2023-24 Montreal Canadiens Discussion Thread

[tomh009]

... or a Chelios/Savard trade!

[alfredoh2009]

Multiple reporters giving their opinion on MSL's comments, that is has been the the best 5-6 game sequence of the season. I am surprised that many of hte reporters that are usually positive on MSL seem to be calling him out.

 

The RDS panled (Damphouse, Carboneau, Flynn) compared the Habs to the PHI and how Tortorella was able to get the team to push for a playoff spot with a team as poorly staffed as MTL. They also commented on how the youngest players have made individual progress but that the veterans are not playing their best as if they are just waiting for the trade deadline. They didn't say this, I am making the leap in saying that the veterans may have checked out for this season.

 

Quote

« Côté rendement sur la glace, c’est la meilleure séquence de 5-6 matchs qu’on a joué. Mais ça ne garantit pas une victoire. »

J’adore Martin St-Louis et il nous donne beaucoup chaque jour en entrevues…mais faut aussi avouer que c’est tout un vendeur. Je pense qu’il réussirait à faire manger du steak à @GeorgesLaraque ! https://t.co/LktT571e1q

— Luc Gelinas (@LucGelinasRDS) February 26, 2024

 

"As far as how we're performing on the ice, this is our best run of five or six straight games this season." - Martin St. Louis, this morning.

He's not necessarily wrong. I looked at the Canadiens' weird losing streak as part of my weekly notebook today: https://t.co/e596w8w3W3

— Arpon Basu (@ArponBasu) February 26, 2024

 

 

Discours polarisant de l’entraîneur-chef aujourd’hui.

Les résultats ne sont pas au rendez-vous, mais Martin St-Louis refuse de ne regarder que le score final…https://t.co/1alJC47A0a

— Patrick Friolet (@PFrioletRDS) February 27, 2024

 

[hockeyrealist]

Anyone know the stats on when 14/22 put up their points during a game?

 

i like both players so this is not me knocking them but my eyes seems to believe these two (particularly 14) seem to be amassing a significant portion of their points when the game is essentially out of reach, late in game, down by a couple.

Anyone have any opinion / info on this?

I’m curious, but not enough so to do the research myself.  

My theory is that once opponent’s ease off on offensive pressure and take a more passive defensive approach to protect a lead is when 14/22 seem to get their best looks, sustained o zone pressure, ultimately points.

They obv create earlier in games as well, but the eye test tells me they cash in more when trailing (although I suppose they are always trailing…)

 

My worry is that if this is so, will they ever be able to produce early and often enough to be winners instead of happy to be competitive?

[GHT120]

3 hours ago, alfredoh2009 said:

Multiple reporters giving their opinion on MSL's comments, that is has been the the best 5-6 game sequence of the season. I am surprised that many of hte reporters that are usually positive on MSL seem to be calling him out.

 

The RDS panled (Damphouse, Carboneau, Flynn) compared the Habs to the PHI and how Tortorella was able to get the team to push for a playoff spot with a team as poorly staffed as MTL. They also commented on how the youngest players have made individual progress but that the veterans are not playing their best as if they are just waiting for the trade deadline. They didn't say this, I am making the leap in saying that the veterans may have checked out for this season.

 

 

 

 

 

The $64,000 Question is ... do you agree with them all (even most) of the time or only when they agree with your perspective?

[alfredoh2009]

15 minutes ago, GHT120 said:

The $64,000 Question is ... do you agree with them all (even most) of the time or only when they agree with your perspective?

 

I said I would reserve my judgement of the rebuild until next year, but I have been critical lately of MSL for a few weeks now.

I brought this to the forum because I am surprised so many reporters, many of which have been very forgiving of the Habs handing of the team and prospects... I am surprised to see so many of them start to grumble and voice ceoncerns.

 

Maybe it is click bait from them (the got me if so), maybe it is a slow week leading to the trade deadline. I don;t know. I am just surprised.

[The Chicoutimi Cucumber]

It’s probably good that there’s a bit of push-back, because I think most of us agree that next season the team needs to start flipping the switch from “development” to “winning some hockey games.” The media is, in effect, gently warning them that a shift in fan patience is imminent.

 

As for this season, I really believe that MSL is overwhelmingly focused on how the kids are doing and doesn’t lose too much sleep over the veterans. When he says “this is our best stretch,” he probably means that the kids are playing the way he wants them to and demonstrating the learning he wants to see. And that’s fine - for now.

 

I can’t really blame the vets for checking out, either - assuming them to have done so. They know the Habs are sellers, so on a human level, it’s got to be tough not knowing what your fate is.

[Commandant]

10 minutes ago, alfredoh2009 said:

 

I said I would reserve my judgement of the rebuild until next year, but I have been critical lately of MSL for a few weeks now.

I brought this to the forum because I am surprised so many reporters, many of which have been very forgiving of the Habs handing of the team and prospects... I am surprised to see so many of them start to grumble and voice ceoncerns.

 

Maybe it is click bait from them (the got me if so), maybe it is a slow week leading to the trade deadline. I don;t know. I am just surprised.

 

You said you would reserve judgment but everyone here knows your conclusion.  So did you really reserve judgment?

[Commandant]

MSL isnt wrong though.  The advanced stats show the team is playing better during this losing streak than they were playing before.

 

The biggest difference is that the goaltending has fallen off.  For about a month now, Montembault isnt pulling off heroics hes done earlier in the season.  Allen has been terrible, and Primeau has played about the same as he did before but he is only used in limited games.

[Commandant]

1 hour ago, hockeyrealist said:

Anyone know the stats on when 14/22 put up their points during a game?

 

i like both players so this is not me knocking them but my eyes seems to believe these two (particularly 14) seem to be amassing a significant portion of their points when the game is essentially out of reach, late in game, down by a couple.

Anyone have any opinion / info on this?

I’m curious, but not enough so to do the research myself.  

My theory is that once opponent’s ease off on offensive pressure and take a more passive defensive approach to protect a lead is when 14/22 seem to get their best looks, sustained o zone pressure, ultimately points.

They obv create earlier in games as well, but the eye test tells me they cash in more when trailing (although I suppose they are always trailing…)

 

My worry is that if this is so, will they ever be able to produce early and often enough to be winners instead of happy to be competitive?

 

There is nothing to suggest that their points come late in games that are already lost.  Nothing.

[GHT120]

44 minutes ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said:

I can’t really blame the vets for checking out, either - assuming them to have done so. They know the Habs are sellers, so on a human level, it’s got to be tough not knowing what your fate is.

Not certain that any vets have really "checked out" ... any that are not playing well have pretty much not played well all season.

[huzer]

3 hours ago, hockeyrealist said:

Anyone know the stats on when 14/22 put up their points during a game?

 

i like both players so this is not me knocking them but my eyes seems to believe these two (particularly 14) seem to be amassing a significant portion of their points when the game is essentially out of reach, late in game, down by a couple.

Anyone have any opinion / info on this?

I’m curious, but not enough so to do the research myself.  

My theory is that once opponent’s ease off on offensive pressure and take a more passive defensive approach to protect a lead is when 14/22 seem to get their best looks, sustained o zone pressure, ultimately points.

They obv create earlier in games as well, but the eye test tells me they cash in more when trailing (although I suppose they are always trailing…)

 

My worry is that if this is so, will they ever be able to produce early and often enough to be winners instead of happy to be competitive?

 

Stats would suggest the opposite. Both are over PPG average when the team wins (Suzuki, 30pts in 22 games, Caufield 24pts in 22 games). They are definitely not piling up points in losses, scoring at a much lower rate. (Suzuki, 25 pts in 36 games, Caufield 22pts in 36 games).

[Prime Minister Koivu]

Part of all this is due to severe injuries and trading your second best health centre hasn’t helped. 
 

We have been without Dach, Newhook, Dvorak and many others but including Monahan that is FOUR capable centres that were gone. 
 

Newhook did come back shortly after the Monahan trade which helps a bit. 
 

Bottom line is how do we expect to win when so many key positions weren’t filled properly due to injuries. 
 

Hell, we played with three centres for two games and Suzuki was the only top 9 centre we had (sorry Evans, you are perfect 4th liner). 
 

[GHT120]

2 hours ago, Prime Minister Koivu said:

We have been without Dach, Newhook, Dvorak and many others but including Monahan that is FOUR capable centres that were gone. 

Good post, but I-M-O a bit premature to designate Newhook as a "capable centre" ... some would argue that Dvorak is at best average, not capable (I lean towards agreeing).

[Commandant]

I think the recent results and how they make the whole season look a lot like last year suggest that this isnt a playoff team next year either 

[Habs Fan in Edmonton]

1 hour ago, Commandant said:

I think the recent results and how they make the whole season look a lot like last year suggest that this isnt a playoff team next year either 

 

Perhaps it isn't but I would like to see what this team would look like with a healthy Dach for a year. Maybe that is too much to hope for. 

[GHT120]

1 hour ago, Commandant said:

I think the recent results and how they make the whole season look a lot like last year suggest that this isnt a playoff team next year either 

I agree ... I don't expect them to be a playoff team next season ... but if healthy I expect them to be in the wildcard race most of the season.

[Commandant]

2 hours ago, Habs Fan in Edmonton said:

 

Perhaps it isn't but I would like to see what this team would look like with a healthy Dach for a year. Maybe that is too much to hope for. 

 

I think they are around a 500 team (82 points or so) which is what they were trending as pre Monahan trade.  Dach probably provides about the same as what Monahan was, maybe a little better 

 

Its still a big jump to the 95+ points it takes to make the playoffs.  Need to add another difference making forward even after getting Dach back IMO

[Habs Fan in Edmonton]

14 minutes ago, Commandant said:

 Need to add another difference making forward even after getting Dach back IMO

 

100% agree with that. Secondary scoring is the team's biggest weakness. There is nobody outside the 1st line that other teams worry about. 

[The Chicoutimi Cucumber]

I think everyone agrees we need to add a significant FW. I believe management wants to do so as well, and we certainly have assets to bargain with, so I think there's a realistic possibility that it happens.

[DON]

Writers Weigh In: Who Will Montreal Trade Next? – HabsWorld.net

 

Ylonen, Matheson.... hmm who knows?

 

 

[The Chicoutimi Cucumber]

3 hours ago, DON said:

Writers Weigh In: Who Will Montreal Trade Next? – HabsWorld.net

 

Ylonen, Matheson.... hmm who knows?

 

 

 

Boy, trading Matheson would be a ballsy move, given what he means to our D. Despite all the points from the back end this season, none of our young guys plays that kind of puck-controlling, offence-generating game. Moving him out would likely transform us from a bad team into the worst team in hockey right now.

 

On the other hand, he’s 30, and although his game feels to me like it will age well, he’s hard to imagine as part of the long-term plan.

 

I have a higher opinion of him than some, and think that if the Habs really were shopping him around, he would be subject of pretty hot rumours. So my guess is the Habs will wait until next season, then move him as a rental. Whether that’s the way to maximize return on a player who should bring back a solid haul, I don’t know.

[GHT120]

49 minutes ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said:

... if the Habs really were shopping him around, he would be subject of pretty hot rumours ...

I seriously doubt Hughes would be "shopping" Matheson, but I could see teams calling about him ... he would be a "three-run rental" as he is signed through 25/26 ... but teams like - FOR EXAMPLE - the Leafs (only two D signed for next season), Vegas (36 yr-old Alec Martinez on an expiring, higher AAV, contract) or VAN (with pending UFAs like Zadorov and Cole) might well be interested in a "hockey trade" and try to figure out how to make the cap work this season ... but I expect they would have to overwhelm Hughes with an offer.

[Habs Fan in Edmonton]

2 minutes ago, GHT120 said:

I seriously doubt Hughes would be "shopping" Matheson, but I could see teams calling about him ... he would be a "three-run rental" as he is signed through 25/26 ... but teams like - FOR EXAMPLE - the Leafs (only two D signed for next season), Vegas (36 yr-old Alec Martinez on an expiring, higher AAV, contract) or VAN (with pending UFAs like Zadorov and Cole) might well be interested in a "hockey trade" and try to figure out how to make the cap work this season ... but I expect they would have to overwhelm Hughes with an offer.

 

I would agree, because of the term left it would be more of a "hockey trade".  Matheson is a nice story, local boy returning home and doing very well. I seriously doubt Hughes is looking to trade him, it would have to be a great offer. 

[The Chicoutimi Cucumber]

4 minutes ago, GHT120 said:

I seriously doubt Hughes would be "shopping" Matheson, but I could see teams calling about him ... he would be a "three-run rental" as he is signed through 25/26 ... but teams like - FOR EXAMPLE - the Leafs (only two D signed for next season), Vegas (36 yr-old Alec Martinez on an expiring, higher AAV, contract) or VAN (with pending UFAs like Zadorov and Cole) might well be interested in a "hockey trade" and try to figure out how to make the cap work this season ... but I expect they would have to overwhelm Hughes with an offer.

 

Oops, I thought he was up next year. My bad.

 

He will certainly be traded before his contract is up; it's a question of when. If we wait until he's 32 he might have begun his decline, so maybe next year will indeed be a good target? Or, we just see him as a guy who plays out the string with us - allowing Hutson a luxurious, low-pressure entry into the NHL - to be moved as a rental in two years, even if that means not maximizing return.  

[hab29RETIRED]

1 hour ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said:

 

Oops, I thought he was up next year. My bad.

 

He will certainly be traded before his contract is up; it's a question of when. If we wait until he's 32 he might have begun his decline, so maybe next year will indeed be a good target? Or, we just see him as a guy who plays out the string with us - allowing Hutson a luxurious, low-pressure entry into the NHL - to be moved as a rental in two years, even if that means not maximizing return.  

Unless we get another that totally knocks our socks off - an offer we can’t refuse that doesn’t involve waking up next to a dead order head - I think we need to wait until next year. See what we have in the kids and if they can push Matheson down in the lineup. Savard on the other hand, I would move now. He’s a guy that will decline and will be susceptible to injury.