JoeLassister Posted March 23, 2013 Share Posted March 23, 2013 absolutely nothing except prust is a way better hockey player right now... and its not "if he's cold" ... he is cold! im not advocating he be up there long term. i just think he needs to take a step back, take a week off to reset his mental state of mind. it will remind him that this isnt the OHL. talent alone aint gonna cut it cause everyone is talented in the NHL! its who wants it most who will fight for every inch of the ice... see brendon gallagher. plus as it stands white has got a hurt back so we might never be fully fit! are we all really worried about stunting this guys growth? geez MT just benched PK for a dumb move. guy turns around and bags a brace. its the thinking that he is obligated a spot because hes Alexxxx Galchenyukkkk! when in turn he should earn and fight for one. this is the same bad thinking that earns him the #1 star in a game that he has no business being except for fan fare. we were all up in arms when Eller got a handful of games and in hindsight it was the best thing for him I probably don't watch enough games, (missed something like 3 of the last 5), but every time I watch the Habs, Galchenyuk is never the "coldest" forward. Even more, he often seems to come up with big plays out of the blue like his sweet assist on Armstrong's goal on tuesday... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dlbalr Posted March 23, 2013 Share Posted March 23, 2013 I don't think Halpern would hurt, but my guess is that someone will pick him up long before he gets to the Habs. As for having room, you need to remember that rosters can expand at the end of the trading deadline. Exactly, and with the injuries the team has right now (and Dumont being waiver exempt if need be), they can afford to pick a player up without having to tiptoe around the 23-man limit. At this particular moment - even with Blunden up for a DTD (non-IR'ed) White - they have a vacant spot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMMR Posted March 23, 2013 Share Posted March 23, 2013 On L'Antichambre tonight, the panel discussed the Habs claiming Jeff Halpern off waivers from the Rangers. Both Carbonneau and Gagnon said it would improve their 4th line and since Halpern is a good faceoff guy, he would help the team immensely in the playoffs. A move like this would ultimately spell doom for Gabriel Dumont. Who would you rather have, Halpern or Dumont? We'll know tomorrow by noon. WIth everyone healthy no but the Habs no more about the injury situation than us. If they claim he he ca be useful. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TurdBurglar Posted March 23, 2013 Share Posted March 23, 2013 WIth everyone healthy no but the Habs no more about the injury situation than us. If they claim he he ca be useful. Halpern is a better 4th line center than White. Plus with the ice-time distribution MT has the team on, Halpern will enjoy a bit more ice-time. He's averaging 9:09 with the Rangers, while every regular 4th line player is averaging more time on our 4th line, White being the lowest at 9:32. Armstrong is averaging over 11:07 and Moen is averaging 11:45. If we can get 11 minutes out of Halpern, that will mean less ice-time for our top-3 centers and should result in more effort per shift. I'm really liking this pickup. Gives us our faceoff ace, not a huge size at center, but good defensively. Plus this adds another center that can pull a regular shift on the PK, ease down on Pleks PK minutes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JGC21 Posted March 23, 2013 Share Posted March 23, 2013 So was Halpern claimed? So exciting... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JGC21 Posted March 23, 2013 Share Posted March 23, 2013 for what its worth Ek says were going hard after Morrow Gainey would be happy with Bournival, Weber and a 2nd. Would Bergevin do it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Machine of Loving Grace Posted March 23, 2013 Share Posted March 23, 2013 Gainey would be happy with Bournival, Weber and a 2nd. Would Bergevin do it? Probably not. If someone is coming onto the roster, somebody has to go out. We're overflowing right now with players. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commandant Posted March 23, 2013 Share Posted March 23, 2013 Bournival and a 2nd for a rental? I'm not in favour of that move. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sakiqc Posted March 23, 2013 Share Posted March 23, 2013 Bournival and a 2nd for a rental? I'm not in favour of that move. Why ? If the Habs think they have a shot at the Cup this year, shouldn't they go for it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Machine of Loving Grace Posted March 23, 2013 Share Posted March 23, 2013 Why ? If the Habs think they have a shot at the Cup this year, shouldn't they go for it? Bergevin doesn't seem too interested in giving up the long term for the short term. Cole for Ryder cleared cap space on the long term. The team has a plethora of draft picks this year. I could see him moving one or two but otherwise, it's no surprise he's using the waiver wire for bodies (Attempted Sestito, claimed Halpern) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TurdBurglar Posted March 23, 2013 Share Posted March 23, 2013 Probably not. If someone is coming onto the roster, somebody has to go out. We're overflowing right now with players. If we're giving up a roster player for Morrow, the the additional cost is going down. If we give up roster player, White seems to me to be the one to go, especially now we picked up Halpern. Young guy, who doesn't really have a spot in our roster as it sits now. If it is White, then it's going to be an additional 2nd, or a veteran(Moen/Armstrong) and a 3rd. Could throw Weber in there too, if Dallas is interested. We will have too many roster players right now and it's going to come down to trade or waiver and possible lose them. If Moen/Armstrong/White get waived, then their gone, I guarantee it. Bourque - Pleks - Gionta Patches - DD - Gally Chucky - Eller - Ryder Prust - Halpern - Morrow Moen, White, Armstrong Markov - Emelin Gorges - Subban Boullion - Diaz Kaberle, Weber Price - Budaj 25 players officially on the roster when we're only allowed to have 22. Just as well to try to trade one of those who would be sent down instead of losing them for nothing. Only way to get around it, without losing a player to waivers, would be to send Chucky and Gally down and I doubt that will happen, especially since that will mean Chucky is gone until next year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commandant Posted March 23, 2013 Share Posted March 23, 2013 Why ? If the Habs think they have a shot at the Cup this year, shouldn't they go for it? I don't think this team is ready for a cup run yet. Win a couple playoff rounds? Sure... but this rebuild is not complete. This isn't the time to trade future assets for rentals... not yet anyway IMO. If we're giving up a roster player for Morrow, the the additional cost is going down. If we give up roster player, White seems to me to be the one to go, especially now we picked up Halpern. Young guy, who doesn't really have a spot in our roster as it sits now. If it is White, then it's going to be an additional 2nd, or a veteran(Moen/Armstrong) and a 3rd. Could throw Weber in there too, if Dallas is interested. We will have too many roster players right now and it's going to come down to trade or waiver and possible lose them. If Moen/Armstrong/White get waived, then their gone, I guarantee it. Bourque - Pleks - Gionta Patches - DD - Gally Chucky - Eller - Ryder Prust - Halpern - Morrow Moen, White, Armstrong Markov - Emelin Gorges - Subban Boullion - Diaz Kaberle, Weber Price - Budaj 25 players officially on the roster when we're only allowed to have 22. Just as well to try to trade one of those who would be sent down instead of losing them for nothing. Only way to get around it, without losing a player to waivers, would be to send Chucky and Gally down and I doubt that will happen, especially since that will mean Chucky is gone until next year. After the trade deadline there is no roster limit. Also the pre-deadline limit is 23 not 22. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hab29RETIRED Posted March 23, 2013 Share Posted March 23, 2013 No way I'd get rid of white for Halpern. White can be the heart and soul, sandpaper player for us for 10 years, like draper and maltby were for Detroit. Halpern is one and done. If anything, this gives us the option of having two guys that can play centre on the 4th line. If we move anyone it should be Moen or Armstrong. If we're giving up a roster player for Morrow, the the additional cost is going down. If we give up roster player, White seems to me to be the one to go, especially now we picked up Halpern. Young guy, who doesn't really have a spot in our roster as it sits now. If it is White, then it's going to be an additional 2nd, or a veteran(Moen/Armstrong) and a 3rd. Could throw Weber in there too, if Dallas is interested. We will have too many roster players right now and it's going to come down to trade or waiver and possible lose them. If Moen/Armstrong/White get waived, then their gone, I guarantee it. Bourque - Pleks - Gionta Patches - DD - Gally Chucky - Eller - Ryder Prust - Halpern - Morrow Moen, White, Armstrong Markov - Emelin Gorges - Subban Boullion - Diaz Kaberle, Weber Price - Budaj 25 players officially on the roster when we're only allowed to have 22. Just as well to try to trade one of those who would be sent down instead of losing them for nothing. Only way to get around it, without losing a player to waivers, would be to send Chucky and Gally down and I doubt that will happen, especially since that will mean Chucky is gone until next year. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlueKross Posted March 23, 2013 Share Posted March 23, 2013 Unless they changed the roster limit in the new CBA, the roster limit is 23 which will expand in ten days. MB has this under control, your not going to lose anybody. Halpern is just a depth signing. No big deal. This is a bad time of the year to fall in love with somebody on the roster To get you got to give. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Chicoutimi Cucumber Posted March 23, 2013 Share Posted March 23, 2013 I don't think this team is ready for a cup run yet. Win a couple playoff rounds? Sure... but this rebuild is not complete. This isn't the time to trade future assets for rentals... not yet anyway IMO. I hear what you're saying and tend to agree, but the problem is that we've seen this movie before. In 2008 we had a team of savvy vets and loads of promising young talent that came together to unexpectedly buzzsaw through the league, much as today. Presumably informed by the philosophy that 'this is not the year despite great results,' Gainey weakened the team at the deadline by trading Huet for a pick, and when we got eliminated the general fan attitude was that the team's best lay before it. Lo and behold. It turns out that the rebuild went south and the Gainey era never recovered. Ever since then, I've been a bit leery about rationalizing your way out of success on the grounds that it's arrived ahead of schedule. I'm not saying that we should be huge buyers at the deadline or sacrifice the future for NOW...but we should remember that there is no guarantee of linear progression going forward. If MB decides to move a pick for short-term help, I could understand that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
illWill Posted March 23, 2013 Share Posted March 23, 2013 but we should remember that there is no guarantee of linear progression going forward. This I really don't understand the thought process behind "waiting till we're ready" to go for it all. Currently we have a team that has played exceptionally well ALL season except for a handful of games. Until they show us that they can't string together wins, there's no reason to believe that they cannot go deep in the playoffs. I am all for trading a part of the future for a better shot right now. Who knows what the future holds....this year might be our best shot for years to come. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JGC21 Posted March 23, 2013 Share Posted March 23, 2013 After seeing what the Habs have done for 30 games I would gamble a bit towards strengthening the team for a cup run. I hope the Morrow rumours are true and that MB gets his man, who he could perhaps sign to an extension in the off-season. I don't mind parting with Moen, White or Weber + prospect (Bournival) + pick. That's hardly mortgaging away the future, especially with the Habs having so many picks in this year's draft. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Machine of Loving Grace Posted March 23, 2013 Share Posted March 23, 2013 This I really don't understand the thought process behind "waiting till we're ready" to go for it all. Currently we have a team that has played exceptionally well ALL season except for a handful of games. Until they show us that they can't string together wins, there's no reason to believe that they cannot go deep in the playoffs. I am all for trading a part of the future for a better shot right now. Who knows what the future holds....this year might be our best shot for years to come. If you think this is our best shot for years to come, you have no confidence in the team. I see this as the start of something great. If we're an Eastern Conference leader now with young kids just starting to bud on the squad and a lot of prospects still waiting to come over or are applying their craft in the AHL, we're in a position to become an NHL Powerhouse. Going all in this year would be a terrible waste. You need to be smart. I'm fine for making a move or two but I believe in team chemistry as well. I remember the Leafs adding Brian Leetch and Ron Francis at the deadline once. Sounded great on paper but Ron Francis just couldn't play in the playoffs with the same heart and emotion on the third line. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMMR Posted March 23, 2013 Share Posted March 23, 2013 I agree with the sentiment of not giving up Bournival or White. This could be the first year of many good shots at a nice run! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hab29RETIRED Posted March 23, 2013 Share Posted March 23, 2013 I agree with the sentiment of not giving up Bournival or White. This could be the first year of many good shots at a nice run! agreed. The only roster players i'd give up this year are Moen, Armstrong, Bouillon, Ryder, Bourque and Weber. I can't see them trading Bouillon since he's just been extended, or Ryder/Bourque unless we got another scorer with size back. That leaves Weber (injured), Moen and Armstrong. Unless we get a guy that is locked up for at least two more years, I wouldn't want to move a prospect like Bournvil, Kristo, etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Chicoutimi Cucumber Posted March 23, 2013 Share Posted March 23, 2013 If you think this is our best shot for years to come, you have no confidence in the team. I see this as the start of something great. If we're an Eastern Conference leader now with young kids just starting to bud on the squad and a lot of prospects still waiting to come over or are applying their craft in the AHL, we're in a position to become an NHL Powerhouse. Going all in this year would be a terrible waste. You need to be smart. I'm fine for making a move or two but I believe in team chemistry as well. I remember the Leafs adding Brian Leetch and Ron Francis at the deadline once. Sounded great on paper but Ron Francis just couldn't play in the playoffs with the same heart and emotion on the third line. Yes...but this is EXACTLY what everyone said in 2008. I'm not saying it's wrong. But it sure was wrong then, and it could be wrong now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commandant Posted March 23, 2013 Share Posted March 23, 2013 I hear what you're saying and tend to agree, but the problem is that we've seen this movie before. In 2008 we had a team of savvy vets and loads of promising young talent that came together to unexpectedly buzzsaw through the league, much as today. Presumably informed by the philosophy that 'this is not the year despite great results,' Gainey weakened the team at the deadline by trading Huet for a pick, and when we got eliminated the general fan attitude was that the team's best lay before it. Lo and behold. It turns out that the rebuild went south and the Gainey era never recovered. Ever since then, I've been a bit leery about rationalizing your way out of success on the grounds that it's arrived ahead of schedule. I'm not saying that we should be huge buyers at the deadline or sacrifice the future for NOW...but we should remember that there is no guarantee of linear progression going forward. If MB decides to move a pick for short-term help, I could understand that. Then in the summer of 2008 we decided to move a 2nd round pick for Lang, and a 1st and 2nd round pick for Tanguay. The 1st round pick ended up being Greg Nemisz.... however that was Calgary making the pick. Does Timmins take John Carlson, Jacob Markstrom, Tyler Ennis or Roman Josi who were on the board. The first 2nd round pick ends up being... Stefan Elliot.... however that could also have been Richard Panik, Dmitri Orlov, Tomas Tatar, etc... The second, 2nd round pick ends up being Jared Knight... however could also have been Justin Faulk, Devante Smith-Pelley, Tyler Toffoli, Ryan Spooner. So selling young assets to accelerate the rebuild didn't pay off with that team either. On a seperate note, when it comes to Ryan White, I think he has a place on a fourth line in the NHL, but the man is simply not a centre. He should be playing RW. Yes, he's good on faceoffs. However a combination of lack of footspeed and lack of vision is not what I want to see out of an NHL centre. His best spot is RW. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hab29RETIRED Posted March 23, 2013 Share Posted March 23, 2013 Yes...but this is EXACTLY what everyone said in 2008. I'm not saying it's wrong. But it sure was wrong then, and it could be wrong now. Big difference between this year and 2008. Subban > Hamrlik Emelin > Komisarik Gorges 13 > Gorges 08 Pleks 13 > Pleks 08 MaxPac > AK46 Galy > SK74 Gallegher > Lats Gionta > Higgins Prust > Laps Ryder 13> Ryder 08 Tinordi > O'byrne White > Begin (some may disagree) On the negative: Markov 13 < Markov 08 No one with Kovy or Koivu's playoff pedigree (with exception of Gionta) non-factors: Bouillon 08 = Bouillon 13 (more or less) Streit = Diaz (if healthy - and Diaz actually plays defence) Lastly, while I was COMPLETELY against the Therrian hiring, he for the most part done a good job - but needs to win in the playoffs to win me over completely. However, he is a MUCH better coach then Carbo. On the whole, I like this team a lot better. I think boston, pittsburgh, Chicago and Anaheim are a lot stronger, but in the playoffs anything can happen. Picking up a guy like Jagr would go a LONG ways to make us a stronger dark horse. Then in the summer of 2008 we decided to move a 2nd round pick for Lang, and a 1st and 2nd round pick for Tanguay. The 1st round pick ended up being Greg Nemisz.... however that was Calgary making the pick. Does Timmins take John Carlson, Jacob Markstrom, Tyler Ennis or Roman Josi who were on the board. The first 2nd round pick ends up being... Stefan Elliot.... however that could also have been Richard Panik, Dmitri Orlov, Tomas Tatar, etc... The second, 2nd round pick ends up being Jared Knight... however could also have been Justin Faulk, Devante Smith-Pelley, Tyler Toffoli, Ryan Spooner. So selling young assets to accelerate the rebuild didn't pay off with that team either. On a seperate note, when it comes to Ryan White, I think he has a place on a fourth line in the NHL, but the man is simply not a centre. He should be playing RW. Yes, he's good on faceoffs. However a combination of lack of footspeed and lack of vision is not what I want to see out of an NHL centre. His best spot is RW. I agree he should be a winger. He's a centre beause the other options sucked (until the Halpern Signing) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeLassister Posted March 24, 2013 Share Posted March 24, 2013 Big difference between this year and 2008. Subban > Hamrlik yeah. Emelin > Komisarik Hell no. Komisarek 2008 WAAAY better than Emelin Gorges 13 > Gorges 08 True Pleks 13 > Pleks 08 True MaxPac > AK46 Definitely true Galy > SK74 In the future yes, but right now, about the same impact Gallegher > Lats True Gionta > Higgins True Prust > Laps True Ryder 13> Ryder 08 Not sure at all Tinordi > O'byrne Even White > Begin (some may disagree) I do Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hab29RETIRED Posted March 24, 2013 Share Posted March 24, 2013 Big difference between this year and 2008. Subban > Hamrlik yeah. Emelin > Komisarik Hell no. Komisarek 2008 WAAAY better than Emelin Gorges 13 > Gorges 08 True Pleks 13 > Pleks 08 True MaxPac > AK46 Definitely true Galy > SK74 In the future yes, but right now, about the same impact Gallegher > Lats True Gionta > Higgins True Prust > Laps True Ryder 13> Ryder 08 Not sure at all Tinordi > O'byrne Even White > Begin (some may disagree) I do Markov carried Komi, just like he carried Souray before him. Defensively, I think Emelin is much sounder then Komi. Emelin doesn't lose his effectiveness if he isn't paired favourably. Komi's effectiveness was dependent on playing with Markov. I also think Tinordi is ahead of wear O'Byrne was. Begin was more of a fireplug, but I like White's physicality and ability when he drop the mitts better then Begin. Begin was willing, but usually took a pounding. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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