TurdBurglar Posted March 1 Share Posted March 1 59 minutes ago, GHT120 said: You think VAN would have to add something of value along with Pettersson? It would be an elite center for a top line center and a young top-4 defenseman with top pair/elite potential. If Guhle wasn't an NHL mainstay, I would say it's about fair. A 22 year old current top-4 defenseman with 100 games of experience has significant value. Most defensemen are in they're mid 20's to be as far along in development. Guhle's current development certainly has him in the top pair/elite category, whether he reaches it or not is a different story. If he were put on Vancouver today, he most likely would be on the 2nd pair, even with how good Vancouver is. As much as I hate advanced stats, jfresh has him at 94% for even strength defense this season, so take that with a grain of salt. I'm not saying Vancouver would have to throw the kitchen sink at the trade, but I do believe in that scenario they would have to add something else. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commandant Posted March 1 Share Posted March 1 Assuming Pettersson would sign in Montreal you trade caufield and guhle and run away laughing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GHT120 Posted March 1 Share Posted March 1 5 minutes ago, Commandant said: Assuming Pettersson would sign in Montreal you trade caufield and guhle and run away laughing. Before Allvin can take it back. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Habs Fan in Edmonton Posted March 1 Share Posted March 1 Sam Pollock would say the team that gets the best player wins the trade. That might not apply all the time but it would in this case. Elite 25 year old centers don't come along every day. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Chicoutimi Cucumber Posted March 1 Share Posted March 1 20 minutes ago, Commandant said: Assuming Pettersson would sign in Montreal you trade caufield and guhle and run away laughing. Agree, although I'd try to barter them down to Wifi, LOL. More likely they insist on Suzuki plus. I don't quite get this turn in the thread, though. Yes, Friedman (an impeccable source) has reported that the Canes but a VERY serious offer on the table for Petterson. But the Canucks leveraged the threat of accepting that offer to force Pettersson back o negotiations. That means, in effect, that Pettersson has conceded that he wants to stay in Vancouver, and accepts that he will need to negotiate during the season, which he was loath to do. The general media chatter here in Van is that it is now a question of WHEN, not if, Petey signs - and for how much term. (12 million per seems to be the agreed-upon number). All told, then, it is much less likely that we can prise him away from Vancouver than it was three or four days ago. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Habs Fan in Edmonton Posted March 2 Share Posted March 2 8 minutes ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said: All told, then, it is much less likely that we can prise him away from Vancouver than it was three or four days ago. I agree but it's nice to dream a bit since the Habs won't be in the playoffs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hab29RETIRED Posted March 2 Share Posted March 2 8 hours ago, TurdBurglar said: Sounds like Vancouver is entertaining the idea of trading Pettersson as extension talks have stalled. They still hope they can resign him. The rumors have it, IF they do in fact trade him, they will be looking to bring in players with term. If he is in fact being traded, wouldn't offering Suzuki+ for Pettersson be a good idea? He's an upgrade offensively, Suzuki is having a career year, and Pettersson's value isn't has high as it should be because of the need to trade him. Vancouver will be looking for a replacement at center, and probably more. I don't see a scenario where it would happen without Caufield/Suzuki going the other way, with emphasis on replacing Pettersson at center. I have no idea the the + would entail. Just tossing out the idea here. Patersson is not signed. I’m not giving up Suzuki for guy that is a RFA for 1 more yr before being a UFA, and you have to sign, and are unsure how much that would be. $10m, $11m, $12m, $13m? He wants to win now. Why would he sign with us? like the player, don’t see him wanting to be here to take that type of risk. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commandant Posted March 2 Share Posted March 2 2 hours ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said: Agree, although I'd try to barter them down to Wifi, LOL. More likely they insist on Suzuki plus. I don't quite get this turn in the thread, though. Yes, Friedman (an impeccable source) has reported that the Canes but a VERY serious offer on the table for Petterson. But the Canucks leveraged the threat of accepting that offer to force Pettersson back o negotiations. That means, in effect, that Pettersson has conceded that he wants to stay in Vancouver, and accepts that he will need to negotiate during the season, which he was loath to do. The general media chatter here in Van is that it is now a question of WHEN, not if, Petey signs - and for how much term. (12 million per seems to be the agreed-upon number). All told, then, it is much less likely that we can prise him away from Vancouver than it was three or four days ago. I agree completely. Was just pointing out the value of an elite centre. That said we might have one already. Suzuki now sits 10th in the NHL for points by centres (12th on NHL.com but Reinhart and Barzal are playing wing this year no matter what NHL.com lists them as). Meanwhile Paul Maurice said yesterday that he was impressed with Suzuki and said he plays a two way game like Barkov. Could be just the opposing coach praising a guy, but I think people are starting to notice that his defensive game is getting to Selke quality. Barkov is already acknowledged in that tier. So we may have a true franchise level centre on our hands. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Habs Fan in Edmonton Posted March 2 Share Posted March 2 1 minute ago, Commandant said: So we may have a true franchise level centre on our hands. And he is locked in at a very affordable contract for a number of years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Helmethead Posted March 2 Share Posted March 2 Call me crazy but I wouldn’t trade Suzuki for Petterssen. Maybe if their contracts were at par but not otherwise. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commandant Posted March 2 Share Posted March 2 Pettersson seems next level though Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TurdBurglar Posted March 2 Share Posted March 2 3 hours ago, hab29RETIRED said: Patersson is not signed. I’m not giving up Suzuki for guy that is a RFA for 1 more yr before being a UFA, and you have to sign, and are unsure how much that would be. $10m, $11m, $12m, $13m? I didn't think it needed to be stated that it would come with a pre-negotaited contract extension, as almost every other trade of this sort, but that's on me for not explicitly stating that. Rumor is he is at $11.5m AAV for an undisclosed amount of year right now. I would safely bet he will settle around the $11m AAV mark. 3 hours ago, Commandant said: That said we might have one already. So we may have a true franchise level centre on our hands. Suzuki hasn't had a PPG season his entire career(0.78 PPG), possibly this will be his first. At 24 years old, there is nothing to indicate Suzuki is elite level, let alone a franchise center. He's no doubt a good top line or great send line center, which his career numbers clearly indicate. That comment is something you would jump over if someone else said it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alfredoh2009 Posted March 2 Share Posted March 2 Looking at the standing and reading about the NYI, I was wondering if a trade like this may work: To NYI: Armia ($3.4M/2025) and Kovacevic ($0.76) or Harris ($1.4M/2025)= $4.167M or $4.8M/2025 To MTL: Palmieri ($5.0M/2025 if MTL in trade list) 2024 1st round pick MTL gets a 1st round pick , for taking on Palmieri on the last year + this season. The Habs free a spot in the bottom pair, for a prospect next season. They also clear Armia and make room for Roy, RHP or even Ylonen. NYI gets a bit of cap relief, gets a strong defensive forward that seems to have found some scoring after what I think were concussion symptoms or some off-ice stuff (my speculation). Armia is a good PK forward and he has an excellent wrist shot that he uses far too little. He would fit well on the 3rd line for them. In this article (and others) it is mentioned that under Roy, NYI has better defended Sorokin and are lacking goals scoring. An Armia would insulate some of the young forwards they are trying to get going (Holstrom, Gauthier in the AHL, Wahlstrom) without dismantling too much their current line-up. https://theathletic.com/5274990/2024/02/14/new-york-islanders-patrick-roy/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commandant Posted March 2 Share Posted March 2 7 hours ago, TurdBurglar said: I didn't think it needed to be stated that it would come with a pre-negotaited contract extension, as almost every other trade of this sort, but that's on me for not explicitly stating that. Rumor is he is at $11.5m AAV for an undisclosed amount of year right now. I would safely bet he will settle around the $11m AAV mark. Suzuki hasn't had a PPG season his entire career(0.78 PPG), possibly this will be his first. At 24 years old, there is nothing to indicate Suzuki is elite level, let alone a franchise center. He's no doubt a good top line or great send line center, which his career numbers clearly indicate. That comment is something you would jump over if someone else said it. I defended my point and its based not just on offence but his analytics that show selke level defence Hes grown every year He also scored 66 points while spending half the season with Harvey-pinard, Armia, and others rotating on his wings at age 23. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commandant Posted March 2 Share Posted March 2 The islanders arent trading their first round pick to get a bit of cap relief (not even that much since they take armia in this) and a bottom pair defenceman, at the end of the season when they are missing the playoffs. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Chicoutimi Cucumber Posted March 2 Share Posted March 2 11 hours ago, Commandant said: Pettersson seems next level though I think Montreal fans have sort of forgotten what a truly elite-level offensive talent looks like. I saw the same sort of thing in Vancouver regarding Quinn Hughes…the fans here have never seen a truly elite defenceman before, and quite a few of them failed to appreciate exactly what they had in Hughes for quite a while. By contrast, the minute I saw him, I knew he was the real deal…but then again I’ve seen Markov, Subban, and Weber on the regular. Pettersson is an elite, top-end offensive talent. Suzuki clearly isn’t that yet, at least not yet. He may become arguably a better “overall” player in the sense of combining very good offensive chops with elite two-way acumen (although I really think this board is downplaying Pettersson’s defensive game). But I doubt he is ever going to be in the conversation with Pettersson when it comes to being an offensive dynamo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prime Minister Koivu Posted March 2 Share Posted March 2 8 minutes ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said: I think Montreal fans have sort of forgotten what a truly elite-level offensive talent looks like. I saw the same sort of thing in Vancouver regarding Quinn Hughes…the fans here have never seen a truly elite defenceman before, and quite a few of them failed to appreciate exactly what they had in Hughes for quite a while. By contrast, the minute I saw him, I knew he was the real deal…but then again I’ve seen Markov, Subban, and Weber on the regular. Pettersson is an elite, top-end offensive talent. Suzuki clearly isn’t that yet, at least not yet. He may become arguably a better “overall” player in the sense of combining very good offensive chops with elite two-way acumen (although I really think this board is downplaying Pettersson’s defensive game). But I doubt he is ever going to be in the conversation with Pettersson when it comes to being an offensive dynamo. I agree with the spirit of your post but I wonder just how much better is Petterson ? If Petersson is pegged as a 100 point guy and Suzuki hits 90 points, is that really that big of a difference? Lets see what Suzuki can do with an entire season having two good wingers and a decent PP unit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hab29RETIRED Posted March 2 Share Posted March 2 12 minutes ago, Prime Minister Koivu said: I agree with the spirit of your post but I wonder just how much better is Petterson ? If Petersson is pegged as a 100 point guy and Suzuki hits 90 points, is that really that big of a difference? Let’s see what Suzuki can do with an entire season having two good wingers and a decent PP unit. Patterson is a guy that can take over a game. I’d say his a notch below McDavid and McKinnon. It say Suzuki is two below Pattersson. Nothing wrong with that though - Suzuk is the best centre we’ve had since Koivu. If Dach can be the 1a or 1b with Suzuki we should be good at centre with Beck hopefully as a solid #3. That’s the best we’ve been at the position since the unholy trio of Corey-Tremblay-Houle turned us into the geiggon Harrold Ballard leafs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sbhatt Posted March 2 Share Posted March 2 Pettersson signed:https://www.espn.com/nhl/story/_/id/39638084/canucks-sign-elias-pettersson-eight-year-928m-extension Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Habs Fan in Edmonton Posted March 2 Share Posted March 2 27 minutes ago, Prime Minister Koivu said: I agree with the spirit of your post but I wonder just how much better is Petterson ? If Petersson is pegged as a 100 point guy and Suzuki hits 90 points, is that really that big of a difference? Lets see what Suzuki can do with an entire season having two good wingers and a decent PP unit. Fair point, I think most here would agree that Petterson purely from an offensive point of view is a step above Nick. I am not sure Nick will hit 90 pts but I would be very happy with 80. You could have the discussion in this salary cap world of whether you would rather have Nick at 7.8m/year or Pettersson at 11.6? Considering Nick's strong 2 way play I could see arguments on both sides although in that big Stanley Cup playoff final having that truly elite offensive player is nice to have although neither McDavid or Matthews have carried a cup yet. Glad Pettersson has signed in Vancouver and this argument is a little moot now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Chicoutimi Cucumber Posted March 2 Share Posted March 2 16 minutes ago, hab29RETIRED said: Patterson is a guy that can take over a game. I’d say his a notch below McDavid and McKinnon. It say Suzuki is two below Pattersson. Nothing wrong with that though - Suzuk is the best centre we’ve had since Koivu. If Dach can be the 1a or 1b with Suzuki we should be good at centre with Beck hopefully as a solid #3. That’s the best we’ve been at the position since the unholy trio of Corey-Tremblay-Houle turned us into the geiggon Harrold Ballard leafs. I don’t know what “geiggon” means, but I agree with that ranking (McDavid > Pettersson > Suzuki) and that overall assessment. Hard to believe that we once had Koivu, Turgeon, and Damphousse down the middle and managed to trade away the latter two on discounts, without having adequate replacements in mind. Good ol’ Reggie 🙄 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prime Minister Koivu Posted March 2 Share Posted March 2 15 minutes ago, hab29RETIRED said: Patterson is a guy that can take over a game. I’d say his a notch below McDavid and McKinnon. It say Suzuki is two below Pattersson. Nothing wrong with that though - Suzuk is the best centre we’ve had since Koivu. If Dach can be the 1a or 1b with Suzuki we should be good at centre with Beck hopefully as a solid #3. That’s the best we’ve been at the position since the unholy trio of Corey-Tremblay-Houle turned us into the geiggon Harrold Ballard leafs. I am certainly no Petersson (damned autocorrect) expert. I was just looking at the point stats and Pettersson looks like a 100 point guy and is on pace for about the same this year. Maybe Pettersson is a 120 point guy I don’t know. But if he is 100 point guy and Suzuki tops out at 90 next season then is that 10 points really that much more? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hab29RETIRED Posted March 2 Share Posted March 2 9 minutes ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said: I don’t know what “geiggon” means, but I agree with that ranking (McDavid > Pettersson > Suzuki) and that overall assessment. Hard to believe that we once had Koivu, Turgeon, and Damphousse down the middle and managed to trade away the latter two on discounts, without having adequate replacements in mind. Good ol’ Reggie 🙄 Apple “auto-correct” for friggin. Reggie was put in a job that was over his head. That decision was Corey. Tremblay though is the ass wipe who chased Roy and Turgeon out of town. If it was up to me, Neither of those two, or MB/MT should be allowed in the bell centre. four guys who out their egos above the team. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hab29RETIRED Posted March 2 Share Posted March 2 10 minutes ago, Prime Minister Koivu said: I am certainly no Petersson (damned autocorrect) expert. I was just looking at the point stats and Pettersson looks like a 100 point guy and is on pace for about the same this year. Maybe Pettersson is a 120 point guy I don’t know. But if he is 100 point guy and Suzuki tops out at 90 next season then is that 10 points really that much more? IMO it’s not the point difference as much as an ability to take over a game. There were some season in the 80’s, Bernie Federko had more points than Trottier, but who would you rather have? Bossy typically only had 10-15 more points than Federko. But he was much more of a game breaker than Federko ever was. There’s a difference between a guy who will get his points and a guy who can win it on his own. Pattersson is among the latter. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prime Minister Koivu Posted March 2 Share Posted March 2 9 minutes ago, hab29RETIRED said: IMO it’s not the point difference as much as an ability to take over a game. There were some season in the 80’s, Bernie Federko had more points than Trottier, but who would you rather have? Bossy typically only had 10-15 more points than Federko. But he was much more of a game breaker than Federko ever was. There’s a difference between a guy who will get his points and a guy who can win it on his own. Pattersson is among the latter. Great explanation Hab29. I would say then alongside with points, Suzuki brings a stronger all around game but I agree that Suzuki isn’t a game breaker in the same way Pettersson is. Let’s revisit this conversation in a couple more years. Suzuki continues to grow every season, including this one so we haven’t seen his ceiling yet. I imagine a full season with Slafkovsky taking a step and Caufield rebounding with a perfect shoulder and a competent PP unit…Let’s see what Suzuki has got left in him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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