BCHabnut Posted February 22, 2021 Share Posted February 22, 2021 28 minutes ago, Commandant said: Its cause he sucks Hahaha Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomh009 Posted February 22, 2021 Share Posted February 22, 2021 22 hours ago, dlbalr said: There are a lot of 1B-type goalies in free agency - Raanta, Bernier, Rittich, Mrazek, Reimer, etc. Those would still be a step up on the likes of Niemi and Kinkaid. Those guys probably don't come much cheaper than Allen's new salary though. That's really it. Conceptually, I like Bernier, Mrazek or Raanta, but there is risk in switching goalies. And if the new one doesn't come any cheaper, why take tha risk? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alfredoh2009 Posted February 22, 2021 Share Posted February 22, 2021 4 hours ago, Commandant said: Its cause he sucks and he will not get much better with Primeau playing most of the time... it sucks for Lindgren too Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commandant Posted February 22, 2021 Share Posted February 22, 2021 9 hours ago, alfredoh2009 said: and he will not get much better with Primeau playing most of the time... it sucks for Lindgren too Hes 27 and has had 4 years of college and 4 years of AHL. Hes not getting better He was an undrafted free agent who played some NHL games... thats his ceiling. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GHT120 Posted February 22, 2021 Share Posted February 22, 2021 10 hours ago, alfredoh2009 said: and he will not get much better with Primeau playing most of the time... it sucks for Lindgren too 1 hour ago, Commandant said: Hes 27 and has had 4 years of college and 4 years of AHL. Hes not getting better He was an undrafted free agent who played some NHL games... thats his ceiling. EXACTLY ... but some cling to unrealistic expectations for Lindgren formed because he was a welcome surprise amid a HORRIBLE 17/18 season, despite an overall mediocre .908 Sv% ... IMO the same is true for Mete, although at 22 Mete at least still has a chance to improve ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeLassister Posted February 22, 2021 Share Posted February 22, 2021 On 2/20/2021 at 1:59 AM, hab29RETIRED said: his cap hit would be fine, IF Price was making $5M, or even $6M. $13.5M on goaltending is not sustainable - especially when you are also paying a 4th line winger over $3M Either you spend 13,5M on goalies or you have shitty backup. Can't really have both, or at least, without gambling on your backup hoping he turns out putting Ws all season long. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomh009 Posted February 22, 2021 Share Posted February 22, 2021 2 hours ago, GHT120 said: EXACTLY ... but some cling to unrealistic expectations for Lindgren formed because he was a welcome surprise amid a HORRIBLE 17/18 season, despite an overall mediocre .908 Sv% ... IMO the same is true for Mete, although at 22 Mete at least still has a chance to improve ... I'm not expecting Lindgren to be our future -- but I would rather play him than sign another Kinkaid. My preference is keeping Allen for the duration of his contract extension, assuming Seattle doesn't take him. .908 in 2017-18 was mid-pack for goalies who played at least half a dozen games. Better than Halak, Talbot, Holtby -- and Allen. 🙂 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alfredoh2009 Posted February 22, 2021 Share Posted February 22, 2021 23 minutes ago, tomh009 said: I'm not expecting Lindgren to be our future -- but I would rather play him than sign another Kinkaid. My preference is keeping Allen for the duration of his contract extension, assuming Seattle doesn't take him. .908 in 2017-18 was mid-pack for goalies who played at least half a dozen games. Better than Halak, Talbot, Holtby -- and Allen. 🙂 that was the point I was trying to make. The Habs lack depth at the G position going into the expansion draft where Allen is the most likely to be lost At worst, the Habs may need to rely on Lindgren Signing an UFA G to replace Allen would be preferable Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomh009 Posted February 22, 2021 Share Posted February 22, 2021 There is a significant risk that Allen will be lost, but I don't think it's a done deal. Seattle is going to try to optimize the entire team, and that means that they won't necessarily pick "the best player available" from any given team. And, unlike an entry draft, I don't think there is any realistic way to simulate and predict their picks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commandant Posted February 22, 2021 Share Posted February 22, 2021 3 hours ago, tomh009 said: I'm not expecting Lindgren to be our future -- but I would rather play him than sign another Kinkaid. My preference is keeping Allen for the duration of his contract extension, assuming Seattle doesn't take him. .908 in 2017-18 was mid-pack for goalies who played at least half a dozen games. Better than Halak, Talbot, Holtby -- and Allen. 🙂 And the 908 is an aberration in Lindgrens career as he has put up worse numbers every other campaign including his AhL campaigns. Hes not an NHL goalie and hes not better than what you would get in free agency with Allens 3M to.spend. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GHT120 Posted February 22, 2021 Share Posted February 22, 2021 4 hours ago, tomh009 said: I'm not expecting Lindgren to be our future -- but I would rather play him than sign another Kinkaid. My preference is keeping Allen for the duration of his contract extension, assuming Seattle doesn't take him. .908 in 2017-18 was mid-pack for goalies who played at least half a dozen games. Better than Halak, Talbot, Holtby -- and Allen. 🙂 I would also rather retain Allen ... but I would take a shot at the best available moderately priced veteran than keep a goalie I know can't carry any load ... that just pushes Price back near 70 games and leaves him burned out BTW ... IMO the mid-pack for goalies is, by definition, mediocre ... and as Commandant points out that .908 is his career best (other than .914 in his true rookie season with St John's in the AHL) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trizzak Posted April 10, 2021 Author Share Posted April 10, 2021 Bumping this thread because I've seen a great discussion on the forum about if Weber would be picked up by Seattle if he was unprotected at the expansion draft. I think he would be (and then flipped with salary retained), but it still might be worth the risk if Bergevin can bring in another top 4 defenseman with term at the trade deadline. The Habs aren't getting enough points from the back end, and the left side in particular is rough. I'd risk having a hole on the right side next season if it means filling a hole on the left this season. And who knows, maybe Allen is so far and away the best goalie available that Seattle feels they have to take him over Weber. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hab29RETIRED Posted April 10, 2021 Share Posted April 10, 2021 Even if Weber was exposed and not taken, I’d see if we could move him to Seattle, m exchange for picking another player that we’d have an interest in or picks. I think Seattle could move him and get a better return if they were willing to eat half his cap hit, with the assumption that a Weber only plays another two years and than retires. Not sure they’d be willing to take that cap hit for the all of the years he’s got remaining, if the feeling was that Weber wouldn’t any to retire and actually wanted to keep playing until he is 40, despite the low actual salary he is being paid during the later years of his contract. other option would be too see if Price was interested in moving and waive his NMC fir the draft (assuming he wants to be closer to his wife’s family) and than protect Allen. Either way, I don’t like over $18m in cap space on Price and Weber at the backend of their careers. I think the top 4 on our D needs to be rebuilt (just keep Petry and pick three other top 3). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomh009 Posted April 10, 2021 Share Posted April 10, 2021 5 hours ago, Trizzak said: The Habs aren't getting enough points from the back end, and the left side in particular is rough. Is this a real problem? I don’t know where to find this as a team stat, so I added up D goals and assists for the Habs and the Leafs. Points/game is very similar but our D have more goals (Petry!) while the Leafs have more assists. Am I looking at the wrong stat? Or do the Leafs have the same issue? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PMAC Posted April 10, 2021 Share Posted April 10, 2021 1 hour ago, tomh009 said: Is this a real problem? I don’t know where to find this as a team stat, so I added up D goals and assists for the Habs and the Leafs. Points/game is very similar but our D have more goals (Petry!) while the Leafs have more assists. Am I looking at the wrong stat? Or do the Leafs have the same issue? Lack of scoring from the D is not the problem. Lack of production from our top six is the big problem ( Drouin, Danault) with the secondary issue of having too many players like Lekhonen and Armia who have great skills but trouble scoring ( and yes, I am aware that Armia has been out for weeks with Covid). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prime Minister Koivu Posted April 10, 2021 Share Posted April 10, 2021 Our D does not offensively support our forwards the way they should. We truly lack puck movers Weber does not carry the puck and his outlet passes are not great. Edmundson is poor with the puck. Great stay at home guy Romanov has a great shot and will carry the puck. He will be great eventually but he ain’t there yet Mete will carry the puck no problem but unfortunately nothing ever comes of it Petry is a great breakout passer but average puck carrier Kulak carries puck well but he stops there and is never heavily involved in the offensive zone. We need a guy that can carry the puck and create offensive opportunities and we don’t have that Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commandant Posted April 10, 2021 Share Posted April 10, 2021 Disagree on Petry not carrying the puck enough... but the rest seems accurate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GHT120 Posted April 10, 2021 Share Posted April 10, 2021 1 minute ago, Prime Minister Koivu said: Our D does not offensively support our forwards the way they should. We truly lack puck movers Weber does not carry the puck and his outlet passes are not great. Edmundson is poor with the puck. Great stay at home guy Romanov has a great shot and will carry the puck. He will be great eventually but he ain’t there yet Mete will carry the puck no problem but unfortunately nothing ever comes of it Petry is a great breakout passer but average puck carrier Kulak carries puck well but he stops there and is never heavily involved in the offensive zone. We need a guy that can carry the puck and create offensive opportunities and we don’t have that Generally agree ... my tweaks would be that Weber does occasionally effectively carry the puck but consistently, so not a puck mover ... I think Petry is above average carrying the puck, but one is not enough ... Kulak does get involved but is inconsistent as to when and not always in the right way at the right time Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DON Posted April 10, 2021 Share Posted April 10, 2021 3 hours ago, tomh009 said: Is this a real problem? I don’t know where to find this as a team stat, so I added up D goals and assists for the Habs and the Leafs. Points/game is very similar but our D have more goals (Petry!) while the Leafs have more assists. Am I looking at the wrong stat? Or do the Leafs have the same issue? Habs-d 21g Tampa 16g Florida 23g Leafs 11g Jets 8g just for comparison Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GHT120 Posted April 10, 2021 Share Posted April 10, 2021 19 minutes ago, DON said: Habs-d 21g. 54 a Tampa 16g. 80 a Florida 23g. 71 a Leafs 11g. 72 a Jets 8g. 57 a just for comparison Since the discussion was points and the current roster discussion is the need to trade for a puck moving LHD I thought that assists might be relevant (inserted above) ... Habs defence has helped generate 17 fewer identifiable goals (i.e., for which assists were awarded) than the Panthers, 18 than the Leafs and 26 than the Lightning ... Ducharme preaches supporting each other on the ice and I am not certain the Habs defence is supporting the forwards in the generation of offence. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prime Minister Koivu Posted April 10, 2021 Share Posted April 10, 2021 2 hours ago, GHT120 said: Since the discussion was points and the current roster discussion is the need to trade for a puck moving LHD I thought that assists might be relevant (inserted above) ... Habs defence has helped generate 17 fewer identifiable goals (i.e., for which assists were awarded) than the Panthers, 18 than the Leafs and 26 than the Lightning ... Ducharme preaches supporting each other on the ice and I am not certain the Habs defence is supporting the forwards in the generation of offence. Yeah that is proof right there. Get us that puck carrier Bergevin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomh009 Posted April 10, 2021 Share Posted April 10, 2021 3 hours ago, GHT120 said: Since the discussion was points and the current roster discussion is the need to trade for a puck moving LHD I thought that assists might be relevant (inserted above) ... Habs defence has helped generate 17 fewer identifiable goals (i.e., for which assists were awarded) than the Panthers, 18 than the Leafs and 26 than the Lightning ... Ducharme preaches supporting each other on the ice and I am not certain the Habs defence is supporting the forwards in the generation of offence. If someone has the time, I would love to know whether those numbers are the same or different for Julien and Ducharme. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GHT120 Posted April 10, 2021 Share Posted April 10, 2021 8 minutes ago, tomh009 said: If someone has the time, I would love to know whether those numbers are the same or different for Julien and Ducharme. Count me out Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomh009 Posted April 11, 2021 Share Posted April 11, 2021 10 hours ago, GHT120 said: Since the discussion was points and the current roster discussion is the need to trade for a puck moving LHD I thought that assists might be relevant (inserted above) ... Habs defence has helped generate 17 fewer identifiable goals (i.e., for which assists were awarded) than the Panthers, 18 than the Leafs and 26 than the Lightning ... Ducharme preaches supporting each other on the ice and I am not certain the Habs defence is supporting the forwards in the generation of offence. I figured out how to get this from naturalstattrick.com -- and Ducharme's preaching is not working, at least not yet. 19 total assists for the D-men under Julien, but only 15 so far under Ducharme. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Posted April 11, 2021 Share Posted April 11, 2021 They should expose Weber and Drouin for sure. At this point just waiving Drouin is a win for cap space, 1 goal in the last 31. One mare than me during the same stretch. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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