JoeLassister Posted March 24, 2013 Share Posted March 24, 2013 Markov carried Komi, just like he carried Souray before him. Defensively, I think Emelin is much sounder then Komi. Emelin doesn't lose his effectiveness if he isn't paired favourably. Komi's effectiveness was dependent on playing with Markov. So ? Komi was paired with Markov. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hab29RETIRED Posted March 24, 2013 Share Posted March 24, 2013 So ? Komi was paired with Markov. Question is, is Komi actually better then Emelin, or is the fact that Markov was a much better player in 2008, that Komi looks like he is better then Emelin. Frankly, I think as a hitter, Emelin much more consistently lays the devastating hit then Komi ever did. Defensively as well, Emelin this year is more sounder then what I remember of Komi. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Chicoutimi Cucumber Posted March 24, 2013 Share Posted March 24, 2013 This team certainly seems sounder than the 2008 team - but we all benefit from hindsight when it comes to the latter. It's too easy to say in 2013 that we knew all along that the Kostitsyn brothers were never going to amount to anything and that Komisarek was a fraud. Most of us didn't see it that way at the time. Commandant, you are absolutely right that 'going for it' doesn't automatically translate into results. In fact, I always hated the way fans insist that teams 'go for it' and then attack the GM for doing just that when it fails to work out. All I'm trying to say is that we should avoid the temptation to not see this team as a contender just because it wasn't 'part of the plan' that we contend this year. That way lies missed opportunities. This doesn't necessarily mean that we should sell the farm in order to win now; indeed, I'd argue that we should not; but nor should we deny that something special may be going on here that will not necessarily be repeated or even built upon going forward. I'll defer to MB's judgement, but I don't want him dismissing what we're seeing on the grounds that it doesn't fit the schedule. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hab29RETIRED Posted March 24, 2013 Share Posted March 24, 2013 I'm totally against giving up any substantial for a rental - 3rd round pick and b group of prospects (bournvil/leblanc/kristo), in a package IF it means getting a top 4 tough dman, or top 6 forward that is SIGNED for at least two more years. Otherwise only trade a 3rd round pick or expandable parts like Weber, Moen. I wonder if weber, Moen and a 3rd would land Jagr. In Moen the stars would get a guy signed for next year, as well as an offensive dman prospect, who would certainly be picked up if the habs tried to send him down. I know many hear would disagree, but I really think that with a change of scenery, weber can be an effective 2nd pairing dman and PP specialist. This team certainly seems sounder than the 2008 team - but we all benefit from hindsight when it comes to the latter. It's too easy to say in 2013 that we knew all along that the Kostitsyn brothers were never going to amount to anything and that Komisarek was a fraud. Most of us didn't see it that way at the time. Commandant, you are absolutely right that 'going for it' doesn't automatically translate into results. In fact, I always hated the way fans insist that teams 'go for it' and then attack the GM for doing just that when it fails to work out. All I'm trying to say is that we should avoid the temptation to not see this team as a contender just because it wasn't 'part of the plan' that we contend this year. That way lies missed opportunities. This doesn't necessarily mean that we should sell the farm in order to win now; indeed, I'd argue that we should not; but nor should we deny that something special may be going on here that will not necessarily be repeated or even built upon going forward. I'll defer to MB's judgement, but I don't want him dismissing what we're seeing on the grounds that it doesn't fit the schedule. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commandant Posted March 24, 2013 Share Posted March 24, 2013 Biggest difference Price 13 > Price 08 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hab29RETIRED Posted March 24, 2013 Share Posted March 24, 2013 Biggest difference Price 13 > Price 08 Forgot to mention the obvious one. But I think until Price wins a series, there's going to be a lot of people questioning him still Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
illWill Posted March 24, 2013 Share Posted March 24, 2013 Big difference between this year and 2008. Subban > Hamrlik Emelin > Komisarik Gorges 13 > Gorges 08 Pleks 13 > Pleks 08 MaxPac > AK46 Galy > SK74 Gallegher > Lats Gionta > Higgins Prust > Laps Ryder 13> Ryder 08 Tinordi > O'byrne White > Begin (some may disagree) On the negative: Markov 13 < Markov 08 No one with Kovy or Koivu's playoff pedigree (with exception of Gionta) non-factors: Bouillon 08 = Bouillon 13 (more or less) Streit = Diaz (if healthy - and Diaz actually plays defence) Lastly, while I was COMPLETELY against the Therrian hiring, he for the most part done a good job - but needs to win in the playoffs to win me over completely. However, he is a MUCH better coach then Carbo. On the whole, I like this team a lot better. I think boston, pittsburgh, Chicago and Anaheim are a lot stronger, but in the playoffs anything can happen. Picking up a guy like Jagr would go a LONG ways to make us a stronger dark horse. I agree he should be a winger. He's a centre beause the other options sucked (until the Halpern Signing) Okay, now do one for every other team in the league. You can't just single out one team and say they are better, therefore they should have better results. You aren't comparing them to anything. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
illWill Posted March 24, 2013 Share Posted March 24, 2013 If you think this is our best shot for years to come, you have no confidence in the team. I see this as the start of something great. If we're an Eastern Conference leader now with young kids just starting to bud on the squad and a lot of prospects still waiting to come over or are applying their craft in the AHL, we're in a position to become an NHL Powerhouse. Going all in this year would be a terrible waste. You need to be smart. It bugs me when people describe a team like this and expect them to become automatically better next year. How can you improve on first/second in the Eastern Conference?? There are too many variables to hedge your bets in any particular year. This team is one of the best teams in the league today as it stands now. "A terrible waste going for it"?? There are plenty of other teams that are already set now and for the future as well. There is no magic time frame for us to become a favorite. Ask the 2012, 8th seed L.A Kings if they should have waited to make moves to make a run. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kiwihab Posted March 24, 2013 Share Posted March 24, 2013 Back to the rumors, I've heard the Morrow rumor alot but next to nothing about Jagr. I would have thought Jagr was a much better fit for this team if they are going for a deep run. Anyone else have any thoughts on Jagr, if he'd be worth it, and what he'd cost us? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dlbalr Posted March 24, 2013 Share Posted March 24, 2013 Otherwise only trade a 3rd round pick or expandable parts like Weber, Moen. I wonder if weber, Moen and a 3rd would land Jagr. I think there's no possible way Dallas would do that. If they're selling Jagr, they will want quality in return, not quantity. Weber's value is that of a waiver wire guy at this point. Many here think Moen's three years remaining is a negative, why wouldn't the Stars? They want a bit of cost certainty for their top six but will they want to commit that much to a depth forward? Probably not. To get Jagr via trade, my guess is that it will start with a 2nd round pick plus a second tier prospect. Few teams are selling so the cost for impact players is going to be high; a collection of spare parts isn't going to do it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sakiqc Posted March 24, 2013 Share Posted March 24, 2013 Whatever Bergevin does, I hope he contributes to bringing the price higher for some of those available commodities. You don't want the Bruins or Pens to easily improve. I don't see the Habs making a major move. If the Halpern acquisition is any indication, the Habs are really going with a team concept and Bergevin is only adding the specific ingredients that lacks. Jagr would be great with Plekanec, but the thing is Jagr is a RW and is not taking our captain's spot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
habs rule Posted March 24, 2013 Share Posted March 24, 2013 I think there's no possible way Dallas would do that. If they're selling Jagr, they will want quality in return, not quantity. Weber's value is that of a waiver wire guy at this point. Many here think Moen's three years remaining is a negative, why wouldn't the Stars? They want a bit of cost certainty for their top six but will they want to commit that much to a depth forward? Probably not. To get Jagr via trade, my guess is that it will start with a 2nd round pick plus a second tier prospect. Few teams are selling so the cost for impact players is going to be high; a collection of spare parts isn't going to do it. I believe that Jagr would be a great asset for our team, however he is a total rental, may be his last year, unless he thinks he's chris chelios or gordie howe, so the price has to be cheap, a 3rd rounder. If more than that we have to go with what we have. I don't see any more 4.5 to 5 million dollar contracts in his future but who knows. GMs are crazy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dlbalr Posted March 24, 2013 Share Posted March 24, 2013 I believe that Jagr would be a great asset for our team, however he is a total rental, may be his last year, unless he thinks he's chris chelios or gordie howe, so the price has to be cheap, a 3rd rounder. If more than that we have to go with what we have. I don't see any more 4.5 to 5 million dollar contracts in his future but who knows. GMs are crazy. For a 3rd rounder, would Dallas do better to hold on to him? It's not like they're guaranteed sellers - they are in a playoff spot at the moment. Unless they choke over the next few games, they'll be in the thick of it so it will have to be better than mediocre value to pry him (or Morrow) away. And in a market where there are few sellers and lots of potential buyers, I have to think someone will give them that if they do indeed move him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commandant Posted March 24, 2013 Share Posted March 24, 2013 Forgot to mention the obvious one. But I think until Price wins a series, there's going to be a lot of people questioning him still Price won a series in 2008. The performance included 2 shutouts, (a 1-0 win in game 4, and a shutout in game 7), as well as 2 wins where he only allowed 1 goal in each game. Also in 2011 Price was phenomenal in the first round. It wasn't his fault that the Habs literally could not score at ES in the last 3 games of the series. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Chicoutimi Cucumber Posted March 24, 2013 Share Posted March 24, 2013 Price won a series in 2008. The performance included 2 shutouts, (a 1-0 win in game 4, and a shutout in game 7), as well as 2 wins where he only allowed 1 goal in each game. Also in 2011 Price was phenomenal in the first round. It wasn't his fault that the Habs literally could not score at ES in the last 3 games of the series. Yeah, I don't understand the criticisms of Price at all. It's as if his growing pains in 2009 and 2010 have fixed him as a question mark in the fans' minds for all time. The simple fact is he is one of the very top goalies in the game, and he's still very young. What the hell more do we want. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Machine of Loving Grace Posted March 24, 2013 Share Posted March 24, 2013 Yeah, I don't understand the criticisms of Price at all. It's as if his growing pains in 2009 and 2010 have fixed him as a question mark in the fans' minds for all time. The simple fact is he is one of the very top goalies in the game, and he's still very young. What the hell more do we want. There was a poster over on HFBoards who was insanely focused on Price and how he wasn't as good as fans said he was. One of his biggest hang ups was the fact Price was "handed" the starter position as if it makes any difference to his current play. Eventually he took his criticisms to the general board where fans of every team can discuss and they usually pick apart and attack anyone who tries to place their home team players on a pedestal and asked if Price was a Top 5 goalie. Like 2/3rds of the response was people saying he was. Even Leaf fans and Bruins fans. Most were thinking he posted just to brag about Price as a top five goaltender. I don't think I've seen him post since, or at least not about Price. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sakiqc Posted March 24, 2013 Share Posted March 24, 2013 I find it strange too when I hear fans who don't like Price. I think they come from fans who haven't followed his career or have stop watching hockey after Halak left. The thing is, we can't upgrade Price! Let's say we trade Price and our 1st round pick for a better goalie, who would it be? There is none - that is no trade that would make sense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trizzak Posted March 24, 2013 Share Posted March 24, 2013 I find it strange too when I hear fans who don't like Price. I think they come from fans who haven't followed his career or have stop watching hockey after Halak left. The thing is, we can't upgrade Price! Let's say we trade Price and our 1st round pick for a better goalie, who would it be? There is none - that is no trade that would make sense. Goalies better than Price? Lundqvist is probably one. Rinne another possibility. I wouldn't trade Price and and a 1st for either, I'm just saying there are better goalies in the league at the moment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bostonhabs Posted March 24, 2013 Share Posted March 24, 2013 I would trade price for a fair few goalies for a 1st and a number 1 starter. i think price is very good but lets not put him in the hall already when he has done nothing to prove he should be in there. And i am a big price supporter it is sad we have to point out he has won a rd in the playoffs to make a case he is awesome. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Machine of Loving Grace Posted March 25, 2013 Share Posted March 25, 2013 I would trade price for a fair few goalies for a 1st and a number 1 starter. i think price is very good but lets not put him in the hall already when he has done nothing to prove he should be in there. And i am a big price supporter it is sad we have to point out he has won a rd in the playoffs to make a case he is awesome. Calling a goalie Top five currently doesn't put him in the Hall. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeLassister Posted March 25, 2013 Share Posted March 25, 2013 Calling a goalie Top five currently doesn't put him in the Hall. Especially when the other names mentionned haven't done anything more than Price to deserve the Hall... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sakiqc Posted March 25, 2013 Share Posted March 25, 2013 There may be better goalies than Price but there's absolutely no trade that would make sense if we want to upgrade him. There's also no reason to trade him. He is only 25 and will only get better. No reason to get a younger goalie with higher potential. No reason to trade for a more experienced and aged goalie. He has just the right age to be with our core in his prime. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bostonhabs Posted March 25, 2013 Share Posted March 25, 2013 I never said to trade him. and i am not sure if he is top five what makes u top five? To me to be one of the best is to win big games and to win when to pressure is on lets see how we do this year since we are a playoff team. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JGC21 Posted March 25, 2013 Share Posted March 25, 2013 If Prust and Bourque are still hurting come playoff time, this team is done. With Morrow going to the Pens, Habs still need to get tougher if they want a run at this year's cup. I don't think White is the answer. Would have loved Morrow. Not sure who is still available? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Chicoutimi Cucumber Posted March 25, 2013 Share Posted March 25, 2013 If Prust and Bourque are still hurting come playoff time, this team is done. With Morrow going to the Pens, Habs still need to get tougher if they want a run at this year's cup. I don't think White is the answer. Would have loved Morrow. Not sure who is still available? I think that's perhaps overstated but ultimately fair comment. We could win a series while missing one of those guys, but not both. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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