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What goes around comes around Carolina pay back Kotkaniemi offer sheet


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12 minutes ago, Habs Fan in Edmonton said:

 

Agreed. I am not bothered at all that a 21 year old was a little ticked off about not playing. Montreal was the team that showed faith in him by drafting him 3rd overall.  He still has some growing up to do. 

Agreed.  He was brought in before he was ready. And even though he looked stronger last year, I think he still needed to be stinger on his skates. I think he’ll probably take another big step forward this year. And I’ll say it again. This upcoming season should actually have been his 2nd year in the league.

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3 minutes ago, JoeLassister said:

My feeling exactly. 
 

if MB believes KK is a future 6M$ player, then I think he should match. 
 

if not, take the pick and go after a Dvorak level player. 

And one of the questions to be asked is, would we been have been willing to trade KK fir Dvorak??  If the answer is no, is it because we expected KK’s salary to be a lot lower, or we expect him to be a much better player and have a much higher ceiling??

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So...here is where we sit.  (I don't know why I post.  GHT120 is just going to crap all over it, but WTF).

 

Drouin   Suzuki   Caufield

Hoffman  Evans   Gallagher

Toffoli  Paquette   Anderson

Lehkonen  Poehling   Armia

Perreault

(Byron injured)

 

Chiarot   Petry

Edmundson  Savard

Kulak  Romanov

Wideman

 

Price

Allen

 

Juggle them any way you want, but those are the 13 forwards, 7 d and 2 goaltenders we have right now.

 

Here is what I believe will happen -

 

Very little until mid season

 

Ducharme will have to see what this group can do.

 

if by some miracle they are in the playoff hunt - Bergevin will get creative.

 

If (likely) we are not! - Price (again) waves his NTC and will be moved to either Seattle or Colorado.  Trust me he WILL do it in that scenario (Colorado for obvious reasons for both Carey and the Avalanche - and in scenario 2 - assuming Seattle is in line for a playoff spot).

 

Unless this team really overachieves, Price will be gone by the trade deadline and the full on rebuild will be underway.  We, most likely, will need to retain some salary but will get picks and prospects that will help us be a powerhouse in 3-5 years...  (The smart move would be to deal Gallagher at the same time.  The style of game he plays means he only has a couple of good seasons left, but that will be fine for a team looking to make a serious run now).

 

Or GHT120 will think this will never happen.

 

 

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38 minutes ago, titanfan said:

So...here is where we sit.  (I don't know why I post.  GHT120 is just going to crap all over it, but WTF).

 

Drouin   Suzuki   Caufield

Hoffman  Evans   Gallagher

Toffoli  Paquette   Anderson

Lehkonen  Poehling   Armia

Perreault

(Byron injured)

 

Chiarot   Petry

Edmundson  Savard

Kulak  Romanov

Wideman

 

Price

Allen

 

Juggle them any way you want, but those are the 13 forwards, 7 d and 2 goaltenders we have right now.

 

Here is what I believe will happen -

 

Very little until mid season

 

Ducharme will have to see what this group can do.

 

if by some miracle they are in the playoff hunt - Bergevin will get creative.

 

If (likely) we are not! - Price (again) waves his NTC and will be moved to either Seattle or Colorado.  Trust me he WILL do it in that scenario (Colorado for obvious reasons for both Carey and the Avalanche - and in scenario 2 - assuming Seattle is in line for a playoff spot).

 

Unless this team really overachieves, Price will be gone by the trade deadline and the full on rebuild will be underway.  We, most likely, will need to retain some salary but will get picks and prospects that will help us be a powerhouse in 3-5 years...  (The smart move would be to deal Gallagher at the same time.  The style of game he plays means he only has a couple of good seasons left, but that will be fine for a team looking to make a serious run now).

 

Or GHT120 will think this will never happen.

 

 

I see Poehling more 2nd line center and Evans 3rd line center. That's if Kotkaniemi leaves. 

 

If we don't match and get a 1st and 3rd  that gives us extra picks to send an offer sheet to someone else. Some key names are...

 

Dahlin 

Tkachuk 

Pettersson 

Hughes 

 

I wonder if buffalo would match Dahlin at 6mil 

 

Or if Vancouver would match Pettersson at 6mil 

 

Tkachuk and Hughes contract I would think would have to be close to what we gave aho might cost us too much. But I would gamble on Dahlin or Pettersson. 

 

 

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46 minutes ago, nihilz said:

I say, Bergy should match. Then sit him in the press box all year. Trade him next off season.

That’s a brilliant move, let’s sit him in the press box so that he doesn’t produce. Than have to either let him become a UFA, ir qualify him at $6m, ir $5.8m, or whatever the amount is. Than we wait when we are allowed to trade him on Aug 27 or 28, and naturally his value should be real high.  Yep, that’s definitely the right move to make 🙄🤭

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48 minutes ago, Habsfan89 said:

I see Poehling more 2nd line center and Evans 3rd line center. That's if Kotkaniemi leaves. 

 

If we don't match and get a 1st and 3rd  that gives us extra picks to send an offer sheet to someone else. Some key names are...

 

Dahlin 

Tkachuk 

Pettersson 

Hughes 

 

I wonder if buffalo would match Dahlin at 6mil 

 

Or if Vancouver would match Pettersson at 6mil 

 

Tkachuk and Hughes contract I would think would have to be close to what we gave aho might cost us too much. But I would gamble on Dahlin or Pettersson. 

 

 

Vancouver would thank us for Patterson at $6m. you have to overpay to get an RFA, at $6m, MB is not only doing Bennington job for him, Benning would probably buy MB a Ferrari for getting him out of cap hell with a sweetheart deal.  Now, the chances of Patterson accepting that offer are probably less than zero.
 

Buffalo would have to match, because they don’t have much left other than unmovable overpaid bums like Skinner, and won’t get full value for Eichal.

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20 minutes ago, hab29RETIRED said:

Vancouver would thank us for Patterson at $6m. you have to overpay to get an RFA, at $6m, MB is not only doing Bennington job for him, Benning would probably buy MB a Ferrari for getting him out of cap hell with a sweetheart deal.  Now, the chances of Patterson accepting that offer are probably less than zero.
 

Buffalo would have to match, because they don’t have much left other than unmovable overpaid bums like Skinner, and won’t get full value for Eichal.

 

I wonder what we could throw at Pettersson that would be too much for Van but still within the realm of the comprehensible. $8? 8.5?

 

He’s a PPG C, maybe we should just go all in…

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5 hours ago, hab29RETIRED said:

Is start with one of Edmondson, Chiarot, or Savard. Hoffman is another option. I don’t think Gallagher is going to bring value for half of his contract and is an option that can actually bring back high value and can be a chip to upgrade the D. You see if you can entice someone to take Byron for a pick.  Drouin is another one. We have a lot of wingers.
 

You are talking as if we have the 70’s dynasty. There aren’t many untouchables on this team.  You have Suzuki, and Caufield as definite untouchables, and Romanov should let be moved unless the return is extremely high. Everyone else is movable. Hell if it looks like we are out of the playoffs, and orice is back and playing well and we still suck, but no knows, he be willing to waive his NMC.

 

That's not a lineup but a few names thrown out with the recycling bin.

 

And no, I never took our Habs for the 70s dynasty because I am not that old to remember them and not that dumb to mistake one for the other.

 

Your suggestion of trading one of our top D for picks or prospects to comply with the cap while keeping a centre that hasn't proven anything yet is the best way to go.

 

I will politely disagree, I'll spare you the hyperbole ...

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3 hours ago, titanfan said:

So...here is where we sit.  (I don't know why I post.  GHT120 is just going to crap all over it, but WTF).

 

Drouin   Suzuki   Caufield

Hoffman  Evans   Gallagher

Toffoli  Paquette   Anderson

Lehkonen  Poehling   Armia

Perreault

(Byron injured)

 

Chiarot   Petry

Edmundson  Savard

Kulak  Romanov

Wideman

 

Price

Allen

 

Juggle them any way you want, but those are the 13 forwards, 7 d and 2 goaltenders we have right now.

 

Here is what I believe will happen -

 

Very little until mid season

 

Ducharme will have to see what this group can do.

 

if by some miracle they are in the playoff hunt - Bergevin will get creative.

 

If (likely) we are not! - Price (again) waves his NTC and will be moved to either Seattle or Colorado.  Trust me he WILL do it in that scenario (Colorado for obvious reasons for both Carey and the Avalanche - and in scenario 2 - assuming Seattle is in line for a playoff spot).

 

Unless this team really overachieves, Price will be gone by the trade deadline and the full on rebuild will be underway.  We, most likely, will need to retain some salary but will get picks and prospects that will help us be a powerhouse in 3-5 years...  (The smart move would be to deal Gallagher at the same time.  The style of game he plays means he only has a couple of good seasons left, but that will be fine for a team looking to make a serious run now).

 

Or GHT120 will think this will never happen.

 

 

 

I like your lineup, I would only swap Toffoli with Hoffman, jut to have all the strong two way players in one line. It's a bubble team alright, but one that will get stronger through the draft with multiple picks next year when there are many good prospects according to may sources.

 

I don't think Price needs to be gone by the trade deadline, it may happen, but I do not think is certain to happen.

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5 hours ago, dlbalr said:

 

But why pay up to $4.1 million for Brown when you can get him for less than $1 million by flipping a prospect Ottawa's way?  That's throwing a lot of money away for no good reason.  That's not even mentioning that he's not an NHL-calibre player.  And in Patrick's case, he may be no better than a guy like Evans or Poehling at the moment but he's the only semi-viable target off your list since Buffalo and Vancouver would match on their players (Pettersson wouldn't even sign unless it was in a higher range).

 

OK, I got carried away on offer sheeting any centre RFA still available....

 

point taken 👍

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1 hour ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said:

 

I wonder what we could throw at Pettersson that would be too much for Van but still within the realm of the comprehensible. $8? 8.5?

 

He’s a PPG C, maybe we should just go all in…

First of all, Unlike MB, despite picking up Ekman-Larsson’s salary, from what I read, Benning has cleared enough salary leaving him for around $13m for Hughes, and Patterson and Hughes isn’t an RFA until next year. So you’d have to offer at least $10m, for them to even consider not matching , and I still they match. 
issue is, are we confident that we are a playoff team next year?  
 

secondly, the Next two drafts are pretty good. Last thing you want is to lose a lottery pick next year or the year after.

 

lastly, we can’t afford to offer that much. Not with price making $10.5m. If you are going to have a couple of guys making that much you can’t be paying for hat we ar paying to three dmen like Savard, Edmondson and Chiarot, in addition to what Petry is making. You also can’t be paying what we are to Drouin, Gallagher, Taffoli, Byron, and Hoffman, when you have Suzuki set to be a RFA next year and Caufield’s contract is up the year after (although I think he doesn’t actually become an RFA until after 2024.

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53 minutes ago, alfredoh2009 said:

 

That's not a lineup but a few names thrown out with the recycling bin.

 

And no, I never took our Habs for the 70s dynasty because I am not that old to remember them and not that dumb to mistake one for the other.

 

Your suggestion of trading one of our top D for picks or prospects to comply with the cap while keeping a centre that hasn't proven anything yet is the best way to go.

 

I will politely disagree, I'll spare you the hyperbole ...

We only have one legit “top” D. The rest are replaceable pieces. We don’t have a Hedman, McDonough, or Sergechev. We have a petry snd a bunch of nobody’s.

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47 minutes ago, alfredoh2009 said:

 

I like your lineup, I would only swap Toffoli with Hoffman, jut to have all the strong two way players in one line. It's a bubble team alright, but one that will get stronger through the draft with multiple picks next year when there are many good prospects according to may sources.

 

I don't think Price needs to be gone by the trade deadline, it may happen, but I do not think is certain to happen.

If you think that lineup with those centres is a playoff team, I have a bridge on the golf course by my house that You might think is better than the Brooklyn bridge….

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22 minutes ago, hab29RETIRED said:

If you think that lineup with those centres is a playoff team, I have a bridge on the golf course by my house that You might think is better than the Brooklyn bridge….

send pictures, may be nicer on the eyes than some of your posts :ph34r:

 

Sorry @hab29RETIRED , that was uncalled for

 

I am not crazy or stupid, I just don't think loosing KK is the end of the world. He may turn up t be a 50 point guy tis year and a 70 point guy at some point. But not worth $6.1M/2years right now

 

there are better options for the team than that

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6 hours ago, hab29RETIRED said:

First of all, Unlike MB, despite picking up Ekman-Larsson’s salary, from what I read, Benning has cleared enough salary leaving him for around $13m for Hughes, and Patterson and Hughes isn’t an RFA until next year. So you’d have to offer at least $10m, for them to even consider not matching , and I still they match. 
issue is, are we confident that we are a playoff team next year? 

 

Hughes is actually an RFA now (not offer sheet-eligible).  They have around $12M in space not including Ferland's LTIR-bound $3.5M.  They can't afford to sign both long-term so one's getting a long-term deal, the other a bridge.  I agree that it'd have to pass $10M for them to have any pause on matching which is why I don't see them going that route.

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10 hours ago, titanfan said:

So...here is where we sit.  (I don't know why I post.  GHT120 is just going to crap all over it, but WTF).

 

Drouin   Suzuki   Caufield

Hoffman  Evans   Gallagher

Toffoli  Paquette   Anderson

Lehkonen  Poehling   Armia

Perreault

(Byron injured)

 

Chiarot   Petry

Edmundson  Savard

Kulak  Romanov

Wideman

 

Price

Allen

 

Juggle them any way you want, but those are the 13 forwards, 7 d and 2 goaltenders we have right now.

 

Here is what I believe will happen -

 

Very little until mid season

 

Ducharme will have to see what this group can do.

 

if by some miracle they are in the playoff hunt - Bergevin will get creative.

 

If (likely) we are not! - Price (again) waves his NTC and will be moved to either Seattle or Colorado.  Trust me he WILL do it in that scenario (Colorado for obvious reasons for both Carey and the Avalanche - and in scenario 2 - assuming Seattle is in line for a playoff spot).

 

Unless this team really overachieves, Price will be gone by the trade deadline and the full on rebuild will be underway.  We, most likely, will need to retain some salary but will get picks and prospects that will help us be a powerhouse in 3-5 years...  (The smart move would be to deal Gallagher at the same time.  The style of game he plays means he only has a couple of good seasons left, but that will be fine for a team looking to make a serious run now).

 

Or GHT120 will think this will never happen.

 

Fear me not good people of HabsWorld.net, fear me not. For it is I the great and powerful GHT120!
 -  paraphrasing Wizard of Oz

 

For what the Habs have, I think those are reasonable lines/pairings ... the challenge for MB being able to "get creative" ***if*** the miracle were to present itself (beyond my lack of faith in him doing so in-season) is managing the cap to optimize the Weber LTIR exemption available at that time.

 

As for Price ... I would love it if he did waive his NTC ... as constituted the Habs are 2-4 years away from being anything but, at best, a one&done contender (IMO), more likely a series of 10-16 draft picks ... and that wastes Price ... but moving $10.5M AAV in-season (even with retained AAV) would be very tough ... and I can agree on Gallagher as well ... but trading $6.5M AAV for 6 years would also be challenging ... and I don't know that MB could bring himself to  make either trade unless the players forced his hand ... those moves would also (IMO) signal an actual rebuild ...  perhaps best to have a new, non-exhausted GM undertake it.

 

 

 

 

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Apologies if this has previously been raised ... but would matching the offer sheet bring back an unhappy/frustrated/bitter kotkaniemi ... forcing him to play where he does not to be?  

 

We don't know ... until he signed the offer sheet, every suggestion that KK wanted out was "reading the tea leaves" / parsing words / reading between the lines / etc. ... the offer sheet shows at very least that he is willing to leave.

 

But MB et al should have a good idea ... *** IF *** KK truly "wants out" then I doubt the Habs match ... not that KK would not want to perform as best he can, if for no other reason than to increase his future value, having a highly paid, selfish malcontent would not be great for a team whose 20/21 playoff success was based on in not insignificant part on the proverbial "tight locker room".

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16 minutes ago, GHT120 said:

Apologies if this has previously been raised ... but would matching the offer sheet bring back an unhappy/frustrated/bitter kotkaniemi ... forcing him to play where he does not to be?  

 

We don't know ... until he signed the offer sheet, every suggestion that KK wanted out was "reading the tea leaves" / parsing words / reading between the lines / etc. ... the offer sheet shows at very least that he is willing to leave.

 

He was given an offer "he couldnt refuse" and one no NHLer, in his skates (sorry), would of turned down, wasnt he?

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What a debacle this has turned out to be with KK. I expect we'll match because we can't let our #3 overall pick just leave for nearly nothing. Either way we're screwed. Bergy's asinine offer sheet comes back to bite us.  

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13 minutes ago, DON said:

He was given an offer "he couldnt refuse" and one no NHLer, in his skates (sorry), would of turned down, wasnt he?

Didn't say he wasn't ... but I do not believe every offer sheet submitted to a player is signed ... but he had to be willing to change teams to sign it ... the point of my post was that none of us can know whether KK would even want to returns or would be brilliantly happy to do so ... but his mindset could play a role in what Habs decide as they have a "behind to curtain" perspective.

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11 minutes ago, Neech said:

What a debacle this has turned out to be with KK. I expect we'll match because we can't let our #3 overall pick just leave for nearly nothing. Either way we're screwed. Bergy's asinine offer sheet comes back to bite us.  

Or ... MB's hardball negotiations with KK prevented a bridge deal that would have avoided the 'Canes having the opportunity to make the offer.

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6 minutes ago, GHT120 said:

Or ... MB's hardball negotiations with KK prevented a bridge deal that would have avoided the 'Canes having the opportunity to make the offer.

Likely we will never know.

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