When does Therrien get fired?

[habs rule]

One thing about Le Genius is as long as Carey is healthy, he will be a winning coach. How's that for an endorsement?

[kaos]

One thing about Le Genius is as long as Carey is healthy, he will be a winning coach. How's that for an endorsement?

Yeah but that's probably true about any coach with this team. Truth is this teams only going as far as Carey takes them

[ehjay]

One thing about Le Genius is as long as Carey is healthy, he will be a winning coach. How's that for an endorsement?

I hate it!!!! It 'endorses' LeGuy

[BCHabnut]

I fear that MB is tailoring the team to the coach instead of the other way around. This does not bode well for his firing. I say he stays in the foxhole for the next two years

[Scott462]

The doom and gloom is real.

[illWill]

I fear that MB is tailoring the team to the coach instead of the other way around. This does not bode well for his firing. I say he stays in the foxhole for the next two years

I would say you are correct. But I will add that I think he is also tailoring it to his own vision, since he is the one who hired Therrien. Whether or not we all agree with the decisions made, I hope at least all can be in agreement that it's a positive that coach and GM are on the same page.

[habs rule]

I fear that MB is tailoring the team to the coach instead of the other way around. This does not bode well for his firing. I say he stays in the foxhole for the next two years

Of course he is, it the GM's job to get the players for his coach. The trouble is this coach is Le Genius, a retro throwback to the days when he played. For all 4 games or whatever it was. This coach has no concept of offense and that would be the problem. He (Le Genius) wants us to be the 76 flyers. That won't work today and is a fool's mission. Dump and chase is gone, it is all puck possession now. Never give the puck up. Move it with speed and skill.

[dlbalr]

Of course he is, it the GM's job to get the players for his coach. The trouble is this coach is Le Genius, a retro throwback to the days when he played. For all 4 games or whatever it was. This coach has no concept of offense and that would be the problem. He (Le Genius) wants us to be the 76 flyers. That won't work today and is a fool's mission. Dump and chase is gone, it is all puck possession now. Never give the puck up. Move it with speed and skill.

I'm going to toss in a contrarian viewpoint here just for fun.

Not every team can be built the same way, with high possession players that put teams at the top of the Corsi/SAT% ratings (it's a mathematical impossibility to have 30 teams with positive possession numbers). If you don't have the personnel to do that (and the Habs are stuck somewhere in the middle I'd say with some speed and skill guys), could it be better to go against the grain instead of trying to copy a whole bunch of other teams? There is no cookie cutter recipe for success, we've seen speed and skill win it all and we've seen teams like Boston and LA hit and grind their way to a Cup victory. The Habs seem to think teams like the latter can still win.

I don't necessarily agree that more grit is the way to go here but I can appreciate the school of thought that there is more than one way to build a team in this day and age, even if possession stats are the current trend. If you can't be towards the top of the class in one method, try a different way.

[habs rule]

I'm going to toss in a contrarian viewpoint here just for fun.

Not every team can be built the same way, with high possession players that put teams at the top of the Corsi/SAT% ratings (it's a mathematical impossibility to have 30 teams with positive possession numbers). If you don't have the personnel to do that (and the Habs are stuck somewhere in the middle I'd say with some speed and skill guys), could it be better to go against the grain instead of trying to copy a whole bunch of other teams? There is no cookie cutter recipe for success, we've seen speed and skill win it all and we've seen teams like Boston and LA hit and grind their way to a Cup victory. The Habs seem to think teams like the latter can still win.

I don't necessarily agree that more grit is the way to go here but I can appreciate the school of thought that there is more than one way to build a team in this day and age, even if possession stats are the current trend. If you can't be towards the top of the class in one method, try a different way.

I agree with what you say Brian, (shocking though that may be) however, dumb and dumber ( to use CC's term for them) have been at this for a while, we have some obvious needs, a scoring winger a big center. Instead we get some 4th line pluggers, and more 4th line pluggers oh and a bunch of dept defencemen. Are we on another 5 year rebuild? Signing Radioactive man may work but Le Genius has never shown that he can work with offensively gifted players. He loves 4th line pluggers. Apparently so does MB.

[Machine of Loving Grace]

I'm going to toss in a contrarian viewpoint here just for fun.

Not every team can be built the same way, with high possession players that put teams at the top of the Corsi/SAT% ratings (it's a mathematical impossibility to have 30 teams with positive possession numbers). If you don't have the personnel to do that (and the Habs are stuck somewhere in the middle I'd say with some speed and skill guys), could it be better to go against the grain instead of trying to copy a whole bunch of other teams? There is no cookie cutter recipe for success, we've seen speed and skill win it all and we've seen teams like Boston and LA hit and grind their way to a Cup victory. The Habs seem to think teams like the latter can still win.

I don't necessarily agree that more grit is the way to go here but I can appreciate the school of thought that there is more than one way to build a team in this day and age, even if possession stats are the current trend. If you can't be towards the top of the class in one method, try a different way.

In that case, Weber and Shaw is a lazy way to do it. They still have Plekanec, Desharnais, Mitchell, Carr, Danault, Andrighetto, Flynn, and more who do not play a grit game. Does this mean Emelin goes back to the top four? Gotta have his physicality over a Beaulieu or Barberio.

You can't switch two guys out and call it a new playing philosophy. This team will once again be playing against their grain. And it'll continue until Bergevin swaps out every possible player and Therrien finally has four lines of dump and chase hockey.

[DON]

In that case, Weber and Shaw is a lazy way to do it. They still have Plekanec, Desharnais, Mitchell, Carr, Danault, Andrighetto, Flynn, and more who do not play a grit game. Does this mean Emelin goes back to the top four? Gotta have his physicality over a Beaulieu or Barberio.

You can't switch two guys out and call it a new playing philosophy. This team will once again be playing against their grain. And it'll continue until Bergevin swaps out every possible player and Therrien finally has four lines of dump and chase hockey.

I doubt is what they are trying to achieve and 'lazy' way...WTH is that? Seems a very illogical and odd post.

[Commandant]

I'm going to toss in a contrarian viewpoint here just for fun.

Not every team can be built the same way, with high possession players that put teams at the top of the Corsi/SAT% ratings (it's a mathematical impossibility to have 30 teams with positive possession numbers). If you don't have the personnel to do that (and the Habs are stuck somewhere in the middle I'd say with some speed and skill guys), could it be better to go against the grain instead of trying to copy a whole bunch of other teams? There is no cookie cutter recipe for success, we've seen speed and skill win it all and we've seen teams like Boston and LA hit and grind their way to a Cup victory. The Habs seem to think teams like the latter can still win.

I don't necessarily agree that more grit is the way to go here but I can appreciate the school of thought that there is more than one way to build a team in this day and age, even if possession stats are the current trend. If you can't be towards the top of the class in one method, try a different way.

The thing is teams like LA and Boston were very high possession teams too. Just because you grind doesnt mean you cant have jeff carter, anze kopitar, dustin brown (before he fell off),etc... forechecking can be an effective strategy to have a high corsi number.

Its doubtful that a team with desharnais, plekanec, andrighetto, etc... can play the LA and Boston style game effectively though.

[habs rule]

The thing is teams like LA and Boston were very high possession teams too. Just because you grind doesnt mean you cant have jeff carter, anze kopitar, dustin brown (before he fell off),etc... forechecking can be an effective strategy to have a high corsi number.

Its doubtful that a team with desharnais, plekanec, andrighetto, etc... can play the LA and Boston style game effectively though.

Boston did not go the smurf route, we did.

[xXx..CK..xXx]

Boston did not go the smurf route, we did.

Random comment on my part but Krejci is no less of a smurf when compared with Plekanec. Apparently 6" vs 5"10 but he doesn't play big in my opinion.

Desharnais needs to go but he is an effective third liner.

Andrighetto has never been a core piece.

[Commandant]

Boston did not go the smurf route, we did.

And you can win that way too... see Chicago (their cup champs have always been amongst the smallest teams in the NHL, one year even being second smallest).

You've got to commit though... if you are gonna be speedy and skilled... play with the puck, don't dump and chase. Play a system based on never giving up the puck.

If you are gonna play the Bruins style, then get your possession by forechecking hard and forcing the other team into turnovers.

You can't be speedy, skilled and small and then decide you are going to give up the puck and forecheck and grind.... Building a Chicago team and asking them to play the Bruins style is a recipe for disaster.

[Link67]

In that case, Weber and Shaw is a lazy way to do it. They still have Plekanec, Desharnais, Mitchell, Carr, Danault, Andrighetto, Flynn, and more who do not play a grit game. Does this mean Emelin goes back to the top four? Gotta have his physicality over a Beaulieu or Barberio.

You can't switch two guys out and call it a new playing philosophy. This team will once again be playing against their grain. And it'll continue until Bergevin swaps out every possible player and Therrien finally has four lines of dump and chase hockey.

you are missing the point of the moves here really, they were not just a direct boost to grit per say, the guys that were brought in, even Radulov, are notoriously difficult guys to play against. Radulov has skill and strength and uses it well, Weber has nastiness and toughness, Shaw has tenacity for days and a never say die attitude each shift. The goal here has to be to shift the team into a team that was Harder to play against, not just grittier and bulky, its a philosophy, be hard to play against. They want a team that goes on the ice and has the other team thinking to themselves, this is gonna be grueling, and when you look at the swaps player for player, it looks like that is exactly what direction the moves went. You get Radulov with his strength and skill in the top 6 now instead of Andrighetto, Carr, Byron, or Weise. You get Weber and his intimidation, his toughness, and his mean streak instead of a finesse player like Subban. You get Shaw and his endless tenacity, a grittier but less scoring version of Gallagher instead of a finesse player like Eller.

Does this translate to a better team? we will find out, does it certainly shift our team's outlook towards a harder team to play against than last year? without a doubt in my opinion.

[Lovett's Magnatones]

And you can win that way too... see Chicago (their cup champs have always been amongst the smallest teams in the NHL, one year even being second smallest).

You've got to commit though... if you are gonna be speedy and skilled... play with the puck, don't dump and chase. Play a system based on never giving up the puck.

If you are gonna play the Bruins style, then get your possession by forechecking hard and forcing the other team into turnovers.

You can't be speedy, skilled and small and then decide you are going to give up the puck and forecheck and grind.... Building a Chicago team and asking them to play the Bruins style is a recipe for disaster.

Any team could win a Cup with Toews, Keith, and Kane. Size didn't have anything to do with it on either side of the argument. The height of their players is basically a fun fact.

[PMAC]

And you can win that way too... see Chicago (their cup champs have always been amongst the smallest teams in the NHL, one year even being second smallest).

You've got to commit though... if you are gonna be speedy and skilled... play with the puck, don't dump and chase. Play a system based on never giving up the puck.

If you are gonna play the Bruins style, then get your possession by forechecking hard and forcing the other team into turnovers.

You can't be speedy, skilled and small and then decide you are going to give up the puck and forecheck and grind.... Building a Chicago team and asking them to play the Bruins style is a recipe for disaster.

Annnnd, that is why I wanted Therrien canned at the end of last season. He does not know how to tailor his team's game plan to maximize his players strengths and minimize their weaknesses.

[xXx..CK..xXx]

I think a team can win the cup while rolling lines with different styles. Why does a team have to be only quick or only gritty? Why can't line 1 be finesse, line 2 speed, line 3, hustle and defend, line 4 play big/agitate? I'm sure there are stats out there that back up this speed vs size thing but trying to make a team successful over the long term while chasing a certain style is like trying to find the Holy Grail. I think Pittsburgh and Chicago have some of the best players of all time on their respective squads so they haven't only done well due to a specific method.

LA has been the closest to being a playoff dynasty team in recent history due to a specific style. I think teams like San Jose, Anaheim and ST Louis are trying to emulate it. Come to think of it, maybe the Habs are as well, though that wasn't my argument.

[The Chicoutimi Cucumber]

I don't believe that a team headed up by this pair of dummies can win the Cup...unless Carey Price wins it for them.

[Machine of Loving Grace]

I don't believe that a team headed up by this pair of dummies can win the Cup...unless Carey Price wins it for them.

Which is kind of the problem with "everything is forgiven if x" if Carey wins this all for Montreal he does what Dominik Hasek couldn't do (when he almost carried a mediocre Sabres to the Cup). It would all be about Carey. With management benefiting.

Last year was supposed to be proof the team would compliment Price instead of rely on him. Now they are junkies for him.

[DON]

Annnnd, that is why I wanted Therrien canned at the end of last season. He does not know how to tailor his team's game plan to maximize his players strengths and minimize their weaknesses.

But, he has won a ton of games with just 1 all-star goalie and 1 all-star d-man and big group of forwards who can barely find the net let alone score.

[xXx..CK..xXx]

I don't believe that a team headed up by this pair of dummies can win the Cup...unless Carey Price wins it for them.

Long story short: Montreal can win the cup.

[xXx..CK..xXx]

I sincerely don't feel there's a single team out there that comes into Montreal laughing while saying "hey there's that coach Therrien, hands down the worst in the league and their management has no idea what they're doing".

Especially Therrien. I'm not going to defend him because I'm a neutral on him but he's made the cup final before and has done some good in this league. Bergevin hasn't done anything yet but I do agree that within the hockey community in terms of the NHL and NHLPA and GMs, owners, etc., I doubt any one of them would think Bergevin or Poile are a complete fool for making the move they did. It's closer than people are willing to admit. One can mention the cons of the move but there are also pros.

It's mainly fans who are overreacting. My head hurt the day I heard about the trade but it's not a cataclysmic move and so this harsh criticism is overblown.

[Meller93]

Which is kind of the problem with "everything is forgiven if x" if Carey wins this all for Montreal he does what Dominik Hasek couldn't do (when he almost carried a mediocre Sabres to the Cup). It would all be about Carey. With management benefiting.

Last year was supposed to be proof the team would compliment Price instead of rely on him. Now they are junkies for him.

Fair, but still the cup is the cup In retrospect of winning I won't give a damn how we got there. I get upset before we have the cup though because of moves that I think hurt our chances of it becoming reality.