2024 draft, pick 5: Ivan Demidov

[Habs Fan in Edmonton]

31 minutes ago, GHT120 said:

Just pointing out that if you make the trade, you have them both ... I-M-O, Mailloux and a 2025 2nd might be fair for McGroaty ... give to get.

 

I think if you are including Mailloux (higher ceiling than Harris/Struble) then including a 2nd is pretty close to fair value. 

[GHT120]

17 minutes ago, Habs Fan in Edmonton said:

 

Fair enough, you didn't say no value but saying in your example that he is 1/10 the value of what you hope to get certainly implies you think he has little value.  I think he is a very mobile, smart hockey player with great character. Now he is somewhat limited by his size but  if he was 6' 2" 210 lbs we likely wouldn't be having this conversation because we would probably want to keep him or be demanding a heck of a lot more in a trade. 

 

Barron scored 7 goals in 48 games from the back end. He certainly has some talent. They are both young and can get better. 

Metaphors are not literal.

[Habs Fan in Edmonton]

9 minutes ago, GHT120 said:

Metaphors are not literal.

 

I guess I thought you were using an analogy more than a metaphor. However I am hardly a language expert so I could be wrong here, perhaps CC can clarify. LOL

 

I have used the analogy (maybe it's a metaphor?)  "trading 2 tugboats for a battleship" a few times. 

 

 

[DON]

1 hour ago, Habs Fan in Edmonton said:

There is a big difference in what you would give up for a Marner or Necas as opposed to a Perfetti or McGroaty. 

Just tossing out names rumoured to be moving and might help the Habs.

 

I am not that stupid to think Leafs and Jets would want same package for an $11m/yr all-star Marner and a prospect in Perfetti, or that whiny kid who thinks he deserves to be given a NHL roster spot because he is just that good.

[The Chicoutimi Cucumber]

15 minutes ago, Habs Fan in Edmonton said:

 

I guess I thought you were using an analogy more than a metaphor. However I am hardly a language expert so I could be wrong here, perhaps CC can clarify. LOL

 

I have used the analogy (maybe it's a metaphor?)  "trading 2 tugboats for a battleship" a few times. 

 

 

 

A metaphor substitues an image for the thing being discussed. “Mailloux is a machine” is a metaphor. 

 

An analogy says that the image is “like” the thing being discussed. “Mailloux treats opponents like a thresher treats wheat” is an analogy.

 

Sincerely,

 

Professor Cucumber 

 

[Habs Fan in Edmonton]

17 minutes ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said:

 

A metaphor substitues an image for the thing being discussed. “Mailloux is a machine” is a metaphor. 

 

An analogy says that the image is “like” the thing being discussed. “Mailloux treats opponents like a thresher treats wheat” is an analogy.

 

Sincerely,

 

Professor Cucumber 

 

 

Thanks for the clarification Professor, I am always learning new things on this board which is awesome!

[Habs Fan in Edmonton]

40 minutes ago, DON said:

Just tossing out names rumoured to be moving and might help the Habs.

 

I am not that stupid to think Leafs and Jets would want same package for an $11m/yr all-star Marner and a prospect in Perfetti, or that whiny kid who thinks he deserves to be given a NHL roster spot because he is just that good.

 

I was just discussing in the context of what the Habs would give up as were discussing different scenario's of picks/prospects. I didn't intend my reply to be disparaging, sorry if it was taken that way. 

[hab29RETIRED]

2 hours ago, Habs Fan in Edmonton said:

 

Yes, we do want someone very good to play with Dach, hopefully someone young that fits into the rebuild and wants to play here.  There is a big difference in what you would give up for a Marner or Necas as opposed to a Perfetti or McGroaty. 

I'd rather see if we can get Laine cheap if we don't ask Columbus to retain. It would also be good if we can move a forward out as part of the deal - preferably Dvorak, Anderson, and Gallagher- I know the chances of moving the last two are probably slim to none.

[hab29RETIRED]

2 hours ago, Commandant said:

I think things could get interesting once Laine is cleared by the player assistance program, which apparently hasn't happened quite yet. 

I didn't realize that was the holdup I thought the Friedman had said he was a guy who could have been moved at the draft?? 
 

he definitely would be my choice of the forward to pick up to play with Dach.

[hab29RETIRED]

1 hour ago, Prime Minister Koivu said:

This would make me definitely consider it. I’d rather not give up Mailloux but I think this might get the deal done 

I don't want to move a Mailloux or Wifi this year, until we see if Dach can stay healthy and be the 1B centre. If he can't, than Mailloux may be what needs to moved to address that need. I also want to see what he can do at the NHL level. I also think it will be helpful to see if the surgically repaired wifi shows so progress this year.

[hab29RETIRED]

1 hour ago, Habs Fan in Edmonton said:

 

Fair enough, you didn't say no value but saying in your example that he is 1/10 the value of what you hope to get certainly implies you think he has little value.  I think he is a very mobile, smart hockey player with great character. Now he is somewhat limited by his size but  if he was 6' 2" 210 lbs we likely wouldn't be having this conversation because we would probably want to keep him or be demanding a heck of a lot more in a trade. 

 

Barron scored 7 goals in 48 games from the back end. He certainly has some talent. They are both young and can get better. 

I agree. We've given up on young dman far too often. I'd rather see what both can do.

[Commandant]

8 minutes ago, hab29RETIRED said:

I didn't realize that was the holdup I thought the Friedman had said he was a guy who could have been moved at the draft?? 
 

he definitely would be my choice of the forward to pick up to play with Dach.

 

He can be traded while in the program.... but Teams probably want to see that he's out of the program and cleared before they trade for him too. 

 

Its the same as a guy undergoing re-hab on his knee.... Yes a team COULD trade for him while he's doing rehab (we did this when we traded Theodore to Colorado and they waived the medical), but in most cases the team acquiring the player wants to see him cleared to play again before they pull the trigger. 

[The Chicoutimi Cucumber]

Laine is tempting. He's mostly been a PPG player, and one imagines that, with his issues under control, he could be again. He's only 26.

 

That being said, I would HATE to lose Mailloux. 🤷‍♂️

[Commandant]

From Late June, but yes being cleared was an issue as GMs want permission to speak with him. 

[DON]

1 hour ago, Habs Fan in Edmonton said:

 

I was just discussing in the context of what the Habs would give up as were discussing different scenario's of picks/prospects. I didn't intend my reply to be disparaging, sorry if it was taken that way. 

Didnt take it that way.

Just clarifying.

1 hour ago, hab29RETIRED said:

I agree. We've given up on young dman far too often. I'd rather see what both can do.

What does Sergachev, Langway, Chelios, McDonagh have to do with current team and Habs Mgmt (Molson maybe it).

And you do realize they only dress 6 d-men and really could use adding top-six forward.

 

Xhekaj is a 3rd pairing d-man and Mailloux might be 1st paring, but likely 2nd pairing.

 

 

Demidov eh?

 

[Habs Fan in Edmonton]

1 hour ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said:

Laine is tempting. He's mostly been a PPG player, and one imagines that, with his issues under control, he could be again. He's only 26.

 

That being said, I would HATE to lose Mailloux. 🤷‍♂️

 

I am sure Hughes will explore the possibility of getting Laine. A big question will be whether Hughes will want Columbus to retain some salary. Obviously salary retention would increase the cost. With no salary retention I can't see the cost being that high as there is no guarantee issues won't crop up again and 8.7M is a big chunk. He hasn't played over 60 games since 2019/20. But his skill set is enticing. 

[tomh009]

If they are OK with the cap hit for two years, taking Laine at the full AAV would mean having to give up fewer assets.

[Habs Fan in Edmonton]

27 minutes ago, tomh009 said:

If they are OK with the cap hit for two years, taking Laine at the full AAV would mean having to give up fewer assets.

 

I would think the cost would be minimal if you are taking on the full cap hit. 

[DON]

Still have seen zero negativity on this pick, the puck skills of Hutson and him could add alot of entertainment and boost the offense.

Thoughts on the Ivan Demidov Selection – HabsWorld.net

 

"Demidov effectively takes Montreal’s biggest need off the board, assuming he pans out, of course.  That’s about the best-case scenario they could have had in this draft."

[Habs Fan in Edmonton]

Interesting, could Demidov come over sooner?  These changes seem positive. 

 

 

KHL And FHR Changes – Impact on Canadiens Prospect Demidov (msn.com)

[Habs Fan in Edmonton]

Regarding the above, I read it this way. The KHL team can keep Demidov for a year knowing that he is leaving after 1 year and they get nothing in compensation.  Or they can accept a "transfer fee" and let him go now. I assume in Russia that money talks. 

 

Perhaps that is the way that it's always been done. There are probably others on this board who understand the way the KHL works better than I do. 

[Commandant]

Just now, Habs Fan in Edmonton said:

Regarding the above, I read it this way. The KHL team can keep Demidov for a year knowing that he is leaving after 1 year and they get nothing in compensation.  Or they can accept a "transfer fee" and let him go now. I assume in Russia that money talks. 

 

Perhaps that is the way that it's always been done. There are probably others on this board who understand the way the KHL works better than I do. 

 

The issue is that the KHL is negotiating with itself.  Nothing is changing with this, not while Russia continues to be at war with Ukraine. 

 

Without a comprehensive league wide transfer deal, (like the NHL has with the SHL, Liiga, Swiss, Germany, Slovakia, Czechs, etc....) any buyout of a KHL contract goes against the team's salary cap and would be a violation of the rules on ELCs, so its not possible. 

 

And the NHL is not negotiating a league wide transfer deal given Russia's status internationally. 

 

So this really changes nothing.

[Habs Fan in Edmonton]

Thanks for the clarification. 

[Prime Minister Koivu]

Funny meme with a touch of accuracy 

 

 

[DON]

Demidov KHL camp started yesterday.