Habs Fan in Edmonton Posted November 12, 2022 Share Posted November 12, 2022 13 minutes ago, GHT120 said: Unless Kane ends up being out for the rest of the season, the Oilers will have to bring his full AAV back onto the cap when he returns ... True but there may be so little time left in the season that it wouldn't take too much creativity to make it work for this year. The following years may be a big problem. There is no question Edmonton and Calgary are in WIN NOW mode. Sometimes teams make bad decisions when they feel a little desperate. It's still early in the year for them but neither one is looking good right now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prime Minister Koivu Posted November 12, 2022 Share Posted November 12, 2022 22 minutes ago, GHT120 said: Unless Kane ends up being out for the rest of the season, the Oilers will have to bring his full AAV back onto the cap when he returns ... so unlikely the Oilers make a LTIR-based trade ... IMO (for what little it is worth) the NHL should consider leaving the AAV for time missed on LTIR off the cap, encouraging more creativity/trading and help contenders compensate and non-contenders rebuild/re-tool/re-stock ... BUT, it would require STRICT enforcement of LTIR. I’m a bit cynical but Tampa definitely gamed the LTIR system so I assume that Edmonton would too. Even if Kane returns in March that would only be one month of extra cap. Although I can’t be arsed to look up if Edmonton can even absorb that much. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prime Minister Koivu Posted November 12, 2022 Share Posted November 12, 2022 11 minutes ago, Habs Fan in Edmonton said: True but there may be so little time left in the season that it wouldn't take too much creativity to make it work for this year. The following years may be a big problem. There is no question Edmonton and Calgary are in WIN NOW mode. Sometimes teams make bad decisions when they feel a little desperate. It's still early in the year for them but neither one is looking good right now. Yeah Edmonton needs to make a move. They have two of the league’s best players and they are squandering them. Calgary made major moves that bind them for years. I can’t see them not swinging for the fences Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GHT120 Posted November 12, 2022 Share Posted November 12, 2022 2 minutes ago, Habs Fan in Edmonton said: True but there may be so little time left in the season that it wouldn't take too much creativity to make it work for this year. The following years may be a big problem. 2 minutes ago, Prime Minister Koivu said: ... Even if Kane returns in March that would only be one month of extra cap. Although I can’t be arsed to look up if Edmonton can even absorb that much. When Kane returns to the lineup (estimated as no later than early March) his full $5.125M must be added back onto the cap ... to be cap compliant they would have to move out AAV equal to what his replacement(s) accrued while Kane was out ... 4 months of Kane's AAV is $3M+ ... if it was easy more teams would do it ... now if Kane's estimated return extends to the end of March or officially the whole season then your scenario becomes feasible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prime Minister Koivu Posted November 12, 2022 Share Posted November 12, 2022 37 minutes ago, GHT120 said: When Kane returns to the lineup (estimated as no later than early March) his full $5.125M must be added back onto the cap ... to be cap compliant they would have to move out AAV equal to what his replacement(s) accrued while Kane was out ... 4 months of Kane's AAV is $3M+ ... if it was easy more teams would do it ... now if Kane's estimated return extends to the end of March or officially the whole season then your scenario becomes feasible. As an older fan, I haven’t kept up with the rule changes to the game but more so to the cap rules. I guess returning the full amount to the cap prevents the kind of cap screwery that I was suggesting. Oilers would need to use doctors to keep Kane from returning until playoffs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Habs Fan in Edmonton Posted November 12, 2022 Share Posted November 12, 2022 41 minutes ago, GHT120 said: When Kane returns to the lineup (estimated as no later than early March) his full $5.125M must be added back onto the cap ... to be cap compliant they would have to move out AAV equal to what his replacement(s) accrued while Kane was out ... 4 months of Kane's AAV is $3M+ ... Is that correct? I just thought they had to be compliant on the day the player returns which would include the remaining cap hit (pro rated depending on the time left in the year) not the full cap hit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dlbalr Posted November 12, 2022 Author Share Posted November 12, 2022 56 minutes ago, Habs Fan in Edmonton said: Is that correct? I just thought they had to be compliant on the day the player returns which would include the remaining cap hit (pro rated depending on the time left in the year) not the full cap hit. It's semantics. If you're dealing with full-season numbers, the full cap hit has to be fit in. Technically, the calculation is by day in which case yes, they only have to factor in what's remaining but since that's based on the number of days left on the full-season cap hit, it's the same thing for all intents and purposes. Edmonton cannot make any sort of big acquisition to cover for Kane knowing that they need to be cap-compliant when they activate him. It has already been reported that they're going with internal recalls as a result and that they have no intention of adding anyone of consequence while Kane is out because he's going to be back down the stretch. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alfredoh2009 Posted November 15, 2022 Share Posted November 15, 2022 Ok, here is a trade proposal that I believe helps the Habs during the transition to the new core during the rebuild: To Edmonton: Armia ($3.4M until 2024), Norlinder and one of the depth Ds in Laval (Leskinen or Schueneman) To Montreal: Yamamoto ($3.1M until 2024) & Raphaël Lavoie EDM gets a depth winger with size, streaky scoring and great defensive/PK skills. EDM also gets a good D prospect that should thrive when he graduates to the NHL with them. They also get another D fir injury call ups and some depth for the playoffs MTL gets rid of a bit of cap salary, gets a smallish NHL F that they can trade later or play on a third line. They get a good F prospect in Lavoie to fill some of the roster spots when the aging CH wingers leave during the rebuild. A replacement to Hoffman/Drouin/Pitlick/etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GHT120 Posted November 15, 2022 Share Posted November 15, 2022 14 minutes ago, alfredoh2009 said: Ok, here is a trade proposal that I believe helps the Habs during the transition to the new core during the rebuild: To Edmonton: Armia ($3.4M until 2024), Norlinder and one of the depth Ds in Laval (Leskinen or Schueneman) To Montreal: Yamamoto ($3.1M until 2024) & Raphaël Lavoie EDM gets a depth winger with size, streaky scoring and great defensive/PK skills. EDM also gets a good D prospect that should thrive when he graduates to the NHL with them. They also get another D fir injury call ups and some depth for the playoffs MTL gets rid of a bit of cap salary, gets a smallish NHL F that they can trade later or play on a third line. They get a good F prospect in Lavoie to fill some of the roster spots when the aging CH wingers leave during the rebuild. A replacement to Hoffman/Drouin/Pitlick/etc. I very much like the concept ... but: Norlinder's strength is supposedly offence and he has 5 assists in 14 games, no goals ... not certain he will "thrive" anywhere in the NHL, at least until he shows he can THRIVE would in the AHL. not certain I would call Lavoie a "good" prospect, but that works in favour of them moving him. don't expect the Oilers would likley give up a 20-goal scorer last season, who is 5th in 5-on-5 TOI amongst forwards (and 4th on PK) for Armia ...if they want Armia, they might be more likley to move Warren Foegele (9th in 5-on-5 and no real ST role), who has another year at $2.75M But I would do the deal as proposed in an instant Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TurdBurglar Posted November 15, 2022 Share Posted November 15, 2022 2 hours ago, alfredoh2009 said: Ok, here is a trade proposal that I believe helps the Habs during the transition to the new core during the rebuild: To Edmonton: Armia ($3.4M until 2024), Norlinder and one of the depth Ds in Laval (Leskinen or Schueneman) To Montreal: Yamamoto ($3.1M until 2024) & Raphaël Lavoie EDM gets a depth winger with size, streaky scoring and great defensive/PK skills. EDM also gets a good D prospect that should thrive when he graduates to the NHL with them. They also get another D fir injury call ups and some depth for the playoffs MTL gets rid of a bit of cap salary, gets a smallish NHL F that they can trade later or play on a third line. They get a good F prospect in Lavoie to fill some of the roster spots when the aging CH wingers leave during the rebuild. A replacement to Hoffman/Drouin/Pitlick/etc. Yamamoto was one of few players on the Oiler's untouchable list going into the season. I haven't heard much about him since, so my assumption is he is still untouchable. To the best of my knowledge, Puljujarvi is the guy they still want to move and they are looking for cap flexibility. So, them taking on more cap space would also be a no-go, unless it's to replace some of Kane's offense, to which Armia doesn't do that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commandant Posted November 15, 2022 Share Posted November 15, 2022 Yamamoto has more offence than Armia so i dont see how this helps the Oilers with Kane down. That seems to be no for them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dlbalr Posted November 15, 2022 Author Share Posted November 15, 2022 4 hours ago, alfredoh2009 said: Ok, here is a trade proposal that I believe helps the Habs during the transition to the new core during the rebuild: To Edmonton: Armia ($3.4M until 2024), Norlinder and one of the depth Ds in Laval (Leskinen or Schueneman) To Montreal: Yamamoto ($3.1M until 2024) & Raphaël Lavoie EDM gets a depth winger with size, streaky scoring and great defensive/PK skills. EDM also gets a good D prospect that should thrive when he graduates to the NHL with them. They also get another D fir injury call ups and some depth for the playoffs MTL gets rid of a bit of cap salary, gets a smallish NHL F that they can trade later or play on a third line. They get a good F prospect in Lavoie to fill some of the roster spots when the aging CH wingers leave during the rebuild. A replacement to Hoffman/Drouin/Pitlick/etc. The Habs get what many would suggest is the better player and the better prospect...and the cheaper cap hit. I think Edmonton passes quite easily on that one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alfredoh2009 Posted November 15, 2022 Share Posted November 15, 2022 when I saw that Yamamoto missed a few games last week (?) after being boarded or hit in a borderline/dirty way, I thought that he may be targeted more easily than Caufield. just a thought. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commandant Posted November 17, 2022 Share Posted November 17, 2022 He played 52 out of 56 games in the covid shortened year. He played 81 out of 82 games last season. What is there to suggest that Yammamoto is being targetted? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Habs Fan in Edmonton Posted November 17, 2022 Share Posted November 17, 2022 On 11/15/2022 at 4:47 PM, alfredoh2009 said: when I saw that Yamamoto missed a few games last week (?) after being boarded or hit in a borderline/dirty way, I thought that he may be targeted more easily than Caufield. just a thought. Caulfield and Yamamoto are both small but Caufield is more solidly built. Plus Yamamoto really has to go to the dirty areas to be effective because he's not nearly the sniper Caufield is (not many are). Yamamoto does play with heart (he has to) and had a good year last year but he did benefit by playing a lot with Draisaitl who is as good a playmaker as there is in the NHL. I see Yamamoto as a guy who will wear down and wouldn't give up a lot for him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alfredoh2009 Posted November 17, 2022 Share Posted November 17, 2022 21 minutes ago, Habs Fan in Edmonton said: Caulfield and Yamamoto are both small but Caufield is more solidly built. Plus Yamamoto really has to go to the dirty areas to be effective because he's not nearly the sniper Caufield is (not many are). Yamamoto does play with heart (he has to) and had a good year last year but he did benefit by playing a lot with Draisaitl who is as good a playmaker as there is in the NHL. I see Yamamoto as a guy who will wear down and wouldn't give up a lot for him. I cannot find the video, I'll look later Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TurdBurglar Posted November 17, 2022 Share Posted November 17, 2022 Muzzin is being reevaluated February, but is expected to miss the rest of the season at least. Time for a proposal! To Toronto, Edmundson To Montreal, Liljergen 3rd/4th round pick Toronto gets a top-4 shut down defenseman making over $1m less than Muzzin. Reports are they aren’t picky on RD vs LD for replacing Muzzin. Montreal gets a young offensive RD with top-4 potential. Fixes the logjam of LD and makes Kovacevic the odd-man out once Matheson returns, Capfriendly has him listed as LD/RD. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomh009 Posted November 17, 2022 Share Posted November 17, 2022 Liljegren is mostly playing third pairing today but is this really enough of a D upgrade for the Leafs for them to take the deal? And if Liljegren is good, he'll be needing a big raise in a year and a half. I would suggest we start the package with someone like Topi Niemela, still 20yo and playing (well) in Finland. Helps our RHD prospect pipeline but more so in a few years, and his expensive years are much further out than Liljegren. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commandant Posted November 18, 2022 Share Posted November 18, 2022 4 hours ago, tomh009 said: Liljegren is mostly playing third pairing today but is this really enough of a D upgrade for the Leafs for them to take the deal? And if Liljegren is good, he'll be needing a big raise in a year and a half. I would suggest we start the package with someone like Topi Niemela, still 20yo and playing (well) in Finland. Helps our RHD prospect pipeline but more so in a few years, and his expensive years are much further out than Liljegren. Agree with this. Liljegren probably is what he is at this point, a third pair guy you can't trust in the top 4. Also with the return on Chiarot including a 1st rounder, I don't want a 3rd or 4th for Edmundson. Edmundson is a better player and isn't a pure rental and his contract is very good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TurdBurglar Posted November 18, 2022 Share Posted November 18, 2022 3 hours ago, Commandant said: Agree with this. Liljegren probably is what he is at this point, a third pair guy you can't trust in the top 4. Also with the return on Chiarot including a 1st rounder, I don't want a 3rd or 4th for Edmundson. Edmundson is a better player and isn't a pure rental and his contract is very good. A 23 year old defenseman with less than 100 games in the NHL, currently in his sophomore season in the NHL, is what he is? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commandant Posted November 18, 2022 Share Posted November 18, 2022 14 hours ago, TurdBurglar said: A 23 year old defenseman with less than 100 games in the NHL, currently in his sophomore season in the NHL, is what he is? None of what he showed at the AHL level suggested top 4 defenceman either. He's not the mega prospect he was heading into his 17 year old season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commandant Posted November 21, 2022 Share Posted November 21, 2022 McDavid 34p, Draisaitl 30p, Nuge 20p, Hyman 19p Evander kane has a long term injury so excluding him, the next highest oiler forward has 5 points (McLeod) Im not sure how they would make the money work and it might be later in the year but even when Kane is back the oilers need another scoring winger. Maybe a destination for Drouin or Dadanov as a rental.if either can score a little. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Chicoutimi Cucumber Posted November 27, 2022 Share Posted November 27, 2022 On 11/17/2022 at 11:45 AM, TurdBurglar said: Muzzin is being reevaluated February, but is expected to miss the rest of the season at least. Time for a proposal! To Toronto, Edmundson To Montreal, Liljergen 3rd/4th round pick Toronto gets a top-4 shut down defenseman making over $1m less than Muzzin. Reports are they aren’t picky on RD vs LD for replacing Muzzin. Montreal gets a young offensive RD with top-4 potential. Fixes the logjam of LD and makes Kovacevic the odd-man out once Matheson returns, Capfriendly has him listed as LD/RD. Normally, I disagree with the rule against trading between rivals. In the case of Toronto, though, I live in fear that any given year will finally be THE year when their undeniably excellent core finally breaks though and goes to the Finals. It’s a realistic risk. So sending them a playoff warrior/ stabilizing defenceman like Edmundson? Non merci. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DON Posted November 27, 2022 Share Posted November 27, 2022 I strongly feel, if Leafs-Boston-Sens-Wings-TB-Florida want any of Edmundson, Anderson, Hoffman, Drouin, Monahan, Wideman, Armia, Allen... it should be strongly considered, if makes sense for good value picks/prospects. No? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GHT120 Posted November 27, 2022 Share Posted November 27, 2022 12 minutes ago, DON said: I strongly feel, if Leafs-Boston-Sens-Wings-TB-Florida want any of Edmundson, Anderson, Hoffman, Drouin, Monahan, Wideman, Armia, Allen... it should be strongly considered, if makes sense for good value picks/prospects. No? YUP ... and if they want Hoffman or Armia we should start a GoFundMe for their limo to the airport and first class plane ticket. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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