Sir_Boagalott Posted January 23 Share Posted January 23 On 1/12/2024 at 12:23 AM, Habs Fan in Edmonton said: Lindstrom would be really nice but likely gone before the Habs draft. Catton seems more likely, he reminds me of Elias Pettersson. Cayden Lindstrom | Cayden Lindstrom Profile | Cayden Lindstrom Scouting Report 2024 (mynhldraft.com) Berkly Catton | Berkly Catton Profile | Berkly Catton Scouting Report 2024 (mynhldraft.com) I'm hoping for Lindstrom for sure. Craig Button has him pegged at 10th. https://www.eliteprospects.com/draft-center/tsn-craig-button If the Habs draft in the Top 10 the last player I want to see them draft is: Konsta Helenius I'd rather take Tiggy Iggy in the Top 10 who is slated to go 15th or 16th instead of a 5'-11" 180 lbs Fin with 8 goals. The general consensus for the Habs biggest need is an elite goal scorer. Does a player with 8 goals fit that need? Hell no. I'd pass on Helenius. Other than Eiserman @ 2nd Jerome's son has the 2nd highest goals in the Top 20. Lindstrom is tied for 4th in goals and I wouldn't take the guy at 3rd or the other guy tied with him either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DON Posted January 23 Share Posted January 23 16 minutes ago, Sir_Boagalott said: I'd rather take Tiggy Iggy in the Top 10 who is slated to go 15th or 16th instead of a 5'-11" 180 lbs Fin with 8 goals. The general consensus for the Habs biggest need is an elite goal scorer. Does a player with 8 goals fit that need? Hell no. I'd pass on Helenius. Liiga vs WHL play is a quite different game. Ranked #6 by CONSOLIDATED RANKING Ranked #8 by ELITEPROSPECTS.COM Ranked #4 by DAILY FACEOFF Ranked #9 by THE HOCKEY NEWS Ranked #8 by TSN/BOB McKENZIE Ranked #4 by MCKEEN'S HOCKEY Ranked #6 by TSN/CRAIG BUTTON Ranked #1 by NHL CENTRAL SCOUTING (EU Skaters) Ranked #6 by DOBBERPROSPECTS Ranked #7 by DRAFT PROSPECTS HOCKEY Ranked #11 by SMAHT SCOUTING Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commandant Posted January 23 Share Posted January 23 8 goals and 22 points in 35 gsmes by a 17 year old playing against men in the Finnish Elite League is outstanding production. Kk had 10 goals and 29 points in 59 games in thr same league. Buy besides that, have you ever seen him play? Judging a prospect by his statsheet is one of the dumbest things you can do. Comparing the stats of a guy playing in a junior league against a guy playing in a european men's league and equating the number of goals as being the same... thats even dumber. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GHT120 Posted January 23 Share Posted January 23 42 minutes ago, Sir_Boagalott said: If the Habs draft in the Top 10 the last player I want to see them draft is: Konsta Helenius 17 minutes ago, DON said: Liiga vs WHL play is a quite different game. 15 minutes ago, Commandant said: Judging a prospect by his stat sheet is one of the dumbest things you can do. Saku Koivu had 3 goals in his Liiga draft season ... Commandant is right ... stats are not the basis for a draft decision. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Habs Fan in Edmonton Posted January 23 Author Share Posted January 23 Here is a video on Helenius, whenever I read anything about him and see him in any video he reminds me of Suzuki, smart 2 way player, excellent passer. Perhaps not an elite shooter like Caulfield but I am absolutely fine with 2 Suzuki's. If the Habs draft 6-10 (likely) then he is likely a guy they consider. With a May birthday he is also younger than most in the draft. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sir_Boagalott Posted January 23 Share Posted January 23 2 hours ago, Commandant said: 8 goals and 22 points in 35 gsmes by a 17 year old playing against men in the Finnish Elite League is outstanding production. Kk had 10 goals and 29 points in 59 games in thr same league. Buy besides that, have you ever seen him play? Judging a prospect by his statsheet is one of the dumbest things you can do. Comparing the stats of a guy playing in a junior league against a guy playing in a european men's league and equating the number of goals as being the same... thats even dumber. Actually, I'm doing none of those things. 8 goals in 32 gms = .25 g/gm pace. In 80 games that = 20 g. Liiga is a lesser league than the NHL. Not sure why in a convo about needing an elite scorer that you'd mention KK? Comparatively to KK, Helenius could be a 20-23 g/yr guy. i.e. thats the math on it if he gets 16 pts in 59 gms, its only 6 more pts than the elite sniper KK. Sorry, I do not share you exuberance on that. Have I seen him play? Yes, I just watched @Habs Fan in Edmonton's vid. I had never seen him play when I posted that but I'm not judging him solely by his statsheet. lol You have heard that there are Professional Scouts right and that they rank players? Well, I'm going off their info. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sir_Boagalott Posted January 23 Share Posted January 23 1 hour ago, Habs Fan in Edmonton said: Here is a video on Helenius, whenever I read anything about him and see him in any video he reminds me of Suzuki, smart 2 way player, excellent passer. Perhaps not an elite shooter like Caulfield but I am absolutely fine with 2 Suzuki's. If the Habs draft 6-10 (likely) then he is likely a guy they consider. With a May birthday he is also younger than most in the draft. He might be young and have good qualities but still I'd avoid him. Like it says in the vid, he isn't explosive, dynamic, or big. i.e. that doesn't sound like he's fast = not a fit for the Habs. Do the Habs suck at scoring because nobody can pass so they need another really good passer? Or, do they desperately need more shooters? Plus, how is really different than anyone currently in the Habs system? Can anyone say for certain that he's leaps and bounds better than Roy or Beck? No. How about Newhook? Draft him and the Newhook trade instantly becomes a dumb mistake. If I had a pick that came before Lindstrom was taken, I'd take him over Eiserman, Helenius, and the Russian. Why? He's 6'3" and he's already 215lbs. How big do you think he will get? He'll be 235+ lbs in 3-5 yrs. He'll be a monster like Anderson. Gee, according to the peanut gallery I'm such a big dummy for wanting the Habs to have 5 F's that are 6'3" 220+lbs. i.e. Slaf, Dach, Andy, Florian, Lindstrom. Besides, most scouts have Lindstrom ranked higher than Helenius anyway. Either way, put me down for avoiding BPA Kostitsyn over Getzlaff v2.0. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hab29RETIRED Posted January 23 Share Posted January 23 14 minutes ago, Sir_Boagalott said: He might be young and have good qualities but still I'd avoid him. Like it says in the vid, he isn't explosive, dynamic, or big. i.e. that doesn't sound like he's fast = not a fit for the Habs. Do the Habs suck at scoring because nobody can pass so they need another really good passer? Or, do they desperately need more shooters? Plus, how is really different than anyone currently in the Habs system? Can anyone say for certain that he's leaps and bounds better than Roy or Beck? No. How about Newhook? Draft him and the Newhook trade instantly becomes a dumb mistake. If I had a pick that came before Lindstrom was taken, I'd take him over Eiserman, Helenius, and the Russian. Why? He's 6'3" and he's already 215lbs. How big do you think he will get? He'll be 235+ lbs in 3-5 yrs. He'll be a monster like Anderson. Gee, according to the peanut gallery I'm such a big dummy for wanting the Habs to have 5 F's that are 6'3" 220+lbs. i.e. Slaf, Dach, Andy, Florian, Lindstrom. Besides, most scouts have Lindstrom ranked higher than Helenius anyway. Either way, put me down for avoiding BPA Kostitsyn over Getzlaff v2.0. I’d like to trade away our big bad Anderson, for a consistent producer. If he’s another Anderson - a guy who always leaves you wanting something more than he has given - IMO wanting a guy for the size fetish that has led to far too many mistakes - he would be a solid hard pass for me if other more consistent producers are available - regardless of their size. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Habs Fan in Edmonton Posted January 23 Author Share Posted January 23 Certainly it will be difficult for the Habs to overlook Lindstrom if he is available, 27 goals in 32 games, plays with an edge as he has 66PIM. Still only 17. Anderson's best year in junior was 27 goals in 59 games. Don't think you can compare the two. I really like Lindstrom if he is available. Helenius also looks very good. Hopefully with a lot of really highly rated defensemen in the draft, a top forward will fall in our lap. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IN THE HEARTS OF MEN Posted January 23 Share Posted January 23 If Calgary pick ends up outside the top #10, is it ours? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alfredoh2009 Posted January 23 Share Posted January 23 1 hour ago, IN THE HEARTS OF MEN said: If Calgary pick ends up outside the top #10, is it ours? Calgary's pick has to be #20 to #32 to transfer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Habs Fan in Edmonton Posted January 23 Author Share Posted January 23 42 minutes ago, alfredoh2009 said: Calgary's pick has to be #20 to #32 to transfer Correct, if Calgary's pick falls in this range they have the option of taking it this year or decide to wait until next year. Calgary would obviously have to make the playoffs and likely win a round for this to happen as they will almost certainly be a bubble team if they make the playoffs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DON Posted January 23 Share Posted January 23 8 hours ago, Sir_Boagalott said: Why? He's 6'3" and he's already 215lbs. How big do you think he will get? He'll be 235+ lbs in 3-5 yrs. He'll be a monster like Anderson. Gee, according to the peanut gallery I'm such a big dummy for wanting the Habs to have 5 F's that are 6'3" 220+lbs. i.e. Slaf, Dach, Andy, Florian, Lindstrom. Thinking large size is all important, not sure is best way to rate prospects. Habfans seem to agree. #1 Prospect – D Lane Hutson Hutson’s dynamic freshman season with Boston University was one for the record books which made him the top prospect in the eyes of two-thirds of our voters. He was also the only player to receive a vote from everyone. Fans might not have to wait much longer to see him in an NHL lineup as it feels like there’s a decent chance he could turn pro at the end of his college season, a move that would burn the first year of his entry-level contract in the process (and make him ineligible to play in Laval for their potential playoff push). 2023-24 HabsWorld Prospect Rankings: Fan Vote Results – HabsWorld.net Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commandant Posted January 23 Share Posted January 23 9 hours ago, Sir_Boagalott said: Actually, I'm doing none of those things. 8 goals in 32 gms = .25 g/gm pace. In 80 games that = 20 g. Liiga is a lesser league than the NHL. Not sure why in a convo about needing an elite scorer that you'd mention KK? Comparatively to KK, Helenius could be a 20-23 g/yr guy. i.e. thats the math on it if he gets 16 pts in 59 gms, its only 6 more pts than the elite sniper KK. Sorry, I do not share you exuberance on that. Have I seen him play? Yes, I just watched @Habs Fan in Edmonton's vid. I had never seen him play when I posted that but I'm not judging him solely by his statsheet. lol You have heard that there are Professional Scouts right and that they rank players? Well, I'm going off their info. Watching a highlight video is not the same as watching him play. Also translating a 17 year olds stats in a mens league, that you dont watch and have no idea on the style of play, ans saying thats what he will score in the NHL is dumb. As for the professional scouts, you arent using them, cause if you were, you wouldnt compare Tiggy Iginla (16th).to Konsta Helnius, a top 10 pick by the pro scouts who voted in Bob McKenzie's list. You want Lindstrom ahead, no issue with that but your reasoning is flawed when you get to rather having Iginla cause Helenius has 8 goals. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Habs Fan in Edmonton Posted January 23 Author Share Posted January 23 31 minutes ago, DON said: Thinking large size is all important, not sure is best way to rate prospects. Habfans seem to agree. #1 Prospect – D Lane Hutson Hutson’s dynamic freshman season with Boston University was one for the record books which made him the top prospect in the eyes of two-thirds of our voters. He was also the only player to receive a vote from everyone. Fans might not have to wait much longer to see him in an NHL lineup as it feels like there’s a decent chance he could turn pro at the end of his college season, a move that would burn the first year of his entry-level contract in the process (and make him ineligible to play in Laval for their potential playoff push). 2023-24 HabsWorld Prospect Rankings: Fan Vote Results – HabsWorld.net Size is certainly not the most important factor (ie. Mike McCarron - ouch) but definitely a consideration. If you can get speed, skill, work ethic, smarts and size then you have something special. I would just love to have another Ryan Getzlaf. He was such a stud, saw him so many times giving the Oilers fits in the playoffs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DON Posted January 24 Share Posted January 24 On 1/23/2024 at 7:29 AM, Habs Fan in Edmonton said: Size is certainly not the most important factor Most important eh? Skill & IQ seems most important, with quick skating likely next best asset (Cale Makar prime example, who cares how big he is). Bigger almost always means slower (1st couple steps) or less nimble skater (like a Slafkovski). Anderson has some speed... in a straight line; but agility is not his strong suit. But he is big and tough and can score a bit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GHT120 Posted January 25 Share Posted January 25 On 1/23/2024 at 10:29 AM, Habs Fan in Edmonton said: Size is certainly not the most important factor ... 3 hours ago, DON said: Most important eh? Did he not say "NOT" the most important? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Habs Fan in Edmonton Posted January 25 Author Share Posted January 25 Since we are talking about what assets are most important in a player it might be interesting to see how everyone would rank them. I think the important assets would include (correct me if I am missing anything): 1. skating (speed, edgework, agility) 2. skill (puckhandling, passing, shot) 3. Smarts (hockey IQ) 4. Work ethic/determination/heart 5. Size I didn't rank them in any particular order although I think size might be #5 for a lot of people. I know it's not really that easy to rank them and there are various degrees in each category. A player might be highly skilled, a great skater but if they are lazy then they might be useless. On the other hand a player might have a huge heart (ie Gallagher) but if they are lacking in the skill area then they might not be effective so it's not that easy to say what asset is most important. Perhaps if a player is totally lacking in one area then it really hurts them. I think size would be #5 for me but it might also depend on the position. Size might be more important for a defenseman than a center. Thoughts? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prime Minister Koivu Posted January 25 Share Posted January 25 6 hours ago, Habs Fan in Edmonton said: Since we are talking about what assets are most important in a player it might be interesting to see how everyone would rank them. I think the important assets would include (correct me if I am missing anything): 1. skating (speed, edgework, agility) 2. skill (puckhandling, passing, shot) 3. Smarts (hockey IQ) 4. Work ethic/determination/heart 5. Size I didn't rank them in any particular order although I think size might be #5 for a lot of people. I know it's not really that easy to rank them and there are various degrees in each category. A player might be highly skilled, a great skater but if they are lazy then they might be useless. On the other hand a player might have a huge heart (ie Gallagher) but if they are lacking in the skill area then they might not be effective so it's not that easy to say what asset is most important. Perhaps if a player is totally lacking in one area then it really hurts them. I think size would be #5 for me but it might also depend on the position. Size might be more important for a defenseman than a center. Thoughts? Skating Smarts Skill Work ethics Size Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DON Posted January 25 Share Posted January 25 16 hours ago, GHT120 said: Did he not say "NOT" the most important? Poorly worded, i was just pointing out what i thought was "most" important. Not criticizing or what not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GHT120 Posted January 25 Share Posted January 25 18 minutes ago, DON said: Poorly worded, i was just pointing out what i thought was "most" important. Not criticizing or what not. Fair enough Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Habs Fan in Edmonton Posted January 25 Author Share Posted January 25 18 minutes ago, DON said: Poorly worded, i was just pointing out what i thought was "most" important. Not criticizing or what not. No worries, I don't always word things the way I intend them to be interpreted. It was good to see Buffalo come back and beat LA last night. That puts the Habs 6th from the bottom. Realistically the only team behind them that I think can catch them is Ottawa and I don't really see the Habs passing more than 3 or 4 teams above them. I think there is a 90% chance we draft 5-10 unless we get real lucky with the ping pong balls (please God I have been good this year). We need a real good forward. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DON Posted January 25 Share Posted January 25 1 hour ago, Habs Fan in Edmonton said: I think there is a 90% chance we draft 5-10 unless we get real lucky with the ping pong balls (please God I have been good this year). We need a real good forward. Yes, Sabres/Sens passing the Habs is best we can hope for, it seems. But imagine they will finish pretty darn close to present spot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alfredoh2009 Posted January 25 Share Posted January 25 remember that the Sens ahve 3-5 games in hand on most of these teams. If they continue on their hot streak, they will finish higher than the Habs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prime Minister Koivu Posted January 25 Share Posted January 25 25 minutes ago, DON said: Yes, Sabres/Sens passing the Habs is best we can hope for, it seems. But imagine they will finish pretty darn close to present spot. Top 5 pick with a chance at a lottery miracle sounds great. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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