2022 NHL Offseason Thread

[tomh009]

3 hours ago, DON said:

Reports of insane hazing going on in the CHL (i think it was OHL players coming out on that?) was pretty sad to hear as well, just how low they can sink in depravity...again assume with blind eye from the adults in charge.

I don't think it'll be just CHL, either. Many/most sports will have similar problems, particularly team sports.

[GHT120]

4 hours ago, Peter Puck said:

   I have to say that I think it is missing the point to say that Hockey Canada is a cesspool of toxic culture and also placing the blame in the wrong spot. 

 

  HC has control of these players for something like a month a year.  This is not where the problem lies.  The root of the problem is in junior (and possibly) minor hockey.  Yet no one is calling for the people running these leagues to all be fired.   

 

It will never all get done at once ... so start at the top of the pyramid, set an example and then work down from there. 

[huzer]

4 hours ago, Peter Puck said:

   I have to say that I think it is missing the point to say that Hockey Canada is a cesspool of toxic culture and also placing the blame in the wrong spot. 

 

  HC has control of these players for something like a month a year.  This is not where the problem lies.  The root of the problem is in junior (and possibly) minor hockey.  Yet no one is calling for the people running these leagues to all be fired.   

 

Completely agree. It starts much lower than HC. As I said before, these kids generally start being left alone in locker rooms once they can tie their own skates. These athletes should be 100% supervised through all levels of minor hockey. No good can EVER come from a gathering of 20 or so 12-18 year old boys with no supervision, whether it's sport related or not. And then once adults start reinforcing how "special" top athletes are, well, you're also reinforcing that they can do no wrong.

 

Will supervision cure all ills? No. But it will certainly nip quite a few before they become larger problems.

[hab29RETIRED]

https://www.thescore.com/nhl/news/2394472

 

so much for Huberdeau wanting to be a hab

[BCHabnut]

7 minutes ago, hab29RETIRED said:

https://www.thescore.com/nhl/news/2394472

 

so much for Huberdeau wanting to be a hab

Phew. Dodged that bullet.

[Habs Fan in Edmonton]

11 minutes ago, BCHabnut said:

Phew. Dodged that bullet.

 

I am certainly fine with this, I wish him the best in Calgary and happy for the fans there. 

[GHT120]

8 hours ago, BCHabnut said:

Phew. Dodged that bullet.

 

Tend to agree ... not certain I see Huberdeau as a $10.5M AAV player ... it will be interesting to see how he does this season when he is the unquestionable "lead dog".

[hab29RETIRED]

46 minutes ago, GHT120 said:

 

Tend to agree ... not certain I see Huberdeau as a $10.5M AAV player ... it will be interesting to see how he does this season when he is the unquestionable "lead dog".

I don’t see why he wouldn’t be able to be a 85-100 point guy for the next 3-4 years. It’s the last 4-5 years that will be left on the contract that would scare me.

[alfredoh2009]

Gallagher , makes me think about Gally

 

if only he could better manage his energy on ice and find his health

[DON]

11 minutes ago, alfredoh2009 said:

Gallagher , makes me think about Gally

 

if only he could better manage his energy on ice and find his health

Yes, even a 15g season from him would seem a bonus.

[The Chicoutimi Cucumber]

1 hour ago, hab29RETIRED said:

I don’t see why he wouldn’t be able to be a 85-100 point guy for the next 3-4 years. It’s the last 4-5 years that will be left on the contract that would scare me.

 

He’s an elite performer…when you have those guys, you gotta pay to keep ‘em. And yes, the back end of the contract will be the problem, as is usually the case. Still, he’ll be 37 when it’s over, and it’s not unheard of for impact players to keep producing well into their 30s. It could only really suck in the last 2-3 years. If I were a contender and he was a key piece, I’d sign him to that deal.

 

Huberdeau is an interesting case. Brought up young, at 19 or whatever, he gradually improved - which I tend to take as the key indicator, and why I’ve been skeptical about guys like Drouin and KK - but really didn’t start putting up elite results until his 7th NHL season. That’s a loooong time to start playing up to your potential. I’m not sure what it says about him as a player, if anything. Will he have a long back-9, because his game is rooted in intelligence as much as raw talent? Do the numbers show a “weathervane” player who only produces at top level if he’s well surrounded? Or was he a simple late bloomer? Beats me.

[alfredoh2009]

36 minutes ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said:

 

He’s an elite performer…when you have those guys, you gotta pay to keep ‘em. And yes, the back end of the contract will be the problem, as is usually the case. Still, he’ll be 37 when it’s over, and it’s not unheard of for impact players to keep producing well into their 30s. It could only really suck in the last 2-3 years. If I were a contender and he was a key piece, I’d sign him to that deal.

 

Huberdeau is an interesting case. Brought up young, at 19 or whatever, he gradually improved - which I tend to take as the key indicator, and why I’ve been skeptical about guys like Drouin and KK - but really didn’t start putting up elite results until his 7th NHL season. That’s a loooong time to start playing up to your potential. I’m not sure what it says about him as a player, if anything. Will he have a long back-9, because his game is rooted in intelligence as much as raw talent? Do the numbers show a “weathervane” player who only produces at top level if he’s well surrounded? Or was he a simple late bloomer? Beats me.

Is development of elite talent as much Voodoo as for goalies?

outside top-3 can’t miss prospects

[tomh009]

10 minutes ago, alfredoh2009 said:

Is development of elite talent as much Voodoo as for goalies?

outside top-3 can’t miss prospects

Top 3 picks aren't really can't-miss prospects, either, plenty of busts among those, too. The probability is better but it's certainly not 100%.

[huzer]

20 minutes ago, alfredoh2009 said:

Is development of elite talent as much Voodoo as for goalies?

outside top-3 can’t miss prospects

 

Goalies are in interesting case, and I'd suggest starting in youth/minor hockey is where it stems from. The emphasis on size, rather than ability, starts at that level. Call it the Mighty Ducks syndrome, where the biggest, but maybe not the most talented kid, is put in net because odds are greater that the puck will merely hit him. I'm sure that emphasizing size, with limited coaching/etc, impacts early development much more than it impacts skaters. 

 

It's such a shame that goalies get labeled with weird/voodoo at such a young age, which almost dictates to an impressionable kid that yes, being a goalie IS weird. Wanna know why goalies are voodoo? Because unlike any other position in hockey, it's ignored developmentally until older/higher levels of hockey.

 

 

[The Chicoutimi Cucumber]

42 minutes ago, huzer said:

 

Goalies are in interesting case, and I'd suggest starting in youth/minor hockey is where it stems from. The emphasis on size, rather than ability, starts at that level. Call it the Mighty Ducks syndrome, where the biggest, but maybe not the most talented kid, is put in net because odds are greater that the puck will merely hit him. I'm sure that emphasizing size, with limited coaching/etc, impacts early development much more than it impacts skaters. 

 

It's such a shame that goalies get labeled with weird/voodoo at such a young age, which almost dictates to an impressionable kid that yes, being a goalie IS weird. Wanna know why goalies are voodoo? Because unlike any other position in hockey, it's ignored developmentally until older/higher levels of hockey.

 

 

 

Very perceptive post. I suspect that, a few years from now, people will look back on this "goaltending is voodoo" idea as a bizarre form of negligence. It's the most important position in the game, and the hockey minds that crack the development code are going to have an advantage over the rest.  I just can't believe that 20 years from now, this "what can you do, it's all a mystery" mindset will remain in place.

[Habs Fan in Edmonton]

38 minutes ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said:

 

Very perceptive post. I suspect that, a few years from now, people will look back on this "goaltending is voodoo" idea as a bizarre form of negligence. It's the most important position in the game, and the hockey minds that crack the development code are going to have an advantage over the rest.  I just can't believe that 20 years from now, this "what can you do, it's all a mystery" mindset will remain in place.

 

I just think with goalies is that a huge part of it is confidence.  Playing in front of a bad team can destroy your confidence so I think it takes longer for goalies to develop the mental toughness to adapt to different types of teams.  Marty Brodeur will go in history as one of the best goalies ever but if he had been playing on a different team rather than the disciplined defensive oriented Devils would we still have the same opinion?  Would he have developed as well?  

 

 

[GHT120]

1 minute ago, Habs Fan in Edmonton said:

... Playing in front of a bad team can destroy your confidence so I think it takes longer for goalies to develop the mental toughness to adapt to different types of teams ...

 

There is also a theory that playing behind a bad team in junior (e.g., Patrick Roy) aids in the development of a goalie's skills (i.e., facing more shots means more chances to try to make saves) ... but once in the NHL I would agree that a bad team can beat down a goalie's confidence.

[Commandant]

I do think that so much of goaltending, more than any other position, is body control.

 

Most goalies are big.  So they had vig growth spurts as teenagers.

 

Thats why it takes a little longer.  Gotta get used to the new body.

 

Goalie is a position where mistakes are magnified (they are goals against), where they arent for forwards and D.  So that comes into it too.

[tomh009]

And the need for mental strength is magnified, too: playing with a bad team or just bad D means that you need to be able to overcome the disappointments and frustrations.

 

Playing goal is, like in many other team sports, the one individual role on a team, and that magnifies all those aspects. (Pitchers, bowlers and QBs are similar though not as critical to the team's success, I think.)

[huzer]

17 minutes ago, tomh009 said:

And the need for mental strength is magnified, too: playing with a bad team or just bad D means that you need to be able to overcome the disappointments and frustrations.

 

Playing goal is, like in many other team sports, the one individual role on a team, and that magnifies all those aspects. (Pitchers, bowlers and QBs are similar though not as critical to the team's success, I think.)

 

I consider goalie mental strength and focus very similar to golfing. It's that singular focus, and being able to let go of the mistakes/goals/etc. Braden Holtby and his water bottle squirts, or a golfer following the same shot routine every time to get where they need to be mentally. That's a hard concept at a young age. Heck, it can be a hard concept at any age. Short memories, that's what's required.

 

Goaltending is something I think about quite a bit. And much like the "old school hockey culture" for some of the issues present today, it's there in a different capacity for the position of goaltending. I've shown up at practices and hear coaches, including former NHL players that are now coaches, simply stating "I don't know what to do with a goalie for practice". As I navigate through different hockey associations, it's appalling to me how many will tell me "we don't really have any goalie coaching in house, I think most of the kids do private lessons."

 

Yes, I know, once kids are playing JR/USHL/etc, those programs have dedicated goalie coaches. I just think there would be much less of a mystique around the position, and about predicting future success of goaltenders, if kids received a modicum of attention, rather than relying on being a stationary big target, or being overly athletic, to enjoy success at the beginning of their goalie careers.

 

[DON]

An argument for trading for Dubois now.

https://cheeringthelogo.ca/2022/08/05/huberdeau-deal-supports-habs-not-waiting-on-dubois/

[hab29RETIRED]

1 hour ago, DON said:

An argument for trading for Dubois now.

https://cheeringthelogo.ca/2022/08/05/huberdeau-deal-supports-habs-not-waiting-on-dubois/

It’s a pretty dumb argument. Largely cantered on Dubois agent saying he wants to play for Montreal - which isn’t exactly what he said. If he REALLY wants to play in Montreal he will wait.

 

the other faulty part of the argument is that Huberdeau signed now instead of waiting because he felt wanted, and liked the situation there. Two problems with that argument. He actually hasn’t played a a single game there yet. Has no idea how chemistry there will be with his teammates or Sutter (I think Sutter is the primary reason Gaudreau left. Yes he had his best year under Sutter, but Sutter specifically called out - during two of the flames playoffs losses saying he had chances and didn’t get the job done, and in two other games said his best players didn’t play as well as the other teams best players). Huberdeau signed in Calgary, because that is only team that was going to, or could give him $10.5m for EIGHT years and will pay him that amount until he is friggin 38 years old. Huberdeau just had a career season, that he is unlikely to match again. He wanted to cash in while he could, and Calgary was in a desperate situation after their two best players refused to resign. 

 

I’m sick and tired of all of these articles dreaming about and suggesting the habs chase every Francophone superstar - which there really aren’t a lot left. We made that mistake chasing after and giving too much money to a washed up Briere and than trading a stud D prospect for Drouin, and than signed him to a bloated contract he hadn’t earned.

 

let’s just stay the course. Draft AND develop well, and not give up assets chasing the Francophone saviour. If Dubois really wants to play in Montreal, let him prove it by waiting two years and sign for a contract that isn’t going to stupid. No reason to give up picks or prospects, until we are in a position to contend.

[Habs Fan in Edmonton]

53 minutes ago, hab29RETIRED said:

let’s just stay the course. Draft AND develop well, and not give up assets chasing the Francophone saviour. If Dubois really wants to play in Montreal, let him prove it by waiting two years and sign for a contract that isn’t going to stupid. No reason to give up picks or prospects, until we are in a position to contend.

 

Agreed, Dubois will cost a lot right now. Maybe Dach will really turn into something and this conversation will be irrelevant. Stay the course. 

 

I am not a fan of chasing Dubois unless the cost is a lot cheaper than I think it will be.  Winnipeg will have to save face so they will demand a lot coming back, not a bunch of veterans whose contracts the Habs want to dump. 

[DON]

Suzy on next 2 yrs:

"...I think that we can be pretty competitive next year even with the style that we play. I think we can surprise a lot of teams and maybe the year after, we can add a few pieces and try and make the playoffs. So that’s kind of my vision;..."

 

https://montrealhockeynow.com/2022/08/06/montreal-canadiens-nick-suzuki-enjoyed-another-first-round-exit-for-leafs/

[DON]

Well, how will Gallagher & Drouin do after a nice long off-season? Wil all their talk about new and better year pan out, or be just talk. 

At least Hoffman & Armia arnt babbling to the media that they will should have more productive season upcoming.

We all know Hoffman aint changing, but would be awsome if he can play & score well enough to be marketable at trade deadline.

Armia maybe can rebound with a half-decent 10-15g year.