for example. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brobin Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 I'm not saying we should sign him for 4.5, just saying what the market value for this type of player might be come the summer. Sorry, l didn't mean to imply you wanted him paid that much. My point is that if he is going to be over valued, let someone else do the over paying. AK says he will take less, but I have heard that song and dance before. His agent will ask for $5.5, but he will take $5, just for the Habs. To me, $4 is the max and he should take less to stay in Montreal. A two year deal for 3.75 would be my best offer, but I grant you that I am a cheap bastard. There is a good line used in hockey.. "you are what your stats say you are". AK has enough stats to suggest he is a 15 to 20 goal scorer these days. Its a shame, because I do believe he has the talent to be more then that. Then again, Kovalev had the talent to be a 50 goal scorer. Unfortunately, neither AK nor Kovalev had the work ethic and consistency to make it happen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Willey101 Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 Since we have Bourque I think that going forward we cannot keep AK46. They are one and the same player. Skilled when they actually apply themselves but for 50% of games they are a non-factor. Bourque IMO replaces AK46 so let's part with him now and obtain a few assets. If Ak46 goes to market you know he'll get more than what Bourque is getting anyway...... So let's part with AK now and see what we can get. Realistically we will have Geoffrion, Leblanc and possibly Gallagher looking for a spot with the habs and AK doesn;t look like he'll be a top 2 line player anyways. What's wrong with a young line-up that looks something like: Bourque-Plekanec-Gionta Pacioretty-Desharnais-Cole Geoffrion-Eller-Leblanc Moen-White-Boll/Prust/Blunden Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brobin Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 According to Lebrun (I think it was), there was little interest being expressed in AK. He might get picked up late as someones second or third choice, so don't expect much. When asked why.. "He is out of shape and doesn't seem that interested in hockey"... I am not sure if that is true or not, but if it the perception floating around the other teams, then it might as well be reality. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Chicoutimi Cucumber Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 According to Lebrun (I think it was), there was little interest being expressed in AK. He might get picked up late as someones second or third choice, so don't expect much. When asked why.. "He is out of shape and doesn't seem that interested in hockey"... I am not sure if that is true or not, but if it the perception floating around the other teams, then it might as well be reality. Interesting. Accusations of poor conditioning have dogged this team since at least Carbo's time. Martin made it a priority, but we still hear remarks to this effect. Given his perpetually erratic performance it would not surprise me at all if AK46 - one of the few holdovers from what was apparently the Carbo country-club - is one of the constants underpinning these rumours. If so, why JM didn't single him out for beatings (in contrast to Lats and Sergei) is an interesting question; but apparently Kosty is one of the most popular guys in the room, and given the need to avoid rebellions Martin may have decided to let it slide in his case. (If so, it was obviously a miscalculation since Kosty slagged him in the press regardless). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Machine of Loving Grace Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 Shocks me that anyone would be in bad shape with Timmins around... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMMR Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 Shocks me that anyone would be in bad shape with Timmins around... That guy is just a machine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TurdBurglar Posted February 22, 2012 Share Posted February 22, 2012 Bourque and Kostitsyn are cut from the same cloth. They would be perfect for a 4th line. They have the talent to be 2nd liners, but the inconsistency to not stay there. Bourque-Gomez-Kostitsyn would be the most dangerous 4th line in the league. Not only because of their talent, but how do you defend them? If that line gets on a streak, points are going on the board. Also, paying your 4th line 15m is hilarious. Never going to happen, but it's a thought, seeing as we have them anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMMR Posted February 22, 2012 Share Posted February 22, 2012 Bourque and Kostitsyn are cut from the same cloth. They would be perfect for a 4th line. They have the talent to be 2nd liners, but the inconsistency to not stay there. Bourque-Gomez-Kostitsyn would be the most dangerous 4th line in the league. Not only because of their talent, but how do you defend them? If that line gets on a streak, points are going on the board. Also, paying your 4th line 15m is hilarious. Never going to happen, but it's a thought, seeing as we have them anyway. White Gomez Borque tonight pretty dominant line Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bbp Posted February 22, 2012 Share Posted February 22, 2012 Bourque and Kostitsyn are cut from the same cloth. They would be perfect for a 4th line. They have the talent to be 2nd liners, but the inconsistency to not stay there. Bourque-Gomez-Kostitsyn would be the most dangerous 4th line in the league. Not only because of their talent, but how do you defend them? If that line gets on a streak, points are going on the board. Also, paying your 4th line 15m is hilarious. Never going to happen, but it's a thought, seeing as we have them anyway. At this point I don't think Montreal has 1st or 4th lines we kinda have 2 second lines and 2 third lines. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hab29RETIRED Posted February 22, 2012 Share Posted February 22, 2012 According to Lebrun (I think it was), there was little interest being expressed in AK. He might get picked up late as someones second or third choice, so don't expect much. When asked why.. "He is out of shape and doesn't seem that interested in hockey"... I am not sure if that is true or not, but if it the perception floating around the other teams, then it might as well be reality. I wouldn't put much stock in Lebrun. AK46 will be traded. THere are 3-4 teams that he'd be a great fit on. I still think the habs will resign him, but he'll bring at least a 2nd round pick (which IMO is 50cents on the dollar). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commandant Posted February 22, 2012 Share Posted February 22, 2012 I wouldn't put much stock in Lebrun. AK46 will be traded. THere are 3-4 teams that he'd be a great fit on. I still think the habs will resign him, but he'll bring at least a 2nd round pick (which IMO is 50cents on the dollar). Yet you are willing to put stock in Lebrun when he says other teams are laughing at the Kaberle trade, and no one wants kaberle? Which one is it? Is Lebrun reliable as an ear to GMs or not? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hab29RETIRED Posted February 22, 2012 Share Posted February 22, 2012 Yet you are willing to put stock in Lebrun when he says other teams are laughing at the Kaberle trade, and no one wants kaberle? Which one is it? Is Lebrun reliable as an ear to GMs or not? i'm not putting stock in what Lebrun said. I'm putting stock in what the GM that traded Kaberle said. How often does a gm say he made a mistake signing a guy and he should have known better??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thehabbit Posted February 22, 2012 Share Posted February 22, 2012 Downey just pulled in a first round pick in this year's draft! I think Kosty is worth at least that then. Muy interesante Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commandant Posted February 22, 2012 Share Posted February 22, 2012 Downey just pulled in a first round pick in this year's draft! I think Kosty is worth at least that then. Muy interesante contract situation is completely different though. Downie is not a ufa rental. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thehabbit Posted February 22, 2012 Share Posted February 22, 2012 To some teams the UFA status actually adds value. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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