Permanent Trade Proposal Thread

[dlbalr]

13 minutes ago, tomh009 said:

Adding a player that is already on LTIR doesn't create any cap space. It essentially only allows you to exceed the cap by the amount of that player's contract: essentially, your remaining space is the same, only now without flexibility.

 

Exactly.  Vancouver has no reason to do that deal.

[hab29RETIRED]

33 minutes ago, Habsfan89 said:

A trade that could be good for both teams would be us and  Vancouver. They're a bubble team that wants to make the playoffs but have little cap space we have Weber's contract that would help them. 

 

Vancouver picks 15th how about this trade 

 

Vancouver get

Calgary's 1st round pick and Weber's LTIR which would give Vancouver $7.8mil in cap space 

 

Habs get

Vancouver's 1st round pick 15th overall 

 

Think it works out good for both teams. 

Vancouver gets zero benefit with that trade. In fact it puts them in a worse position by limiting flexibility:

the only ways a player on LTIR benefits a team is if:

1) allows the team already stuck with an injured player, can add someone else to replace that player

2) they add another player, and the injured player comes back in time to play in the playoffs, when there is no cap.

 

Vancouver cant benefit in either of these ways, and would be stuck with less flexibility, and still needs to move salary out. 

[Commandant]

While we can debate how much, Montreal is going to be the one giving something up to another team to take Weber.  Weber's contract is a negative asset, not one that lets us move up 10 spots in the draft. 

[alfredoh2009]

but we were so clever...

 

[REV-G]

This is what I have read recently about Pierre-Luc Dubois.

 

Winnipeg seems not to be very urgent in resigning him right now.

He is not happy with the defence first system the Jets use. 

There is a possibility Winnipeg would be willing to move him.

He would thrive in Marty St. Louis's offensive, creative system he has put in place.

 

I wonder if those statements have much truth or accuracy to them?

 

If they do, and If Montreal does draft Shane Wright, adding PLD to our mix means we'd have in whatever order....Suzuki, PLD and Shane Wright down the middle would probably give us the strongest centers we've had for many years. 

 

If there is any possibility Winnipeg would consider trading PLD would Calgary's first we have this year, a second and a defensive propect be enough to get him?

What do you think it would take?

 

 

[alfredoh2009]

5 minutes ago, REV-G said:

This is what I have read recently about Pierre-Luc Dubois.

 

Winnipeg seems not to be very urgent in resigning him right now.

He is not happy with the defence first system the Jets use. 

There is a possibility Winnipeg would be willing to move him.

He would thrive in Marty St. Louis's offensive, creative system he has put in place.

 

I wonder if those statements have much truth or accuracy to them?

 

If they do, and If Montreal does draft Shane Wright, adding PLD to our mix means we'd have in whatever order....Suzuki, PLD and Shane Wright down the middle would probably give us the strongest centers we've had for many years. 

 

If there is any possibility Winnipeg would consider trading PLD would Calgary's first we have this year, a second and a defensive propect be enough to get him?

What do you think it would take?

 

 

 

PLD is a very good centre, but he is not elite. Habs need another elite forward: tanking next season and picking in top-10

[Commandant]

37 minutes ago, REV-G said:

This is what I have read recently about Pierre-Luc Dubois.

 

Winnipeg seems not to be very urgent in resigning him right now.

He is not happy with the defence first system the Jets use. 

There is a possibility Winnipeg would be willing to move him.

He would thrive in Marty St. Louis's offensive, creative system he has put in place.

 

I wonder if those statements have much truth or accuracy to them?

 

If they do, and If Montreal does draft Shane Wright, adding PLD to our mix means we'd have in whatever order....Suzuki, PLD and Shane Wright down the middle would probably give us the strongest centers we've had for many years. 

 

If there is any possibility Winnipeg would consider trading PLD would Calgary's first we have this year, a second and a defensive propect be enough to get him?

What do you think it would take?

 

 

 

Given that Scheifele may be getting traded this summer, I think it reduces the chances they trade PLD and makes it more urgent that they sign hm.

 

As for the system the Jets use, it is the furthest thing possible from a defence first system.  The Jets forwards have less defensive responsibility than any other team in the NHL and the fact their forwards don't support the defence was the biggest reason they missed the playoffs.  Expect their next coach to put in far more structure than Maurice/Lowry ever did. 

[Prime Minister Koivu]

27 minutes ago, Commandant said:

 

Expect their next coach to put in far more structure than Maurice/Lowry ever did. 

Sounds like a match made in heaven for Ducharme. 

[alfredoh2009]

7 minutes ago, Prime Minister Koivu said:

Sounds like a match made in heaven for Ducharme. 

 

Julien maybe, Ducharme was not a defense first coach

[Prime Minister Koivu]

1 hour ago, alfredoh2009 said:

 

Julien maybe, Ducharme was not a defense first coach

He is the most system oriented coach in the history of hockey. 

[alfredoh2009]

5 minutes ago, Prime Minister Koivu said:

He is the most system oriented coach in the history of hockey. 

Lemaire?

[The Chicoutimi Cucumber]

PLD is one year older than Suzuki. He'd be a welcome addition to the rebuild IMHO. The problem is, of course, the return. Presumably WPG wants young players/prospects/picks back. That rather diminishes the logic of a trade from the Habs' point of view.

[Commandant]

23 minutes ago, Prime Minister Koivu said:

He is the most system oriented coach in the history of hockey. 

 

Tell that to his players who didnt understand the system.

[Commandant]

I fully expect Trotz in Winnipeg.

[GHT120]

1 hour ago, Commandant said:

I fully expect Trotz in Winnipeg.

 

 

It would be a very "green" hire ... as is too often the norm for the NHL

[Commandant]

1 hour ago, GHT120 said:

 

 

It would be a very "green" hire ... as is too often the norm for the NHL

 

I'm all for saying the NHL needs new blood, but Trotz isn't one of the coaches who needs to be run out of the league to make it happen.  He is one of the NHL's best coaches and he didn't even deserve to be fired. 

[alfredoh2009]

Here is an idea:

 

To VGK:

Petry ($6.25M until 2025) + Byron ($3.4M until 2023) = $9.65M cap hit

 

To MTL:

Dadonov($5M until 2023) + Martinez ($5M until 2024) + Patrick ($1.2M until 2023) = 11.2M cap hit

 

Petry gives them a RHD that can play on their second pair. He would thrive with the talented lineup VGK has, like h has shined in Montreal. Byron can fit in their bottom-6 and at worst he may be on their LTIR or flipped at the trade deadline. If Byron is healthy, he would be great for VGK.

 

Montreal gets rid of Petry's contract, gets a veteran LD that can play in the top-4 while the Habs prospects develop. Dadonov can be flipped at the trade deadline and until then can play with Suzuki and Caufield. If I am not mistaken, Dadonov is a touch better than Hoffman. Patrick can be buried in the AHL.

 

=====================

In addition, Weber's contract could be moved to Vegas. It would give the VGK some LTIR over-cap space to be able to resign their captain Reilly Smith. Weber's LTIR keeps their window open.

 

 

[dlbalr]

5 hours ago, REV-G said:

If there is any possibility Winnipeg would consider trading PLD would Calgary's first we have this year, a second and a defensive propect be enough to get him?

What do you think it would take?

 

We're what, roughly 18 months from them trading Laine and Roslovic for him?  To turn around and deal him for a quantity over quality trade wouldn't make any sense for them.  He's a top-six centre under team control for at least two more years.  The return for him will hurt. 

 

Also, let's assume the Habs take Wright.  He's under team control for seven years, Suzuki for eight.  If Wright pans out and becomes at least a top-six C, then Montreal would be deploying Dubois as a 3C while paying him closer to 1C money (his next deal will probably be close to Suzuki's).  While that's a nice-looking centre group, can they afford that long-term?

[dlbalr]

1 minute ago, alfredoh2009 said:

Here is an idea:

 

To VGK:

Petry ($6.25M until 2025) + Byron ($3.4M until 2023) = $9.65M cap hit

 

To MTL:

Dadonov($5M until 2023) + Martinez ($5M until 2024) + Patrick ($1.2M until 2023) = 11.2M cap hit

 

Petry gives them a RHD that can play on their second pair. He would thrive with the talented lineup VGK has, like h has shined in Montreal. Byron can fit in their bottom-6 and at worst he may be on their LTIR or flipped at the trade deadline. If Byron is healthy, he would be great for VGK.

 

Montreal gets rid of Petry's contract, gets a veteran LD that can play in the top-4 while the Habs prospects develop. Dadonov can be flipped at the trade deadline and until then can play with Suzuki and Caufield. IfI am not mistaken, he is a touch better than Hoffman. Patrick can be buried in the AHL.

 

=====================

In addition, Weber's contract could be moved to Vegas. It would give the VGK some LTIR over-cap space to be able to resign their captain Reilly Smith. Weber's LTIR keeps their window open.

 

I get the sense you really don't think Petry has much trade value.  Dadonov isn't worth anything, Patrick's career might be over, and Martinez adds to a logjam on LD and doesn't fill a need.  If they're trading for a defenceman in return, it needs to be a RD.  If they're basically giving Petry away, they may as well keep him.  There is no need to sell low.

 

Weber's contract is of no value to Vegas.  Adding him does not allow them to re-sign Smith and would lock them into LTIR for four more years, a position no team wants to be in.  There was a reason that they targeted an expiring LTIR deal and it fit for them within a specific situation that is uncommon.  Weber's contract isn't an asset to them, it's an anchor.

[alfredoh2009]

1 minute ago, dlbalr said:

 

I get the sense you really don't think Petry has much trade value.  Dadonov isn't worth anything, Patrick's career might be over, and Martinez adds to a logjam on LD and doesn't fill a need.  If they're trading for a defenceman in return, it needs to be a RD.  If they're basically giving Petry away, they may as well keep him.  There is no need to sell low.

 

Weber's contract is of no value to Vegas.  Adding him does not allow them to re-sign Smith and would lock them into LTIR for four more years, a position no team wants to be in.  There was a reason that they targeted an expiring LTIR deal and it fit for them within a specific situation that is uncommon.  Weber's contract isn't an asset to them, it's an anchor.

 

Actually, I thought Petry would add value to VGK. And I was looking for a LW for Suzuki and Caufield, I thought Dadonov may be a better option.

I just went through the available UFA LWs and I was also looking at teams in a cup window

 

I didn't think I was giving Petry away, not at all.

 

Some commentators mentioned Palat as a good UFA fit for Suzuki and Caufield. I was looking for other alternatives

 

 

[dlbalr]

2 minutes ago, alfredoh2009 said:

 

Actually, I thought Petry would add value to VGK. And I was looking for a LW for Suzuki and Caufield, I thought Dadonov may be a better option.

I just went through the available UFA LWs and I was also looking at teams in a cup window

 

I didn't think I was giving Petry away, not at all.

 

Some commentators mentioned Palat as a good UFA fit for Suzuki and Caufield. I was looking for other alternatives

 

 

Two of the three players you had coming back are in negative value territory (Dadonov and Patrick).  Martinez is fine but Petry's better so why not aim higher than that in a trade?

 

I've never been a big Nick Paul guy - I find he's a bit overrated relative to his limited offensive production.  32 points when you play almost every game and log over 16 minutes a night isn't anything special and he turned down $2.5M on a multi-year deal before the deadline.  He's a decent player but a supporting cast piece that's looking to be paid for a bigger role than that.

 

Mikheyev fits the model of size and speed and could be a fit depending on what other wingers get moved out of Montreal but he's going to be looking at something in the mid-$3M range.

[alfredoh2009]

2 minutes ago, dlbalr said:

 

Two of the three players you had coming back are in negative value territory (Dadonov and Patrick).  Martinez is fine but Petry's better so why not aim higher than that in a trade?

 

I've never been a big Nick Paul guy - I find he's a bit overrated relative to his limited offensive production.  32 points when you play almost every game and log over 16 minutes a night isn't anything special and he turned down $2.5M on a multi-year deal before the deadline.  He's a decent player but a supporting cast piece that's looking to be paid for a bigger role than that.

 

Mikheyev fits the model of size and speed and could be a fit depending on what other wingers get moved out of Montreal but he's going to be looking at something in the mid-$3M range.

 

yeah, the list I share (filtered out over 29 year olds) doen;t show much. I was looking at options less expensive than Armia.

 

The model is a left-handed Anderson. I was just having fun looking through the other team's rosters, Cap Friendly and Evolving Hockey.

 

It always surprises me how strongly some react to a proposal where I am just asking to see what others think, for the fun of discussing what-ifs

 

Oh, well.

 

Back to being bored, I guess...

[Habs Fan in Edmonton]

1 hour ago, alfredoh2009 said:

It always surprises me how strongly some react to a proposal where I am just asking to see what others think, for the fun of discussing what-ifs

 

Oh, well.

 

Back to being bored, I guess...

 

I am assuming that when you propose a trade that you are looking for feedback?

 

It's not always easy to find a trade that's a win-win for both teams especially in this era of the salary cap. 

[dlbalr]

2 hours ago, alfredoh2009 said:

It always surprises me how strongly some react to a proposal where I am just asking to see what others think, for the fun of discussing what-ifs

 

Oh, well.

 

Back to being bored, I guess...

 

I hardly think I reacted strongly to your idea here.  I just don't see where this Petry offer makes any sense.  It doesn't make the team better, doesn't save money, and doesn't bring any young assets/picks back (Patrick's playing future is in serious question so he doesn't check that box).  If it doesn't hit on any of those, I'm not quite sure what the purpose of the trade is.  That's not me going hard on you, that's just how I evaluate a trade.

[alfredoh2009]

15 hours ago, dlbalr said:

 

I hardly think I reacted strongly to your idea here.  I just don't see where this Petry offer makes any sense.  It doesn't make the team better, doesn't save money, and doesn't bring any young assets/picks back (Patrick's playing future is in serious question so he doesn't check that box).  If it doesn't hit on any of those, I'm not quite sure what the purpose of the trade is.  That's not me going hard on you, that's just how I evaluate a trade.

not you, I am getting gunned down on another thread

I always appreciate your feedback. I learn so much from you.