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Permanent Trade Proposal Thread


dlbalr
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9 minutes ago, dlbalr said:

 

Seattle is getting a lesser forward and drops a ton in the draft with only getting Mailloux and a 3rd in return.  They need core pieces to build their franchises around, not a collection of lesser assets.

 

 

Chicago basically tried to give Kubalik away at the trade deadline because of his qualifying offer and didn't have any interest.  Because of their cap situation, the expectation is that they will non-tender him and let him walk for free this summer unless they can agree on a contract that's considerably below his qualifying offer.  The Blackhawks need to free up cap space for Jones' extension so Hoffman isn't the type of player they'd want to add.  I'm pretty sure that in a scenario like this, Montreal would non-tender Kubalik as well, essentially paying the 2nd to avoid a buyout of Hoffman.  Kubalik has struggled considerably the last two years and it looks like his strong rookie season was a bit of a mirage.

 

 

Columbus has plenty of cap space so the savings are irrelevant to them on that front (and the Habs need to free up money themselves, not add).  What's better for them, a potential top-pairing defenceman or a series of lesser assets, two of which have seen their value drop lately (Norlinder/Drouin)?  If Nemec is still on the board in this scenario, they'd benefit a whole lot more from taking him over the pieces from the Habs.  They're trying to rebuild a strong young nucleus so they will value quality over quantity.

 

If the shoe was on the other foot, what would you do?  If the Habs had a pick at the back of the top-10 and a potential top piece fell to them, would you rather they took the potential top player or a quantity for quality deal?

 

I see the holes in my trade proposals, I could not think of anything better which makes me think that there is very little chance the Habs get to pick twice in the top 10.

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6 minutes ago, alfredoh2009 said:

I see the holes in my trade proposals, I could not think of anything better which makes me think that there is very little chance the Habs get to pick twice in the top 10.

 

Same here.  I'd peg it basically at a 0% chance.  I could see them trying to move up from wherever Calgary's pick lands but that's probably no higher than the 18-23 range when all is said and done.

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1 minute ago, dlbalr said:

 

Same here.  I'd peg it basically at a 0% chance.  I could see them trying to move up from wherever Calgary's pick lands but that's probably no higher than the 18-23 range when all is said and done.

 

Some media was commenting on how Gorton has moved up in the draft in the past as a difference with Bergevin's way-of-working where he would drop down for more picks

 

I had to take a look for myself to see if there was a fire under that smoke or just smoke and mirrors (click-bait)

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He could still move up (from 25 or so, wherever the Calgary pick lands) but likely not to top 10.

 

Maybe something in the 15-20 range is possible. But that might be a last-minute move if they see someone still being available that they are particularly keen on.

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59 minutes ago, alfredoh2009 said:

 

I see the holes in my trade proposals, I could not think of anything better which makes me think that there is very little chance the Habs get to pick twice in the top 10.

 

Teams rarely trade a top 10 pick, but fun to discuss, as mentioned by others the opportunity to move up to the 15-20 slot is much more likely if there is someone there they really want. 

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1 hour ago, tomh009 said:

He could still move up (from 25 or so, wherever the Calgary pick lands) but likely not to top 10.

 

Maybe something in the 15-20 range is possible. But that might be a last-minute move if they see someone still being available that they are particularly keen on.

Guess 28th (say it is) will be Flames slot once lose to McDavid...even if trade pick #33 with it, not sure would climb many spots in 1st round?

Maybe 4 spots? 28th to 24th?

If trade Flames + Oilers 2nd round pick and maybe climb 1 or 2 spots?

 

Does that seem about right?

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I would call up Nashville and offer them this trade 

 

To Nashville 

Hoffman 

 

To habs 

2023 1st round pick 

 

Hoffman is on a cap friendly contract and locked up for 2 years. They could lose Forsberg to free agency, so having Hoffman would lesson the blow. Plus if they can resign Forsberg adding Hoffman would be a big plus for them.

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32 minutes ago, Habsfan89 said:

I would call up Nashville and offer them this trade 

 

To Nashville 

Hoffman 

 

To habs 

2023 1st round pick 

 

Hoffman is on a cap friendly contract and locked up for 2 years. They could lose Forsberg to free agency, so having Hoffman would lesson the blow. Plus if they can resign Forsberg adding Hoffman would be a big plus for them.

Any GM who even thinks about giving up a 1st round pick should be fired.

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18 minutes ago, hab29RETIRED said:

Any GM who even thinks about giving up a 1st round pick should be fired.

Especially for Hoffman ... he showed this season he was as/more often a big plus for the opposition as the Habs.

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55 minutes ago, Habsfan89 said:

I would call up Nashville and offer them this trade 

 

To Nashville 

Hoffman 

 

To habs 

2023 1st round pick 

 

Hoffman is on a cap friendly contract and locked up for 2 years. They could lose Forsberg to free agency, so having Hoffman would lesson the blow. Plus if they can resign Forsberg adding Hoffman would be a big plus for them.

 

This might be the worst trade proposal in the history of this board. 

 

After the season Hoffman had, we will have to give up a pick to get someone to take his contract.  He's not getting a first round pick. 

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Best luck is Hoffman has good first 3/4 season, then worth bit more at trade deadline, if can off-load him then.

 

I dont think Habs want to pay too much just to be rid of him, do they?

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1 minute ago, DON said:

Best luck is Hoffman has good first 3/4 season, then worth bit more at trade deadline, if can off-load him then.

 

I dont think Habs want to pay too much just to be rid of him, do they?

 

I think you're right on both counts.  I don't sense he's an ideal fit but he needs to play his way into some salvageable value.  While Montreal needs to clear cap space, I suspect they'd rather not part with an asset or two to do so unless an opportunity to add someone falls into their laps that they simply have to take.

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40 minutes ago, dlbalr said:

 

I think you're right on both counts.  I don't sense he's an ideal fit but he needs to play his way into some salvageable value.  While Montreal needs to clear cap space, I suspect they'd rather not part with an asset or two to do so unless an opportunity to add someone falls into their laps that they simply have to take.

 

Hoffman's contract is the lesser of my concerns regarding contracts on the Habs. Only 2 years left, by the time they are a contender his contract will be gone.  He might be attractive to a contending team but as you say he will have to play his way into obtaining some value. 

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7 hours ago, DON said:

Guess 28th (say it is) will be Flames slot once lose to McDavid...even if trade pick #33 with it, not sure would climb many spots in 1st round?

Maybe 4 spots? 28th to 24th?

If trade Flames + Oilers 2nd round pick and maybe climb 1 or 2 spots?

 

Does that seem about right?

 

I do think that if they traded their own 2nd round pick then they could likely move up more than 4 spots as that is almost a 1st round pick, likely only a couple spots with the Oilers pick.

 

 If the Oilers take out the Flames then they would likely draft 27th as Florida would move to the 28th spot. If the Rangers take out Carolina then it could move to 26 if I am reading the formula right.  I am assuming Colorado takes out St. Louis. 

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11 hours ago, Habs Fan in Edmonton said:

 

I do think that if they traded their own 2nd round pick then they could likely move up more than 4 spots as that is almost a 1st round pick, likely only a couple spots with the Oilers pick.

I wonder if (am sure there is) somehwere you can see how trading up in draft played out overall in first couple rounds...i get the impression that it doesnt, more often than not.

Based on vague memory looking at the deals before (somewhat recent Hab ones: Didier, Lernout, Harris, Norlinder...couldnt ever guess if Bergy had d-man love) . 

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On 5/24/2022 at 12:13 PM, DON said:

Then why even mention an unrealistic scenario? Or you just dont think any pain is required to make significant deal?

Isnt much of that offer NJ would consider,..again not that mine suggestion is great, but seems like one NJ would accept, acceptable loss to Habs long term and i would risk the whole picking #1 again.

 

But, we know it aint happening and just a thought. 

I mentioned it for the same reason that you offered up a scenario that will never happen. Your proposal  involved what I consider a massive overpay and also removed the possibility of us being in contention for Connor Bedard --a firing offense for a management team in HUGORTs position, IMHO) My proposal offered the opposite, an underpay that might tempt a desperate GM. Like you, I was hoping to stimulate a discussion. I wanted it to focus on how the Canadiens might acquire the number 2 pick without settling back their rebuild. 

 

  

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12 hours ago, Habs Fan in Edmonton said:

 

Hoffman's contract is the lesser of my concerns regarding contracts on the Habs. Only 2 years left, by the time they are a contender his contract will be gone.  He might be attractive to a contending team but as you say he will have to play his way into obtaining some value. 

 

It’s a good point. Hoffman may be a crummy contract, but what we really need to avoid are contracts that impinge upon our projected “window” of becoming good again (i.e., 2-3 years hence). In the meantime, he does no harm, unless he blocks a roster spot for a young player, which I doubt the coaches will allow to happen.

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36 minutes ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said:

 

It’s a good point. Hoffman may be a crummy contract, but what we really need to avoid are contracts that impinge upon our projected “window” of becoming good again (i.e., 2-3 years hence). In the meantime, he does no harm, unless he blocks a roster spot for a young player, which I doubt the coaches will allow to happen.

 

That's the way I look at it.  The Gallagher, Price contracts are much bigger impediments to the team moving forward. I expect Weber to continue on LTIR unless traded. 

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3 hours ago, PMAC said:

I mentioned it for the same reason that you offered up a scenario that will never happen. Your proposal  involved what I consider a massive overpay and also removed the possibility of us being in contention for Connor Bedard   

I dont think is massive overpay and is what it might take to get #2 pick. Would it be worth the negative stuff you mention, i dont know ...but seems yours obviously, would be laughed at by NJ (no offense)...but like you say, was just spit-balling.

 

I dont think is realistic to think Habs will win the lottery again.

(We can revisit in 12months and obviously odds are highly stacked in not picking Bedard, hope i am 100% wrong.:D

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Next year, the Habs are in a similar situation they were this year and IMHO they should tank to increase their chances of picking 1st overall or at least in the top-3... IMO picking top-4 to top-10 would be a lost opportunity.

 

image.png

 

I hope Hugh-Gort trades to move some picks to next year if the picks this year are not what would make the Habs better in the long run.

I would, in their place, use the quantity in picks this year to increase the probability of picking higher next year = quality of picks over two years.

 

with that in mind I would find a trade with Ottawa, who has indicated their 1st this year may be moved, to move up this year or next. For example:

 

To MTL: OTT 2022 1st (#7) if a stud draft pick is available or Ottawa 2023 1st (unprotected, expecting top 10)

To OTT: CGY 2022 1st (late) FLA 2023 1st (late) and Poehling

 

image.png

 

 

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4 hours ago, PMAC said:

I mentioned it for the same reason that you offered up a scenario that will never happen. Your proposal  involved what I consider a massive overpay and also removed the possibility of us being in contention for Connor Bedard --a firing offense for a management team in HUGORTs position, IMHO) My proposal offered the opposite, an underpay that might tempt a desperate GM. Like you, I was hoping to stimulate a discussion. I wanted it to focus on how the Canadiens might acquire the number 2 pick without settling back their rebuild. 

 

  

Yeah. I think trading away out first pick next year should be a firing offence of any management team, considering we probably are at least a lottery contention for Conner Bedard.
 

We just friggin finished dead last and are coming of a year that is probably the worst ever in our history. There are no quick fixes. The D needs a major overhaul. A complete engine replacement. Hell, we need to go from a sputtering Gasoline 4 cylinder lads to an electrified Porsche Taycan Turbo S on the back end ideally a demon like McDavid up front. Maybe Bedard is that guy.
 

The number 2 this year will not be a path to that.

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20 minutes ago, alfredoh2009 said:

with that in mind I would find a trade with Ottawa, who has indicated their 1st this year may be moved, to move up this year or next. For example:

 

To MTL: OTT 2022 1st (#7) if a stud draft pick is available or Ottawa 2023 1st (unprotected, expecting top 10)

To OTT: CGY 2022 1st (late) FLA 2023 1st (late) and Poehling

 

image.png

 

What's in it for Ottawa?  They said if they're moving their pick, they want win-now impact talent.  They don't get that in this trade.  They get a late first rounder, an expected future late first-rounder, and a young player who is trending towards bust territory and might be a serviceable fourth liner.  They've made a bunch of picks the last few years so they're not lacking for prospect depth.  Why pass up the chance at an impact prospect for some depth guys?

 

If Montreal picks 7th next year, do you want them accepting this type of offer in a trade?  If no, you can't think Ottawa - or any other team you're hoping to find a top-10 pick with - is going to accept a quantity for quality deal.  These trades simply don't happen.  The Habs are not finding a way to add another top-10 pick this year without losing a core young asset (Suzuki, Caufield, or next year's unprotected first).  That's just the way it is.  

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4 hours ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said:

 

It’s a good point. Hoffman may be a crummy contract, but what we really need to avoid are contracts that impinge upon our projected “window” of becoming good again (i.e., 2-3 years hence). In the meantime, he does no harm, unless he blocks a roster spot for a young player, which I doubt the coaches will allow to happen.

 

Sure, but of course Hoffman isn't getting traded for a first round pick which was the point. 

 

He has a bad contract that we would have to add to in order to give it away right now (though that can change if he has a good season). 

 

That doesn't mean we should give assets to get rid of him, it may make more sense to just accept the medicine and ride out the deal. But thats a different issue (slightly different) than what he's worth right now. 

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18 minutes ago, Commandant said:

 

Sure, but of course Hoffman isn't getting traded for a first round pick which was the point. 

 

He has a bad contract that we would have to add to in order to give it away right now (though that can change if he has a good season). 

 

That doesn't mean we should give assets to get rid of him, it may make more sense to just accept the medicine and ride out the deal. But thats a different issue (slightly different) than what he's worth right now. 

 

Of course he is not getting traded for a 1st round pick,  I think with Hoffman you ride out the deal and if he gets hot then you look for an opportunity to move him, more likely to happen at the trade deadline either next year or more likely the year after. 

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1 hour ago, hab29RETIRED said:

Yeah. I think trading away out first pick next year should be a firing offence of any management team, considering we probably are at least a lottery contention for Conner Bedard.
 

We just friggin finished dead last and are coming of a year that is probably the worst ever in our history. There are no quick fixes. The D needs a major overhaul. A complete engine replacement. Hell, we need to go from a sputtering Gasoline 4 cylinder lads to an electrified Porsche Taycan Turbo S on the back end ideally a demon like McDavid up front. Maybe Bedard is that guy.
 

The number 2 this year will not be a path to that.

 

I would love to get the #2 pick this year and get Slafkovsky as I think he will be a force BUT I won't trade Suzuki or Caulfield or our own #1 pick next year so without those elements a trade is highly highly unlikely to happen. 

 

A lot of time teams say they are willing to move their pick but what they are really saying is  "yeah I will consider trading it if I get an offer that blows me away".  How often has a team traded a pick in the top 5 or 10?  Rarely is the answer I think.  I remember Burke working some magic to get both Sedins but that was a long time ago and I can't remember another instance. 

 

 

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