hab29RETIRED Posted July 5, 2010 Share Posted July 5, 2010 ya - what were they THINKING! keeping Sheldon around in an effort to make the playoffs that year. don't they know it's not about making the playoffs ... it's all about asset management! sheesh!!! So how did that effort turn out? Souray was a real factor eh? This is the same guy who publically nailed Kovy to the cross n the playoff series against Boston and also has made himself persona non grata in Edmonton. Great team guy. Not bad for a pylon whose only asset is his shot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KEEP26 Posted July 5, 2010 Share Posted July 5, 2010 So how did that effort turn out? Souray was a real factor eh? This is the same guy who publically nailed Kovy to the cross n the playoff series against Boston and also has made himself persona non grata in Edmonton. Great team guy. Not bad for a pylon whose only asset is his shot. kovy is a bum, one of the most over paid over rated habs of all time so i think souray was right...not sure if you keep up with EDM but no one whats to play their and the rumour is that its the management and not the players...SOuray is over paid but thats not his problem thats edm management..U are right if we know now that souray was leaving we should of trade him...but 99% of people cant tell the future but if u can givethe habs a call they sure could use your help in the draft...souray was a fan fav and leader, pp man but edm over paid to get him and he took the money and run so now edm crying,same as komi in TO.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hab29RETIRED Posted July 5, 2010 Share Posted July 5, 2010 kovy is a bum, one of the most over paid over rated habs of all time so i think souray was right...not sure if you keep up with EDM but no one whats to play their and the rumour is that its the management and not the players...SOuray is over paid but thats not his problem thats edm management..U are right if we know now that souray was leaving we should of trade him...but 99% of people cant tell the future but if u can givethe habs a call they sure could use your help in the draft...souray was a fan fav and leader, pp man but edm over paid to get him and he took the money and run so now edm crying,same as komi in TO.. So it's ok to rip SK for ripping a teammate in the media, but souray was right?? I don't care what is said in the room behind closed doors, but you do NOT call out or rip a teammate in front of the media. That is not the sign of a so called leader. Souray was NEVER going to repeat those numbers from his career year and the guy has always had a bum wrist and shoulders. What was his injury history at the time? The habs should have been trying to unload him when he had value. If you have Bobby Orr with bum knees you hang on to him because of what he means to the team and what he has given to the team. A one dimensional pylon like Souray was not a guy to hang unto. I couldn't believe Gainey actually offered him the contract he did. Thank god souray turned it down!! As much as I hated the Hamrlik contract, offering that kind of money to a one dimensional injury prone pylon makes even the Gomez contract seem like a bargain! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
revvvrob Posted July 5, 2010 Share Posted July 5, 2010 So how did that effort turn out? Souray was a real factor eh? This is the same guy who publically nailed Kovy to the cross n the playoff series against Boston and also has made himself persona non grata in Edmonton. Great team guy. Not bad for a pylon whose only asset is his shot. if it's all about asset management, then i guess it would have been better to trade Souray for even a bag of pucks ---- but it's about the playoffs. i may be in the minority, but i'd rather see my team scratch and claw its way fighting to get into that 8 spot in the East (even if it fails) than see them trade impact players (and Souray was one that year) at the deadline and in order to play out the string. as a fan, i want to be proud of my team. even if trading Souray would have been the 'asset management' way to go, i would not have been proud. i want to cheer for a fighter. i want to cheer for a team that never gives up. that spirit isn't just on the ice, but includes management. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Chicoutimi Cucumber Posted July 5, 2010 Share Posted July 5, 2010 if it's all about asset management, then i guess it would have been better to trade Souray for even a bag of pucks ---- but it's about the playoffs. i may be in the minority, but i'd rather see my team scratch and claw its way fighting to get into that 8 spot in the East (even if it fails) than see them trade impact players (and Souray was one that year) at the deadline and in order to play out the string. as a fan, i want to be proud of my team. even if trading Souray would have been the 'asset management' way to go, i would not have been proud. i want to cheer for a fighter. i want to cheer for a team that never gives up. that spirit isn't just on the ice, but includes management. That team had zero chance of doing anything even if it scraped into the playoffs. Souray was having a career season and should definitely have been dealt for a quality young player. (If Rivet got us Gorges, what would Souray have yielded??). Having said that, Gainey wasn't just trying to make the playoffs, he was also trying to get UFAs to sign with us and trying to shift the franchise's reputation as a bottom feeder. Keeping Souray around probably had as much to do with trying to change perceptions about the organization as anything else. Still, I disagreed with him then and still do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bar Posted July 5, 2010 Share Posted July 5, 2010 I can see this attitude as an exec, but as a fan, you never want to go into the playoffs with that attitude. Just making the playoffs is all the matters, highly rated teams fall, upsets happen. The 7th place team made it to the stanely cup finals. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Chicoutimi Cucumber Posted July 5, 2010 Share Posted July 5, 2010 I can see this attitude as an exec, but as a fan, you never want to go into the playoffs with that attitude. Just making the playoffs is all the matters, highly rated teams fall, upsets happen. The 7th place team made it to the stanely cup finals. I see your point. As a fan, though, what I wanted back then was HOPE for a better team in the future. Losing Souray for nothing in a pathetic lunge for 8th place did nothing to provide that. (To make matters worse, Gainey foolisly traded Huet for a pick when we actually had a chance to go really deep in 08. He got it exactly backwards). Anyway: spilled milk. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KEEP26 Posted July 5, 2010 Share Posted July 5, 2010 (edited) So it's ok to rip SK for ripping a teammate in the media, but souray was right?? I don't care what is said in the room behind closed doors, but you do NOT call out or rip a teammate in front of the media. That is not the sign of a so called leader. Souray was NEVER going to repeat those numbers from his career year and the guy has always had a bum wrist and shoulders. What was his injury history at the time? The habs should have been trying to unload him when he had value. If you have Bobby Orr with bum knees you hang on to him because of what he means to the team and what he has given to the team. A one dimensional pylon like Souray was not a guy to hang unto. I couldn't believe Gainey actually offered him the contract he did. Thank god souray turned it down!! As much as I hated the Hamrlik contract, offering that kind of money to a one dimensional injury prone pylon makes even the Gomez contract seem like a bargain! first of all SK is not on the same page as souray...souray is a nhl player who was a leader for the habs..SK well i leave it at that..how do u know everthing that happens in the dressing room or what gainey offer players..DO u work for the team, talk like you a inside man, wait it was report in the media lol..everyone but edm knew souray wasnt worth that much money, same as kov in ottawa, and redden in NY..but this happen on everyteam..this is just not a habs problem..welcome to the NHL..lol..look at the other 30 teams in the nhl they all got the same problem, over paid players, fight for the playoffs ect.... kov was a bum and souray said what almost ever was thinking but for the few that had a man crush on this guy... Edited July 5, 2010 by KEEP26 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wamsley01 Posted July 5, 2010 Share Posted July 5, 2010 (edited) I can see this attitude as an exec, but as a fan, you never want to go into the playoffs with that attitude. Just making the playoffs is all the matters, highly rated teams fall, upsets happen. The 7th place team made it to the stanely cup finals. That 7th place team also lost in the Stanley Cup Finals. Just like the Canucks in 1982, North Stars in 1991, Kings in 1993, Capitals in 98, Ducks in 03, Flames in 04 and Oilers in 06. Only the Ducks returned to the Finals and actually won it within 5 years and they had added Niedermayer, Pronger, Getzlaf and Perry to that 03 squad. If the goal is the Cup, then returning assets is your priority if you know a player is leaving. As great as it is to reminisce about the non-existant Cup run in 2010 (The Habs only got 56% of the way there this year), it means absolutely nothing today outside of lining Jeff Molson's pockets. Using the "all you need to do is get in to win" mantra is counter productive considering that in the last 30 years 7 teams went on a great run with ZERO actually winning the Cup. So using the 6-8 seeds as comparable's since 1980 you have 4% making the Finals and 0% winning it. Not the way to build a championship team. Edited July 5, 2010 by Wamsley01 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bar Posted July 5, 2010 Share Posted July 5, 2010 (edited) Like I mentioned above in response to CC. You make a great argument AS an EXEC. As a fan, you cannot like tossing away talent for the future, EVEN if you know it is in the best interest of the team. Just because it hasn't happened yet, doesn't mean it WONT happen. I am agreeing with you both, but as a fan, it's hard to give up on a season, and thats what the habs would have done by unloading at the deadline. It makes it easier as a team really flames out early. Edited July 5, 2010 by bar Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hab29RETIRED Posted July 5, 2010 Share Posted July 5, 2010 first of all SK is not on the same page as souray...souray is a nhl player who was a leader for the habs..SK well i leave it at that..how do u know everthing that happens in the dressing room or what gainey offer players..DO u work for the team, talk like you a inside man, wait it was report in the media lol..everyone but edm knew souray wasnt worth that much money, same as kov in ottawa, and redden in NY..but this happen on everyteam..this is just not a habs problem..welcome to the NHL..lol..look at the other 30 teams in the nhl they all got the same problem, over paid players, fight for the playoffs ect.... kov was a bum and souray said what almost ever was thinking but for the few that had a man crush on this guy... Gainey offered the same deal to Souray as what Hamrlik ended up signing for. Gainey even said that he tried right to the end, but Souray wanted to go home. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fromage Posted July 5, 2010 Share Posted July 5, 2010 It's not becoming of an organization such as the habs to tank a season or give up on a playoff run if we are in the hunt. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hab29RETIRED Posted July 5, 2010 Share Posted July 5, 2010 That 7th place team also lost in the Stanley Cup Finals. Just like the Canucks in 1982, North Stars in 1991, Kings in 1993, Capitals in 98, Ducks in 03, Flames in 04 and Oilers in 06. Only the Ducks returned to the Finals and actually won it within 5 years and they had added Niedermayer, Pronger, Getzlaf and Perry to that 03 squad. If the goal is the Cup, then returning assets is your priority if you know a player is leaving. As great as it is to reminisce about the non-existant Cup run in 2010 (The Habs only got 56% of the way there this year), it means absolutely nothing today outside of lining Jeff Molson's pockets. Using the "all you need to do is get in to win" mantra is counter productive considering that in the last 30 years 7 teams went on a great run with ZERO actually winning the Cup. So using the 6-8 seeds as comparable's since 1980 you have 4% making the Finals and 0% winning it. Not the way to build a championship team. totally agree. The problem is habs mgmt have not been looking at the big picture. As great as this years run was, all it did was move us down around 12 spots in the draft - which in turn also resulted us trading away our #2 pick. Add that with the #2 that was already traded for Moore. But to me the worst is we are stuck with Martin for another year and just lost the one young coach who I had really thought could have become the next great habs coach. There has not been a single player from Hamilton that has not raved about Boucher. Given some of the young players in our system, Boucher would have been the perfect guy to go forward with Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
revvvrob Posted July 5, 2010 Share Posted July 5, 2010 It's not becoming of an organization such as the habs to tank a season or give up on a playoff run if we are in the hunt. plus - if management quits on a season in 2007, what does that say to the team in 2008 and beyond? i think BG was transforming the culture of the Habs. we saw 'never say die' in the 2009-2010 edition of the club - the fruit of seeds that began to be planted when BG took over as GM. getting Gorges as a throw in with the 2nd rounder for Rivet wasn't the norm, and far too high a standard to think we could have gotten something similar for Souray. the marginal talent we would have received for the rental Souray would have been to the Oilers is of significantly less value than the attitude shift that was happening before our eyes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dlbalr Posted July 5, 2010 Share Posted July 5, 2010 Without trying to spark too much here, the rumour I keep getting told is that the player the Habs may be looking to move is Travis Moen. They'd take his salary coupled with most of what they have left to go after around a $3 million forward. No one seems to know who that forward is but my personal guess (note that this is my own musing here) is that Raffi Torres may fit that bill, a physical winger to play on a newly revamped 3rd line that could provide some offense as well. Not sure on how valid it is, but I've heard it enough that I'll note it here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dalhabs Posted July 5, 2010 Share Posted July 5, 2010 plus - if management quits on a season in 2007, what does that say to the team in 2008 and beyond? i think BG was transforming the culture of the Habs. we saw 'never say die' in the 2009-2010 edition of the club - the fruit of seeds that began to be planted when BG took over as GM. getting Gorges as a throw in with the 2nd rounder for Rivet wasn't the norm, and far too high a standard to think we could have gotten something similar for Souray. the marginal talent we would have received for the rental Souray would have been to the Oilers is of significantly less value than the attitude shift that was happening before our eyes. We got Gorges and a 1st rounder for Rivet if I remember correctly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dlbalr Posted July 5, 2010 Share Posted July 5, 2010 We got Gorges and a 1st rounder for Rivet if I remember correctly. Correct, with that 1st rounder being Max Pacioretty. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BTH Posted July 5, 2010 Share Posted July 5, 2010 (edited) Without trying to spark too much here, the rumour I keep getting told is that the player the Habs may be looking to move is Travis Moen. They'd take his salary coupled with most of what they have left to go after around a $3 million forward. No one seems to know who that forward is but my personal guess (note that this is my own musing here) is that Raffi Torres may fit that bill, a physical winger to play on a newly revamped 3rd line that could provide some offense as well. Not sure on how valid it is, but I've heard it enough that I'll note it here. Torres > Moen but I wouldn't want to lose Moen... Torres scores 20 goals but he's only a third liner. He would be a great addition but at double Moen's cost? edit: oh, also Kovalchuk is reportedly about to sign with the Devils, 60M/ 7 years. A few moves will probably happen now that he's out of the way. Edited July 5, 2010 by BTH Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saskhab Posted July 5, 2010 Share Posted July 5, 2010 Torres is done. If we got him to ditch Moen that'd be a waste. Torres is worse defensively and has injury issues that make him unreliable offensively. No way should we move Moen to sign Torres at $3m. $3m is a HUGE overpayment for Torres. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KEEP26 Posted July 5, 2010 Share Posted July 5, 2010 Torres is done. If we got him to ditch Moen that'd be a waste. Torres is worse defensively and has injury issues that make him unreliable offensively. No way should we move Moen to sign Torres at $3m. $3m is a HUGE overpayment for Torres. i would like torries but dont what to lose moen, but i wouldnt mine 2.5mil on a one year deal.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dalhabs Posted July 6, 2010 Share Posted July 6, 2010 Id like a grinder-goon player. Not the Laraque type but the one that can fight AND have some skill as well to be on the ice for all games and not just the high risk games. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheDriveFor25 Posted July 6, 2010 Share Posted July 6, 2010 Not a fan of Raffi.. much rather give his spot to a rookie. I think we need one top 6 forward and we're done, and Torres does not fit in the top 6. Cammy - Pleks - ?? Gionta - Gomez - A.Kost Moen - Eller - Pouliot Pyatt - Laps - Darche Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bar Posted July 6, 2010 Share Posted July 6, 2010 I'd rather White get that spot than Darche, but thats just being picky. Any thoughts of maybe Pax being able to take a top 6 spot this year, or is this just wishful thinking on my part? Maybe Pax for the third line, and chickenboy with cammy and pleks? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeLassister Posted July 6, 2010 Share Posted July 6, 2010 Not a fan of Raffi.. much rather give his spot to a rookie. I think we need one top 6 forward and we're done, and Torres does not fit in the top 6. Cammy - Pleks - ?? Gionta - Gomez - A.Kost Moen - Eller - Pouliot Pyatt - Laps - Darche I go with Arthyukin instead of Pouliot, Pouliot instead of ?? and Max Pac instead of Darche. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Posted July 6, 2010 Share Posted July 6, 2010 Except the fact you guys forgot Boyd. Barring trades the lineup is pretty much set. Pouliot Gomez Gionta AK46 Pleks Cammi Moen Eller Lapierre Pyatt Boyd White or Darche Pacioretty needs a full year of health playing with some offensive players Subban Hamrlik Gorges Gill Spacek O'Byrne Until markov gets back Price and Auld Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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