Jump to content
Sign in to follow this  
dlbalr

Game 4, Flyers vs Habs, 3 PM

Recommended Posts

4 hours ago, brobin said:

I am not sure why people are surprised... 24th placed team... would rather admit we are rebuilding and get draft picks... more young talent to build on is needed... 

my thought too.

i picked Philly in six, and I am hopeful the Habs can win one more game but not so confident on winnnonf two in a row.

I am also ok with the benching. Muller is only interim and benching Drouin will matter little come December; CJ may have alienated anyone benched if he did the same 

 

Insaid it in earlier posts, if the Habs can score an average over 2 goals consistently, they will have a chance.

They are getting close to that, but probably will not show it this playoffs

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Commandant said:

Chiarot is not bad... but hes not as good as many believe.  Hes basically a small upgrade on Jordie Benn and really should be the #5 D.

 

He was caught up the ice at least 3 times today, leading to 2 on 1s against.

defence in these playoffs has not really been a problem. we've been pretty stingy since the qualifiers... the problem is our offence but for a few, has been just as stingy

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, GHT120 said:

 

Think that is harsh ... IMO Chiarot is a solid top 4 LHD ... perhaps not an ideal top pairing LHD (although that perhaps opens the argument about which pairing is the top pairing) but works well with Weber ... but neither are ideal in situations when chances must be taken because a goal is needed ... if punches don't work they van be left behind.

I think he is a top 4 pairing Dman in a bubble team, but not one on a team that is a real contender.  Let’s keep in mind that Price hides a lot of the deficiencies our D.  
 

Petry has surprised me this year and he’s put up good numbers, but i think you have to look beyond just point production.  I don’t see him as even close to rookies Makar and Hughes as dominant puck moving Dman and I don’t think as far as big Dman go, Weber is dominant as Hedman or Jones.  Do we have any prospects that can be that guy??  Guys that can just take over a game on a REGULAR basis?  I don’t know. Don’t know what the ceiling for Romanov is and he is our best D prospect.

 

Even when looking at non- elite teams, ask yourself this, would you trade our top 4 for Carolina’s (and no I don’t consider Gardiner as a top 4 and don’t think Hamilton is their best dman), or Columbus’s?  I know I would in a heartbeat.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Commandant said:

I think fleury and brook will be decent rhd.  We need a guy who projects to the top pair though.

i don't think either will exceed expectations to Petry level or better on the right side... I think only one who has a chance would be Struble but thats asking for a lot stars too aline.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 minutes ago, alfredoh2009 said:

my thought too.

i picked Philly in six, and I am hopeful the Habs can win one more game but not so confident on winnnonf two in a row.

I am also ok with the benching. Muller is only interim and benching Drouin will matter little come December; CJ may have alienated anyone benched if he did the same 

 

Insaid it in earlier posts, if the Habs can score an average over 2 goals consistently, they will have a chance.

They are getting close to that, but probably will not show it this playoffs

 

 

I’m surprised they beat Pittsburgh, but am happy to get a preview of what KK and Suzuki can be.  No guarantees there either.  Galchenyuk has a couple of good years and looked like he had the potential to be a dominant player.  It’s one thing to perform well when no one is expecting it and another thing to perform well consistently when the opposition is ready and gunning for you.

Having said that, Suzuki looks like a real smart skilled player and it was unbelievable how much stronger and more confident KK looked.  In both cases, the long layoff was almost equivalent to a second and third year for them. Hopefully their strong play carries over to next year.  Will also be telling how the young guys in particular respond to an elimination game.

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Habsfan89 said:

Here's a question, should KM put back together the Tatar/danault/Gallagher line?

I think so, and I would also leave the Domi-Kotkaniemi-Drouin line together playing 3rd line: I would let them figure out how to produce.

The bad thing would be that it would suck for Suzuki who would get the leftover wingers

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
24 minutes ago, hab29RETIRED said:

I think he is a top 4 pairing Dman in a bubble team, but not one on a team that is a real contender.  Let’s keep in mind that Price hides a lot of the deficiencies our D.  
 

Petry has surprised me this year and he’s put up good numbers, but i think you have to look beyond just point production.  I don’t see him as even close to rookies Makar and Hughes as dominant puck moving Dman and I don’t think as far as big Dman go, Weber is dominant as Hedman or Jones.  Do we have any prospects that can be that guy??  Guys that can just take over a game on a REGULAR basis?  I don’t know. Don’t know what the ceiling for Romanov is and he is our best D prospect.

 

Even when looking at non- elite teams, ask yourself this, would you trade our top 4 for Carolina’s (and no I don’t consider Gardiner as a top 4 and don’t think Hamilton is their best dman), or Columbus’s?  I know I would in a heartbeat.

thats unfair... Jones is the best D in the league (arguably i guess?) and Werenski isn't that far behind.

 

The habs top 4 is a pretty close par.

weber> Hamilton

Petry> Vatanen

Chairot< Slavin

Kulak = Skjei

 

17 minutes ago, hab29RETIRED said:

I’m surprised they beat Pittsburgh, but am happy to get a preview of what KK and Suzuki can be.  No guarantees there either.  Galchenyuk has a couple of good years and looked like he had the potential to be a dominant player.  It’s one thing to perform well when no one is expecting it and another thing to perform well consistently when the opposition is ready and gunning for you.

Having said that, Suzuki looks like a real smart skilled player and it was unbelievable how much stronger and more confident KK looked.  In both cases, the long layoff was almost equivalent to a second and third year for them. Hopefully their strong play carries over to next year.  Will also be telling how the young guys in particular respond to an elimination game.

yes that will be interesting...

 

id like to see essentially the only 2 moves Muller has left.Poehling and Fleury (been saying it since game 2)

Go back to early lines with a single tweak and let them play through it... Roll your lines like games 1 and 2 and stretch the flyers out. Don't let them compact. Some cherry picking just to get some space in the neutral zone maybe? The breakouts have not been nearly as crisp. Muller hasnt adjusted... no stretch passes?

 

anyways... If Im Kirk Muller this is my line up  and im not changing it every other shift!

 

Tatar Suzuki Gallagher

Drouin KK Domi

Lehkonan Danault Evans

Byron Poehling Armia

 

Kulak Petry

Chiarot Weber

Mete Fleury

Price

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
45 minutes ago, IN THE HEARTS OF MEN said:

defence in these playoffs has not really been a problem. we've been pretty stingy since the qualifiers... the problem is our offence but for a few, has been just as stingy

 

I agree that the defence hasn't been the problem.  I was posting in response to CC's look towards next year. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, IN THE HEARTS OF MEN said:

thats unfair... Jones is the D in the league (arguably i guess?) and Werenski isnt that far behind.

 

The habs top 4 is a pretty close par.

 

 weber> Hamilton

Petry> Vatanen

Chairot< Slavin

Kulak = Skjei

 

yes that will be interesting...

 

id like to see essentially the only 2 moves Muller has left.Poehling and Fleury

Go back to early lines with a single tweak and let them play through it... Roll your lines like games 1 and 2 and stretch the flyers out. Don't let them compact. Some cherry picking just to get some space in the neutral zone maybe? The breakouts have not been nearly as crisp. Muller hasnt adjusted... no stretch passes?

 

anyways... Im Kirk Muller this is my line up  and im not changing it every othe rshift!

 

Tatar Suzuki Gallagher

Drouin KK Domi

Evans Danault Lehkonan

Byron Poehling Armia

 

Kulak Petry

Chiarot Weber

Mete Fleury

Price

I think you are really under rating Slavin.  I think he’s their best dman.  My point though was to show that from team that don’t have much scoring (though Carolina has Aho and Svechnikov) and are bubble teams, those teams have a D that structurally looks better and looks to be better going forward.  They both are pretty sound defensively and are built for today’s game and don’t have a $10.5m goalie to bail them out.  I think both have a bright future and I am amazed how Columbus has done after losing so many free agents.  I respect them for rolling the dice and selling off a lot of draft picks when they shout they had a chance and respect them even more for how they’ve played given their losses.  Hurts even more now that the Aho RFA off we want for more money that may have would have involved them getting more and better picks, because he is a forward that can take over a game and I can only imagine what a top three of Aho, KK and Suzuki would be like.

 

As far as the lineups. I like your suggested lineups and at this point there is nothing to lose rolling the dice and giving Poehling a shot to show what he can do.  Some have commented that he hasn’t impressed in practice. Well hell, Drouin hasn’t impressed since December and Domi is hole having a couple of good games has been pretty useless- and that’s only a critique of the two young players who were expected to be in the top 6 and our future hopes have been tied to.  If Gallagher does have injuries that are not just effecting his skating, but also his shooting, if even suggest pairing Poehling in his spot, because Gallagher does not look like the guy we’ve seen for the past 3 or 4 seasons and physically may not be able to contribute.  That is just pure speculation on my part, because he doesn’t just look like he is snake-but, or in a slump, but he doesn’t look like he is good to go, or is ABLE to contribute right now.
 

I also think you give a last shot to Domi and Drouin to show something with a guy who is going on all cylinders.  Is even try swapping the wingers for Suzuki and KK - although, Suzuki would have to bear all of the defensive responsibility with the D’s, who if they don’t shape up may earn the moniker dumb and dumber.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

We are being out coached and Muller has not made the right adjustments. The players are not the problem but Muller juggles the lines - the problem is we continue to go up the left side and look for the stretch pass, over and over again. Philly gobbles it up and goes the other way. This is not how you beat the trap.

 

We are trying to trap right along with them but this is not our strength. Our strength has always been a hard for check and 4 lines of speed.

 

Random thoughts:

 

-I saw something really interesting in Kotkaniemi yesterday. When paired with offensive players he is dangerous every shift, he is involved in every play and he is very offensively minded. When paired with Byron and Lehks, Kman held back much more and in a defensive posture. How dangerous did he look when paired with Drouin and Suzuki!

 

-Drouin - my opinion of him remains the same. He is a highly skilled player that uses skill to overcome obstacles and when that isn't possible then he will use penalties (trips and hooks) to overcome instead of hard work. He can be an elite passer but he it too lazy to put in the needed work and his hockey IQ is low. We lost this trade

 

-Domi - I know many of you think he is great but I have some concerns. With the puck Domi is a good passer, he has a great shot and he works hard but without the puck he is almost useless. He is not engaged defensively at all and his penchant for dumb penalties hurts us a lot. Like I said, he is well liked but man o man I do not want him to get a long term contract at this point. He may put it all together but I have my doubts.

 

-Oulette and Mete on his off side - I continue to question if this was the best option available to us. We are not losing because of them but are they really our best option?

 

-If we hope to win tonight then we need a new strategy. Philly sits with 5 players in the neutral zone, we need to have our centres or Dmen dump the puck just over centre and have our wingers enter their zone at full speed. Philly D will be flat footed and we should get to the pucks first, activate our D and we will generate chances. When we don't have the puck we need to have extreme levels of for check.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Tough to do when you are not scoring at all, but to win today Montreal simply needs to score first and play as well as they did in Game 1. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Who has a slump-busting GDT in them for tonight?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Used to travel to Columbus regularly and Have seen quite a few games live.

Their d looks better than they are because the entire team plays d-oriented hockey and forwards are rarely on the wrong side of the puck.

any of our top 4 would look much better playing on that team And under Torts.
Have seen the Habs play conservative hockey for years but watching Columbus play at home was textbook defensive first hockey, happy to play 0-0 into the third and hope to win 1-0.

Their  d are not all better puck movers and “modern NHL dmen” that are individually superior to the Habs top 4 (excluding Jones who is amazing).  

not that they don’t have great dmen but their system and team buy-in boost them all Individually.
play like that of Drouin, Domi, and a few other Habs forwards would mean zero ice time under torts.

Its boring to watch if you don’t understand and/or appreciate the style of play and makes sense if you have a great goalie (CP31) but requires full team buy in, you can’t let one or a few guys slide because other players see that as well, it’s gotta be all in.

A 15-20 goal guy who is now going to get 7-10 is going to have a harder time accepting the buy-in when the 30-40 goal guy gets a pass on shot blocking, offensive zone positioning, back checking.

On a team like that there is no star mentality, nobody gets a pass, everybody can be benched.

Accountability.

capitals have done that lead by Alex when they won.

penguins have done it under Sid/Gino.

just a thought.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, dlbalr said:

Who has a slump-busting GDT in them for tonight?

 

I'll give it a shot. No guarantees though!

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10 hours ago, IN THE HEARTS OF MEN said:

i don't think either will exceed expectations to Petry level or better on the right side... I think only one who has a chance would be Struble but thats asking for a lot stars too aline.

Struble is a LH d-man and a long shot just to make NHL and Norlinder likely is a better prospect with higher ceiling, but also still low chance he will be difference maker.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, hockeyrealist said:

Used to travel to Columbus regularly and Have seen quite a few games live.

Their d looks better than they are because the entire team plays d-oriented hockey and forwards are rarely on the wrong side of the puck.

any of our top 4 would look much better playing on that team And under Torts.
Have seen the Habs play conservative hockey for years but watching Columbus play at home was textbook defensive first hockey, happy to play 0-0 into the third and hope to win 1-0.

Their  d are not all better puck movers and “modern NHL dmen” that are individually superior to the Habs top 4 (excluding Jones who is amazing).  

not that they don’t have great dmen but their system and team buy-in boost them all Individually.
play like that of Drouin, Domi, and a few other Habs forwards would mean zero ice time under torts.

Its boring to watch if you don’t understand and/or appreciate the style of play and makes sense if you have a great goalie (CP31) but requires full team buy in, you can’t let one or a few guys slide because other players see that as well, it’s gotta be all in.

A 15-20 goal guy who is now going to get 7-10 is going to have a harder time accepting the buy-in when the 30-40 goal guy gets a pass on shot blocking, offensive zone positioning, back checking.

On a team like that there is no star mentality, nobody gets a pass, everybody can be benched.

Accountability.

capitals have done that lead by Alex when they won.

penguins have done it under Sid/Gino.

just a thought.

You don’t think Werenski and Jones are better than our top 2 Dmen??  I don’t care whose coaching, I’d take those two in a heartbeat.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Philly’s success is above all a testament to Vigneault’s coaching.

 

Can’t speak to Muller’s merits or demerits - and I think any coach would have pulled out the blender after five periods of being shut out.  That said, I doubt he is in Julien’s class, let alone Vigneault’s. His track record is not promising.

 

I agree with PM Koivu that Domi has probably played himself out of the Habs’ future, and hopefully Drouin has as well. And everyone and his dog can see that playing Mete in the wrong side to accommodate Oulette (!) is either a dumb coaching move or a testament to inadequate depth on D. That pairing blows.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 minutes ago, hab29RETIRED said:

You don’t think Werenski and Jones are better than our top 2 Dmen??  I don’t care whose coaching, I’d take those two in a heartbeat.

Of course YOU would.:popcorn:

If you want less offense and weaker defense, that is the way to go.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
30 minutes ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said:

I agree with PM Koivu that Domi has probably played himself out of the Habs’ future, and hopefully Drouin has as well. And everyone and his dog can see that playing Mete in the wrong side to accommodate Oulette (!) is either a dumb coaching move or a testament to inadequate depth on D. That pairing blows.

 

Does Drouin have any trade value any more? Would someone in the league still think that they can make a legit top-six winger out of him?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Jones is the most overrated defenceman in the NHL.  He's not close to as good as his reputation. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
40 minutes ago, tomh009 said:

 

Does Drouin have any trade value any more? Would someone in the league still think that they can make a legit top-six winger out of him?

 

While I think Drouin would be better placed as a 6th forward on a strong team - free of pressure and with his occasional bursts of offence taken for what they are, i.e., a nice bonus to an already-strong unit - you raise a good question.

 

Maybe we can just not protect him in the expansion draft. I can see Seattle being interested.

 

God, what a horrible trade.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
35 minutes ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said:

God, what a horrible trade.

 

Yeah, in retrospect it is very much that. Somehow they thought he had potential for much more, but it certainly has not worked out that way.

 

But it's water under the bridge now. Maybe we can offer sheet Sergachev to get him back ... 🙄

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, DON said:

Of course YOU would.:popcorn:

If you want less offense and weaker defense, that is the way to go.

 

What? If we're talking position for position, the only Montreal D I'm taking over Columbus is Petry over Savard on the 2nd pairing. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, Fanpuck33 said:

 

What? If we're talking position for position, the only Montreal D I'm taking over Columbus is Petry over Savard on the 2nd pairing. 

CBJ has no one even close to Weber all round and offensively equal top 2 (but overall Habs top 2 outpoint em in both reg season and playoffs), while Habs have Weber and Petry and even Chiarot had 9g.

And 3rd pairing..who cares, but likley flip a coin.

 

:gohabsgo:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said:

God, what a horrible trade.

For sure, Habs could easily do without a winger and adding a Sergachev seems is just what is needed to help solidify the backend.

I still remember Bergevin hinting Drouin being from Quebec was a factor (bonus) in the deal...which is total BS that drives me bonkers!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Sign in to follow this  

×
×
  • Create New...